Entrapment?

[MM27]

I don't see anything wrong with the police setting up these stings. If the people are truly innocent, they wouldn't be out looking to hook up and/or have sexual relations with a minor. Nobody forces them to call, email or show up at the house.

Ever see Bait Car? They drop cars in neighborhoods that can be remotely locked and shut down when someone steals them. They just leave them and wait for someone to hop in. If you don't want to get arrested, don't get in the car.

 

[Acklander]

From the articles posted, it looks like the police dept put up the ad, and then the people contacted the ad but e-mail, so that doesn't sound like entrapment IF the suspects made the first contact from seeing the ad. Now, when they made the contact, I'm going to assume the police waited for the suspects to make the offer to meet for sex with the underage boy/girl (and having confirmed in the e-mail that the person was underage) - if that happened, I wouldn't consider it entrapment.
That being said, I don't have a problem with them doing sting operations, if done properly - I'm sure it's a fine line they're dealing with, but I'm sure they were working in conjunction with the DA's office so that everything was on the up and up, otherwise it's just a waste of resources. I don't agree with sting operations on consenting adults or prostitution though - but I'm probably biased since I think prostitution should be legal.

 

[Jennasis]

While personally I have zero problem with stings or entrapment (whatever you gotta do to get these scumbags off the street), I too was under the impression that entrapment wasn't legal. I don't know what loophole the authorities use to get around the legal issue, but I am glad they do.

 

[plutotek]

Found this definition, and based on the elements listed, it doesn't appear the authorities did anything to entrap these perverts. They went looking for the opportunity to commit the crime, and that negates entrapment. As for the costs involved, I would think that the time/money spent is more than mitigated by the arrests and convictions of these individuals.

It's unfortunate that our society is more concerned about how a criminal is caught committing a criminal act than the fact they were committing a criminal act.

http://www.lectlaw.com/def/e024.htm

 

[LuvOrlando]

By no stretch of the imagination is this particular situation entrapment. There was a fake lure set up for sick twisted losers and the sick twisted losers who habitually go trolling for vulnerable kids not only took the bait on-line but went through the trouble of finding driving directions, got in their cars and drove to find this fictitious kid. To me what the police did is perfectly legal and to be honest, as a citizen I wouldn't give a hoot if they even blurred the lines to get this filth off the street... not that they did blur any, I'm just saying. If I sound like I'm being harsh turn it up by about 100 and that's how I really feel. As for the creeper who offed himself, you won't catch me shedding a tear. Few things in life turn my blood to stone cold ice faster then someone hurting a kid or thinking about it, or trying to find a way.

 

[Tinijocaro]

Every time we go to the store, we have the opportunity to steal but most of us don't.

Every time I teach, bad things could easily happen but that would never cross my mind.

Character is doing the right thing even when no one is looking.

I just watched a piece on the local news. The police set up a sting. They put an ad up on Craig's List offering sex with a minor girl. They only left the ad up for ten minutes, but managed to get 22 men to come to a location where they arrested them.

I know that police women go out on the street acting the part of prostitutes to get men to offer them money for sex.

While I think these men are sleazebags, these practices bother me. To me, it seems like entrapment. If they hadn't put the ad up on Craig's List, would all of these men have sought out underage girls for sex? No way to know, but probably not. If you put something like this out in front of someone, some people will go for it who might not have if it hadn't been put in their face.

The whole practice just doesn't seem right. To me, it's like putting a hundred dollar bill on a counter where people walk by. Somebody will pick it up. Does that mean that person is evil or would steal under other circumstances? I don't think so.

I have no sympathy for those caught, but I do think the whole practice used by the police seems shady.

 

[Acklander]

It's unfortunate that our society is more concerned about how a criminal is caught committing a criminal act than the fact they were committing a criminal act.

http://www.lectlaw.com/def/e024.htm

I believe the concern is, that if they didn't do it properly (i.e. used entrapment) then you haven't caught anyone. They will be let free with nothing on their record. so yes, I am concerned that the police actually do their job properly.

 

[Tinijocaro]

In no way, am I condoning the behavior of these men. I agree that they know what they are doing is wrong. I just have a problem with the police manufacturing the situations.

They are drawing out people who are already scumbags. Possibly preventing a real case of child rape. Bring them to the surface and get them off the streets!

 

[rie'smom]

The only problem that I have is that the men didn't have the heck beat of our them when they showed up.

 

[Imzadi]

The only problem that I have is that the men didn't have the heck beat of our them when they showed up.

That happens in prison by Bubba, later.

 

[happygirl]

OP I'm sorry I can't follow your logic. I really don't care how they got caught, I'm just glad they got caught. I hate when people use the word entrapment and police in the same sentence. You can't be trapped doing something bad if you don't do it The police can't make you do something bad.

 

[Handbag Lady]

I have NO problem with this whatsoever.

Any person who is willing to pay to have sex with a child needs to be arrested. I don't care how they catch him or her. If the criminals were not looking for underage sex, they wouldn't have found the ad. Guilty. I really hope they have very strong penalties for this. I couldn't care less if someone lost their job over this, either.

 

[jlewisinsyr]

I'm guessing the address to find the underage child wasn't released until the accused made it clear what they wanted, what they wanted to do, sent pictures (probably explicit, etc). Lets be honest, in most of these cases, the police know what they can and cannot say/do to avoid the entrapment clause.

To the one accused who said he was trying to talk her out of it, I call it what its, bull. When I was younger (24), a kid (aka Greg) who was 14 started to talk to me on gay.com. I made it clear, I had NO interest in him (sorry, not into children) but I'd be happy to talk to him (he had questions about being gay, etc.). He told me about meeting up with this 30 year old guy, who knew his age and they fooled around and were still meeting up occasionally. I was livid, not at Greg, but at the 30 year old. The kid tried to explain it away, that he initiated it, etc, but it didn't matter, the 30 year old guy should KNOW BETTER! He wouldn't tell me the guys name though (I would have no issues reporting it if I did). However, I was pretty rough on Greg and I had thought at the time I was helping make a difference in his life, even though it was just talking via text chats. Eventually he stopped talking to me, he was growing up and he also got annoyed a few times about how tough I was.

Now, many years later, I met Greg in person at a local club (he's 21 now). He realizes I was acting as his big brother now, trying to help him be a better person. He isn't the most well rounded kid and I think he's dealing with some of the issues from when he was younger. That said, I think I did help make a difference as he told me he stopped meeting up with the guy shortly after we started talking. He came out to his parents and started focusing on himself and trying to become a better person.

In short, I'm sorry, these guys knew what they were doing was wrong, if they really wanted to help the "kids" they would have tried to talk to them as adults, as mentors; not as sex toys.

 

[C.Ann]

I don't see this as being any different than undercover cops trying to score drugs or policewomen "posing" as prostitutes.. If it's gets these people off the streets, I'm all for it..

However, it sounds like this particular scenario wasn't followed through to the point where it's no longer considered entrapment, so all of those arrested will likely be set free..

 

[RitaZ.]

I don't think that is what he's saying. I believe he is saying what I am saying. Police resources are being used to set up manufactured situations to arrest people who have yet to commit a crime. Do we know that they would commit a crime if the situation were not set up? No.

This was not the same as a guy going out and finding an innocent child on the street. They put an ad in the paper advertising that a young girl wanted to have sex for money. It was a totally manufactured situation.

Manufactured or not, that's the kind of situation that they're looking for. Otherwise, they wouldn't be on CL looking for those specific ads. Pedophiles are out there looking and hoping to lure innocent victims to take advantage of them. On this occasion, they got caught before they found a real victim.

I have zero compassion for pedophiles. ZERO. For everyone one of them that is caught by police, there are many others that go unnoticed and that continue to harm innocent children.

 

[s____!]

I know that here in central fl that the Polk county sheriff sets up these stings quite regularly. I have no problem with the sting if they are positioning an underage girl but its been my understanding that several of his stings were adult men responding to adds by adult 'professional' women. While I know its still illegal to solicit (that's a whole other topic), I have a problem with this. In today's economy why is a municipality using tax dollars to setup this type of sting? Is it for the dollars they get from plea deals with big fines?

One of the first craigs list stings the sheriff did was 2 yrs ago and it captured my daughter's teacher. Again, I don't condone the illegal activity but this was a sweet man who was going thru an acrimonious divorce (they lived in my neighborhood so it was well known). As a lonely adult he made a stupid decision to engage in adult activities thru craigs list - and went a couple of counties away to probably keep the gossip from spreading locally. I felt horrible, he lost his teaching job immediately and now has a record- and lost any chance of custody of his kids. I don't think that it is necessary for the police department to search for adults who are not pedophiles in this manner.

I don't think they should be going after adults looking for adults, either. But I'm also the type who believes that prostitution shouldn't be illegal at all. If people want to sell their bodies, they're going to whether it's legal or not. If people want to pay for sex, they'll pay for it whether it's legal or not.

Pedos, however, should be shown no mercy. It doesn't matter how close to legal the girl/guy is they're trying to be with. They need to find someone their own age and quit being nasty.

 

[rie'smom]

I'm guessing the address to find the underage child wasn't released until the accused made it clear what they wanted, what they wanted to do, sent pictures (probably explicit, etc). Lets be honest, in most of these cases, the police know what they can and cannot say/do to avoid the entrapment clause.

To the one accused who said he was trying to talk her out of it, I call it what its, bull. When I was younger (24), a kid (aka Greg) who was 14 started to talk to me on gay.com. I made it clear, I had NO interest in him (sorry, not into children) but I'd be happy to talk to him (he had questions about being gay, etc.). He told me about meeting up with this 30 year old guy, who knew his age and they fooled around and were still meeting up occasionally. I was livid, not at Greg, but at the 30 year old. The kid tried to explain it away, that he initiated it, etc, but it didn't matter, the 30 year old guy should KNOW BETTER! He wouldn't tell me the guys name though (I would have no issues reporting it if I did). However, I was pretty rough on Greg and I had thought at the time I was helping make a difference in his life, even though it was just talking via text chats. Eventually he stopped talking to me, he was growing up and he also got annoyed a few times about how tough I was.

Now, many years later, I met Greg in person at a local club (he's 21 now). He realizes I was acting as his big brother now, trying to help him be a better person. He isn't the most well rounded kid and I think he's dealing with some of the issues from when he was younger. That said, I think I did help make a difference as he told me he stopped meeting up with the guy shortly after we started talking. He came out to his parents and started focusing on himself and trying to become a better person.

In short, I'm sorry, these guys knew what they were doing was wrong, if they really wanted to help the "kids" they would have tried to talk to them as adults, as mentors; not as sex toys.

Thank-you for being there for Greg.

 

[plutotek]

I believe the concern is, that if they didn't do it properly (i.e. used entrapment) then you haven't caught anyone. They will be let free with nothing on their record. so yes, I am concerned that the police actually do their job properly.

And my point is we, as a society, have hamstrung our law enforcement personnel's ability to effectively do their jobs; more concerned about the rights of offenders. However, in this particular case, the offender's initiated contact through the ad, which negates the first element of entrapment.

However, it sounds like this particular scenario wasn't followed through to the point where it's no longer considered entrapment, so all of those arrested will likely be set free..

See above.....

 

[dreamin_disney]

With all the stories I hear about human sex trafficking I'm glad police are setting up string like this. If perverts werent out looking for this then they wouldnt have so many aresst in such a small amount of time. Some of the stories I've seen on tv, and the newspaper shocked me and didnt realize this was going on. Kids and teens are being kidnapped for human sex trafficking. Kids and teens are being lured by the interent friend for the same reason once they get lured by people they think are friends or a boyfriend its to late. Reports show the kids and teens are given drug so they are so far out of it. Now when i see posters of Missing kids or run away teens i stop and think could they be a victim of this horrible crime.

now some of these recurts are going into schools and making friends then turning them over to pimps and such. they ended up being report as runaways because their parent dont know what really happend.There was a true story show about a 16 yr old girl. She made friends with a girl from school. This girl lived with her mom and her mom didnt just let her run wild. oneday after being asked if she could spend the night with her friends the mom said no. The girls school friend had her dad come ask the mom and say he owned condos ( i think) and the girls could earn extra money cleaning the sites. Well the girls dad seems nice and the mother said ok. Turned out it wasnt the school friends dad but the guy she worked for. The girls went to a house they gave her some water that was drugged. After that she told the story that she was given lots of drugs and she was raped over and over by different John's going in one after another. Her parents searched for her and the cops wouldnt really budge cause she was considered a runaway. Then oneday she was sold to a man on the internet in another state. He picked her up and she was outta of it. They stopped at a convient store and the girls brother happend to see her and went to help her etc. Anyways she had STD in her throat and so on. They showed her talking at the end and I was amazed how strong she was to be able to talk about it. My heart went out to her. Her story made me aware of this issue. Then my local newspaper started running stories about this happening to girls in other cities not so far from my home.

I say sometimes you have to set up stings because these perverts arent wearing T-shirt annoucing a warning. If its posted as a minor and they get in their car and drive overthere then arrest them. They are lucky their names and phtos arent published in the news and paper. I wish we had more programs like catch a predetor.

 

[Geoff_M]

However, in this particular case, the offender's initiated contact through the ad, which negates the first element of entrapment.

I'm not claiming this sting was entrapment, but the fact that someone answers an ad doesn't automatically make it not entrapment. Here's what I think would be a counter-example:
1) The police take out an ad claiming that they are a 14 year-old female looking for "friendship". Since the police need to be able to show that the idea for the criminal act originated with the perp, they aren't likely to take out an ad that explicitly states that a minor is looking for a romantic relationship with an adult.
2) A 25 year-old man answers the ad saying he'd like to be her "friend".
3) The police officer posing as the minor then has a series of e-mail exchanges with the man that ends with the officer aggressively suggesting that the man come see "her" for a night of romance. After expressing reluctance, the man agrees in the end.
4) The man shows up and is arrested.
I think a lawyer could claim entrapment as a defense if this set of events happened.

However, the article states that the police vetted their approach with the State AG. Therefore, it's likely that they took out a vague ad that would get the attention of pedophiles, engaged in non-specific "flirting" with the men (including sending them a photo that would clearly show they are under age) that answered the ad, waited for them to suggest an illegal encounter, agreed to the encounter once suggested by providing a time and place, and then arrested them with they walked through the door. That scenario would be pretty iron-clad against charges of entrapment.