Entrapment?

[christineann]

Under no circumstances should a man or woman even consider having sex with a child. An adult is responsible for his or her actions no matter what is supposedly or even actually "offered" by a child.

The removal of pedophiles from the community is, to put it gently, beneficial.

 

[LisaR]

I just watched a piece on the local news. The police set up a sting. They put an ad up on Craig's List offering sex with a minor girl. They only left the ad up for ten minutes, but managed to get 22 men to come to a location where they arrested them.

I know that police women go out on the street acting the part of prostitutes to get men to offer them money for sex.

While I think these men are sleazebags, these practices bother me. To me, it seems like entrapment. If they hadn't put the ad up on Craig's List, would all of these men have sought out underage girls for sex? No way to know, but probably not. If you put something like this out in front of someone, some people will go for it who might not have if it hadn't been put in their face.

The whole practice just doesn't seem right. To me, it's like putting a hundred dollar bill on a counter where people walk by. Somebody will pick it up. Does that mean that person is evil or would steal under other circumstances? I don't think so.

I have no sympathy for those caught, but I do think the whole practice used by the police seems shady.

WHAT????

These "men" and I use that term loosely, were actively looking for some action. If they hadn't come upon that ad on Craigslist, they would have come across another one somewhere on the web.

Even if they just happened to stumble across the ad and they truly weren't looking, they still showed up under their own free will. Instead of reporting the ad to the police or ignoring it, they showed up wanting sex with a minor. Sick *******s.

 

[Tink888]

I just watched a piece on the local news. The police set up a sting. They put an ad up on Craig's List offering sex with a minor girl. They only left the ad up for ten minutes, but managed to get 22 men to come to a location where they arrested them.

I know that police women go out on the street acting the part of prostitutes to get men to offer them money for sex.

While I think these men are sleazebags, these practices bother me. To me, it seems like entrapment. If they hadn't put the ad up on Craig's List, would all of these men have sought out underage girls for sex? No way to know, but probably not. If you put something like this out in front of someone, some people will go for it who might not have if it hadn't been put in their face.

The whole practice just doesn't seem right. To me, it's like putting a hundred dollar bill on a counter where people walk by. Somebody will pick it up. Does that mean that person is evil or would steal under other circumstances? I don't think so.

I have no sympathy for those caught, but I do think the whole practice used by the police seems shady.

I agree that without the ad maybe some of these men might never have solicited sex from underage girls. On the other hand, without the ad, who's to say that one of these men wouldn't encounter an underage girl at the park and act then if the opportunity presented itself? I'd rather have them caught in a sting where the only life ruined is their own as opposed to playing a waiting game for a real victim and ruining an innocent life as well.

The bottom line for me is that we all know the difference between right and wrong and we all have free will as to whether or not to act. They chose to act.

 

[krcit]

WHAT????

These "men" and I use that term loosely, were actively looking for some action. If they hadn't come upon that ad on Craigslist, they would have come across another one somewhere on the web.

Even if they just happened to stumble across the ad and they truly weren't looking, they still showed up under their own free will. Instead of reporting the ad to the police or ignoring it, they showed up wanting sex with a minor. Sick *******s.

Seriously. I have 2 teenage girls...what if instead of these pervs going on CL, they troll Facebook or other teen sites and befriend a real kid?? If a guy(or girl) is normal then they wouldn't be trolling websited looking for kids to have sex with. Makes me sick, no entrapment about it and you know what? Could care less if it was because there is nothing in the world that could 'entrap' me to approach a child for sex.

 

[Mrs. Darcy]

If a married man stops at a bar to have an innocent drink after work and a floozie propositioned him and he slept with her, he'd still be guilty of adultery. When I used to to bars in college, girls would play this game seeing how many married men they can at least get a make-out session with (and sometimes more) before the end of the night. It's 100% the guy's fault in my example and in Feralpeg's example. They did it. They pay the price for it. No one forced them to make a very bad decision.

 

[DaParkers]

I agree, it is entrapment. But, I don't care. As a matter of fact, I love the show bait car. Sometimes they catch people that wouldn't have stolen a car in other situations, but just couldn't resist the temptation. Still, I don't care. You could drop a 20 lb crack rock in front of me and I wouldn't smoke or sell it. Same with an idle idling car or teenage child.

 

[Geoff_M]

I agree, it is entrapment. But, I don't care. As a matter of fact, I love the show bait car.

"Bait cars" clearly are not entrapment. The courts have held that providing the means to commit a crime is not automatically entrapment. Now, if an undercover cop went up to a guy on the street, pointed to the bait car and urged him to try and steal it, then that'd be another story.

 

[Iheartdis]

They didn't leave the underage girls out on a sidewalk, these scumbags had to be looking for the ad, respond to the ad and go the location. All of those things willingly.
At no point did they stop and say, I shouldn't look for this ad, read this ad, respond to this ad, go to this location. It wasn't a spontaneous 'hey look at the underage girl all alone wanting me', it was more methodical on the part of the sleazebags.

I totally agree with everything you said. Also, in my opinion, pedophiles are the types of people who can never be rehabilitated and just can't resist the temptation of things like these ads. Obviously if they showed up at the location, they were hoping it was going to happen and if it weren't for police stings like this, it WOULD'VE happened. As far as I'm concerned, they got their just desserts.

 

[WDWBlue]

In no way, am I condoning the behavior of these men. I agree that they know what they are doing is wrong. I just have a problem with the police manufacturing the situations.

Given that train of thought, what if the police were to set alcohol out at an area frequented by teens to lure the teens into drinking underage so they could arrest them? Wouldn't that be wrong? Yes, the teens would know what they were doing was wrong, but the police would be manufacturing the situation.

I don't approve of the behavior of those caught and have no sympathy for them. I just feel the police are going a bit to far to make the arrests.

To follow your logic, the police would have to go these guy's homes or offices and have a decoy present herself, "Hi I'm 13 and want to have sex." Then I might think about this being entrapment. Otherwise, no.

In the situation you describe which did occur, the men had to do something, many things actually, to get the point where they committed a crime. I don't see the entrapment.

 

[goofy4prez]

I have no sympathy for these maggots who troll on the Internet looking for underage girls for sex. IMHO it is not entrapment. I believe they should lock these guys up for several years.

And for the idiots who actually do commit a sexual crime against a child I think they should castrate the scum and shove the "tool" down the back of their throats. I am so fed up with repeat offenders given the chance time and time again to ruin a childs life.

 

[NEM]

And if they dont catch these pedophiles this way, then how else do they get them?

Do they wait for them to actually violate a child before they are arrested? It takes A LOT of energy, time and forethought to find this ad, arrange a meeting and actually drive to the decided location for something that was defined as a sexual encounter of some sort with a child. I don't think it is entrapment.

These men were clearly looking for something and they found it pretty darn quickly if they ad was up for such a short time... so they thought...the fact that it was the police taking them off the street and not a "real" child, is a blessing.

By your logic, the only way to get these guys is to wait for them to violate a child.

That is not acceptable risk to me.

 

[wdwmom0f3]

I don't have a problem with this at all because if they were not looking for this, it wouldn't have happened. I say do whatever it takes to get these creeps off of the streets.

They do these "stings" in our area too, and I live in a very small town. The man who handles this was telling me that routinely work the Internet posing as 12 to 13 year old girls, they have several arrests a month from men coming from a nearby bigger city to meet a girl here for, you know what.

He said once there was a man who had roses and food in the car, but in the trunk he had duck tape, rope, trash bags and things like that. He said that there is no telling what would have happened if this had been a real child.

I don't think that people like this can be rehabilitated either.

 

[wdwmom0f3]

And if they dont catch these pedophiles this way, then how else do they get them?

Do they wait for them to actually violate a child before they are arrested? It takes A LOT of energy, time and forethought to find this ad, arrange a meeting and actually drive to the decided location for something that was defined as a sexual encounter of some sort with a child. I don't think it is entrapment.

These men were clearly looking for something and they found it pretty darn quickly if they ad was up for such a short time... so they thought...the fact that it was the police taking them off the street and not a "real" child, is a blessing.

By your logic, the only way to get these guys is to wait for them to violate a child.

That is not acceptable risk to me.

I totally agree!

 

[Feralpeg]

Just to make things perfectly clear, I have no sympathy for the men caught. I just wonder how close they come to crossing a fine line in setting up these situations. I am in no way support the rights of child molesters!

 

[NotUrsula]

Yes, it is a fine line setting these things up to avoid losing the conviction on a technicality, but in most cases where there is a major sting operation, it is set up VERY carefully to make sure that that does not happen. Geoff is correct; if the officers followed every rule and made sure that they had documentation that the criminal act was proposed strictly by the adult, then it isn't entrapment.

Normally this type of "ad" isn't a banner ad that just pops up on the screen of every visitor to a site. It is a standard classified ad that you have to search to find. Yes, occasionally you will get a do-gooder looking for such ads to try to rescue kids, but if that is the case the email trail should show that intent, and normally the "child" isn't going to give the meeting information to someone whose emails are indicating that kind of intent.

The one time I could see a situation where an innocent party led on the "child" to think he was for real when he wasn't so as to meet the child in person for rescue reasons might be if someone was actively searching for a particular runaway and had reason to believe that the "child" either was that runaway or knew that runaway. In a case like that the police would have a missing persons report on file that would back up the story.

 

[SookieStackhouse]

Sounds a lot like that thing Dateline used to do with Chris Hansen... they are creepers if they are entertaining the idea of doing such a thing. Nothing wrong with using such means to catch predators.

 

[plutotek]

Normally this type of "ad" isn't a banner ad that just pops up on the screen of every visitor to a site. It is a standard classified ad that you have to search to find. Yes, occasionally you will get a do-gooder looking for such ads to try to rescue kids, but if that is the case the email trail should show that intent, and normally the "child" isn't going to give the meeting information to someone whose emails are indicating that kind of intent.

EXACTLY!! This was just one of a large number of similar ads that these individuals went looking for, and it was their bad luck that they chose the one with the cops on the other end. The cops did not direct them to the ad through eny extraordinary means, which negates any claim of entrapment on it's face.

Quite honestly, even if the cops had some way to direct them to the site, I still wouldn't have a problem with the arrests. We give way too much concern to the rights of criminals.

 

[mdsoccermom]

I just watched a piece on the local news. The police set up a sting. They put an ad up on Craig's List offering sex with a minor girl. They only left the ad up for ten minutes, but managed to get 22 men to come to a location where they arrested them.

I know that police women go out on the street acting the part of prostitutes to get men to offer them money for sex.

While I think these men are sleazebags, these practices bother me. To me, it seems like entrapment. If they hadn't put the ad up on Craig's List, would all of these men have sought out underage girls for sex? No way to know, but probably not. If you put something like this out in front of someone, some people will go for it who might not have if it hadn't been put in their face.

The whole practice just doesn't seem right. To me, it's like putting a hundred dollar bill on a counter where people walk by. Somebody will pick it up. Does that mean that person is evil or would steal under other circumstances? I don't think so.

I have no sympathy for those caught, but I do think the whole practice used by the police seems shady.

Yes, they would have. They would have answered another ad. A person that found and responded to that ad had to LOOK for it willingly, as another person said. They had to make a conscious decision to sit down on the computer, get onto Craigs List, and search ads for underage girls. So, if this ad wasn't there, they would have searched for another.

 

[Geoff_M]

The cops did not direct them to the ad through eny extraordinary means, which negates any claim of entrapment on it's face.

Again, no it doesn't necessarily. Particularly if there's no explicit offer of an illegal act with a minor contained in the ad text... which the police generally avoid doing lest it aid in an entrapment defense.

I want these people off the streets as much as the next person, but that doesn't absolve the police from "doing it right" in a manner that doesn't result in the people being set free due to improper police conduct.

 

[IdesOmarch]

Are you saying that adult men having sex with children is a non-violent crime that doesn't wreck other people's lives and thus shouldn't be a priority for law enforcement?

That's how I'm reading this, that you think that pedophilia is not a big deal.

Please tell me I'm wrong.

No I wasn't saying that, but they did not have sex with a minor, they were soliciting sex.