Entrapment?

[Feralpeg]

I just watched a piece on the local news. The police set up a sting. They put an ad up on Craig's List offering sex with a minor girl. They only left the ad up for ten minutes, but managed to get 22 men to come to a location where they arrested them.

I know that police women go out on the street acting the part of prostitutes to get men to offer them money for sex.

While I think these men are sleazebags, these practices bother me. To me, it seems like entrapment. If they hadn't put the ad up on Craig's List, would all of these men have sought out underage girls for sex? No way to know, but probably not. If you put something like this out in front of someone, some people will go for it who might not have if it hadn't been put in their face.

The whole practice just doesn't seem right. To me, it's like putting a hundred dollar bill on a counter where people walk by. Somebody will pick it up. Does that mean that person is evil or would steal under other circumstances? I don't think so.

I have no sympathy for those caught, but I do think the whole practice used by the police seems shady.

 

[rainy~daze]

I just watched a piece on the local news. The police set up a sting. They put an ad up on Craig's List offering sex with a minor girl. They only left the ad up for ten minutes, but managed to get 22 men to come to a location where they arrested them.

I know that police women go out on the street acting the part of prostitutes to get men to offer them money for sex.

While I think these men are sleazebags, these practices bother me. To me, it seems like entrapment. If they hadn't put the ad up on Craig's List, would all of these men have sought out underage girls for sex? No way to know, but probably not. If you put something like this out in front of someone, some people will go for it who might not have if it hadn't been put in their face.

The whole practice just doesn't seem right. To me, it's like putting a hundred dollar bill on a counter where people walk by. Somebody will pick it up. Does that mean that person is evil or would steal under other circumstances? I don't think so.

I have no sympathy for those caught, but I do think the whole practice used by the police seems shady.

They didn't leave the underage girls out on a sidewalk, these scumbags had to be looking for the ad, respond to the ad and go the location. All of those things willingly.
At no point did they stop and say, I shouldn't look for this ad, read this ad, respond to this ad, go to this location. It wasn't a spontaneous 'hey look at the underage girl all alone wanting me', it was more methodical on the part of the sleazebags.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

I just watched a piece on the local news. The police set up a sting. They put an ad up on Craig's List offering sex with a minor girl. They only left the ad up for ten minutes, but managed to get 22 men to come to a location where they arrested them.

I know that police women go out on the street acting the part of prostitutes to get men to offer them money for sex.

While I think these men are sleazebags, these practices bother me. To me, it seems like entrapment. If they hadn't put the ad up on Craig's List, would all of these men have sought out underage girls for sex? No way to know, but probably not. If you put something like this out in front of someone, some people will go for it who might not have if it hadn't been put in their face.

The whole practice just doesn't seem right. To me, it's like putting a hundred dollar bill on a counter where people walk by. Somebody will pick it up. Does that mean that person is evil or would steal under other circumstances? I don't think so.

I have no sympathy for those caught, but I do think the whole practice used by the police seems shady.

Would it be OK, if they were going to sell drugs or weapons?

 

[jpdeg99]

That's some jacked-up logic. So it's not that bad to try to have sex with an underage girl if you weren't looking for it, but rather, the opportunity just presented itself? Seriously? You are suggestng the cops shouldnt do that because the guys they arrest may not have done that anyway? Yeah, If you put that out in front of someone, they may go for it. Those are called pedophiles. It's a good thing to catch them.

 

[Hillbeans]

I just watched a piece on the local news. The police set up a sting. They put an ad up on Craig's List offering sex with a minor girl. They only left the ad up for ten minutes, but managed to get 22 men to come to a location where they arrested them.

I know that police women go out on the street acting the part of prostitutes to get men to offer them money for sex.

While I think these men are sleazebags, these practices bother me. To me, it seems like entrapment. If they hadn't put the ad up on Craig's List, would all of these men have sought out underage girls for sex? No way to know, but probably not. If you put something like this out in front of someone, some people will go for it who might not have if it hadn't been put in their face.

The whole practice just doesn't seem right. To me, it's like putting a hundred dollar bill on a counter where people walk by. Somebody will pick it up. Does that mean that person is evil or would steal under other circumstances? I don't think so.

I have no sympathy for those caught, but I do think the whole practice used by the police seems shady.

Interesting...I remember the Chris Hansen days from Dateline "To catch a Predator" where some of the people wouldn't actually come in the house but walk by or drive by but they still got arrested because they got tracked back to their computer screen name I think.

I don't imagine you'd just stumble on to an ad like that, let alone stumble on the ad, drive to the location at the exact time. I think one of the people on Chris Hansen's show ended up committing suicide after it aired.

 

[Feralpeg]

In no way, am I condoning the behavior of these men. I agree that they know what they are doing is wrong. I just have a problem with the police manufacturing the situations.

Given that train of thought, what if the police were to set alcohol out at an area frequented by teens to lure the teens into drinking underage so they could arrest them? Wouldn't that be wrong? Yes, the teens would know what they were doing was wrong, but the police would be manufacturing the situation.

I don't approve of the behavior of those caught and have no sympathy for them. I just feel the police are going a bit to far to make the arrests.

 

[bdcp]

These pedophiles are making a choice and they KNOW it's illegal. Also, as for your example of $100 bill being left out on a counter, if someone takes it, it's still stealing.

Sorry, but they get what they deserve. No one forced them.

Entrapment is just a buzz word that people use when they don't like the fact they got caught doing something they shouldn't have.

 

[EveDallas]

In no way, am I condoning the behavior of these men. I agree that they know what they are doing is wrong. I just have a problem with the police manufacturing the situations.

Given that train of thought, what if the police were to set alcohol out at an area frequented by teens to lure the teens into drinking underage so they could arrest them? Wouldn't that be wrong? Yes, the teens would know what they were doing was wrong, but the police would be manufacturing the situation.

I don't approve of the behavior of those caught and have no sympathy for them. I just feel the police are going a bit to far to make the arrests.

No, it wouldn't be wrong. The teens would know that drinking underage is a crime, no matter what. Using that logic, a parent couldn't keep beer in the fridge either.

 

[tasha99]

I get what you're saying. It's not that I don't think it's okay for police to do that, but I was under the impression that they couldn't. That's why (at least on tv shows) you see them trying to get the other person to suggest the illegal activity rather than having the police offer it.

 

[IdesOmarch]

I tend to agree with FeralPeg, plus if a judge does deem it entrapment, they will get off. I don't have sympathy for them, and they all probably should have been arrested, but it is pretty much entrapment, and I've seen cases similar that a judge ruled just that, so they got off. Point is its lazy police tactics that may all end up being a waste of tax payer money. And I also think the police have a lot more important things to do like stopping rampant violent crime, robbery, murder and rape, than trying to track down men soliciting sex.

The police will bend over backwards to arrest someone with a pot seed on the floor of their car, but someone that just killed someone in a drunk driving accident gets off. Drives me crazy. I think we need to do some serious prioritization with our police resources, lay off the drug and non-violent crimes and focus on the things that wreck other people's lives, like murder, robbery, rape etc.

 

[Mickey'snewestfan]

I tend to agree with FeralPeg, plus if a judge does deem it entrapment, they will get off. I don't have sympathy for them, and they all probably should have been arrested, but it is pretty much entrapment, and I've seen cases similar that a judge ruled just that, so they got off. Point is its lazy police tactics that may all end up being a waste of tax payer money. And I also think the police have a lot more important things to do like stopping rampant violent crime, robbery, murder and rape, than trying to track down men soliciting sex.

The police will bend over backwards to arrest someone with a pot seed on the floor of their car, but someone that just killed someone in a drunk driving accident gets off. Drives me crazy. I think we need to do some serious prioritization with our police resources, lay off the drug and non-violent crimes and focus on the things that wreck other people's lives, like murder, robbery, rape etc.

Are you saying that adult men having sex with children is a non-violent crime that doesn't wreck other people's lives and thus shouldn't be a priority for law enforcement?

That's how I'm reading this, that you think that pedophilia is not a big deal.

Please tell me I'm wrong.

 

[Imzadi]

What's the difference if the police woman/prostitutes on the street corner and the Craigslist ad? They are both advertising they are available for very specific things.

From what little I know about the police woman setup, the men have to bring up the idea of the money, not the cops - or that would be entrapment.

In the Craiglist setup: A guy is just going to randomly show up at the house at just the exact moment that they are trying to arrest a few, and actually be from the gas company, there to check the meter?

I would think the police would also wait to be sure the men to suggest something to the underage/undercover gals FIRST, to make sure they aren't the accidental gas meter man showing up at the wrong time.

 

[Feralpeg]

Are you saying that adult men having sex with children is a non-violent crime that doesn't wreck other people's lives and thus shouldn't be a priority for law enforcement?

That's how I'm reading this, that you think that pedophilia is not a big deal.

Please tell me I'm wrong.

I don't think that is what he's saying. I believe he is saying what I am saying. Police resources are being used to set up manufactured situations to arrest people who have yet to commit a crime. Do we know that they would commit a crime if the situation were not set up? No.

This was not the same as a guy going out and finding an innocent child on the street. They put an ad in the paper advertising that a young girl wanted to have sex for money. It was a totally manufactured situation.

 

[Feralpeg]

What's the difference if the police woman/prostitutes on the street corner and the Craigslist ad? They are both advertising they are available for very specific things.

From what little I know about the police woman setup, the men have to bring up the idea of the money, not the cops - or that would be entrapment.

In the Craiglist setup: A guy is just going to randomly show up at the house at just the exact moment that they are trying to arrest a few, and actually be from the gas company, there to check the meter?

I would think the police would also wait to be sure the men to suggest something to the underage/undercover gals FIRST, to make sure they aren't the accidental gas meter man showing up at the wrong time.

Actually, they showed video of a couple of the arrests. As soon as the men reached the front door of the house, three police officers jumped on them and wrestled them to the ground. The men never said a thing before this happend.

An interesting sideline, none of the men arrested has ever been arrested for any type of sex crime before. Most have no prior arrest records at all. One of the men arrested is a Universal security guard.

 

[Imzadi]

Actually, they showed video of a couple of the arrests. As soon as the men reached the front door of the house, three police officers jumped on them and wrestled them to the ground. The men never said a thing before this happend.

Uh oh. Sounds like somebody jumped the gun - or in this case, the men. Yeah, this isn't going to go down well.

 

[Nancy F]

In no way, am I condoning the behavior of these men. I agree that they know what they are doing is wrong. I just have a problem with the police manufacturing the situations.

Given that train of thought, what if the police were to set alcohol out at an area frequented by teens to lure the teens into drinking underage so they could arrest them? Wouldn't that be wrong? Yes, the teens would know what they were doing was wrong, but the police would be manufacturing the situation.

I don't approve of the behavior of those caught and have no sympathy for them. I just feel the police are going a bit to far to make the arrests.

Better they get caught in a sting than be able to actually buy a kid on line.
Nancy

 

[leight]

I know that here in central fl that the Polk county sheriff sets up these stings quite regularly. I have no problem with the sting if they are positioning an underage girl but its been my understanding that several of his stings were adult men responding to adds by adult 'professional' women. While I know its still illegal to solicit (that's a whole other topic), I have a problem with this. In today's economy why is a municipality using tax dollars to setup this type of sting? Is it for the dollars they get from plea deals with big fines?

One of the first craigs list stings the sheriff did was 2 yrs ago and it captured my daughter's teacher. Again, I don't condone the illegal activity but this was a sweet man who was going thru an acrimonious divorce (they lived in my neighborhood so it was well known). As a lonely adult he made a stupid decision to engage in adult activities thru craigs list - and went a couple of counties away to probably keep the gossip from spreading locally. I felt horrible, he lost his teaching job immediately and now has a record- and lost any chance of custody of his kids. I don't think that it is necessary for the police department to search for adults who are not pedophiles in this manner.

 

[Geoff_M]

I think the question of entrapment would depend on how the ad was phrased. If it was an open ended request for a "hookup" by a supposed underage girl without reference to wanting adult males, then I'd say that it probably would pass legal muster. The key to entrapment is that the genesis of the illegal act needs to be with the person arrested. As for the aforementioned streetwalker stings, even they can't just walk up to a John's car and say "Would you like to do X for $40?" The idea of paying for the act has to be first expressed by the John. And, IIRC, in the case of on-line chat stings, again, the idea of "getting together" needs to be first expressed by the perp.

 

[Feralpeg]

I know that here in central fl that the Polk county sheriff sets up these stings quite regularly. I have no problem with the sting if they are positioning an underage girl but its been my understanding that several of his stings were adult men responding to adds by adult 'professional' women. While I know its still illegal to solicit (that's a whole other topic), I have a problem with this. In today's economy why is a municipality using tax dollars to setup this type of sting? Is it for the dollars they get from plea deals with big fines?

One of the first craigs list stings the sheriff did was 2 yrs ago and it captured my daughter's teacher. Again, I don't condone the illegal activity but this was a sweet man who was going thru an acrimonious divorce (they lived in my neighborhood so it was well known). As a lonely adult he made a stupid decision to engage in adult activities thru craigs list - and went a couple of counties away to probably keep the gossip from spreading locally. I felt horrible, he lost his teaching job immediately and now has a record- and lost any chance of custody of his kids. I don't think that it is necessary for the police department to search for adults who are not pedophiles in this manner.

That's sad. In the current sting, the police immediately notified Universal that they had arrested one of their employees. Even if this does not pan out, that man has lost his job.

It was wrong of the teacher to try to buy sex. It is even more wrong of the men arrested today to try to purchase underage sex. A stupid decision may have ruined the lives of these men.

 

[palmtreegirl]

Here's a link about the story-

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...rrests-sumter-20110323,0,6113382.story?page=1

BUSHNELL — A security guard at Universal Studios, a couple from Lake County and 19 others from across the state were arrested during an undercover sex sting in which detectives posed as children online, the Sumter County Sheriff's Office announced today.

Suspects from Celebration, Clermont, Kissimmee, Ocala and Jacksonville converged on this rural county an hour west of Orlando in hopes of having sex with 14-year-old boys and girls, officials said.

"It was very fruitful, I hate to say," Sheriff Bill Farmer said during a news conference at his headquarters. "How many more are out there doing this to the children of this state and getting away with it? The sheriffs of this state are tired of it."

In all, deputies netted 21 men and one woman—ages 20 to 59—in the sting, charging them with 50 felonies and three misdemeanors.

Among the arrested are Universal Studios security guard Marco Pirrongelli, 37, of Tampa and a Lake County couple, Daniel Burnett and Trisha Curtis, both of Lady Lake.
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Pirrongelli was suspended, a Universal spokesman said today.

University of South Florida student Ishan Howard, 20, of Tampa and Leesburg Regional Medical Center technician David Goldberg, 47, of Weirsdale also were arrested.

The takedowns took place at a Wildwood home outfitted for the week-long operation, said Lt. Kevin Hofecker and, were similar to investigations on the NBC investigative show Dateline's "To Catch a Predator."

Undercover deputies communicated with individuals through email, text, and phone calls with those that responded to Craigslist ads, sending them age-regressed pictures of Sheriff's Office employees.

Once they took a step inside the home, deputies pounced. Many of the suspects were spooked and tried to run away.

One man, Willie Holmes of Clermont, wailed loudly as deputies handcuffed and searched the 20-year-old Walmart cashier.

"I've never been in any trouble or anything. I swear to God," said 26-year-old Elie Maroun of Tampa while on the verge of tears. "I have two sisters. I wouldn't do anything to a girl like that. I was going to talk her out of it. I swear to God."

Hofecker said many of the arrestees did not have criminal records and none of them were registered sex offenders.

"They have been flying under the radar," he said, but, "It's our understanding that this isn't the first time these people have done this."

No weapons were found on any of them but deputies confiscated phones, laptops, GPS units, condoms and six cars.

Detectives decided to conduct the sting this past week because it was Spring Break for the county's schoolchildren — a detail the undercover officers noted while posing as children to entice the suspects.

All of the suspects were taken to the Sumter County Detention Center but only 14 remain in custody, officials said.

They were charged with a variety of crimes including traveling to meet a minor and use of internet to solicit or entice a parent, guardian, custodian or child for sex.

Their bonds totaled more than $1.2 million.

Hofecker said detectives consulted the State Attorney's office before planning the operation to avoid any legal snares—particularly charges of entrapment.

"It was clear from the start what their motives were," he said. "It's a fine line but we made sure they took the first step."

I give the police-

Some more links from different sources-

http://www.wesh.com/news/27279188/detail.html

http://www.wftv.com/news/27279247/detail.html

They all have video as well.