Enthusiastic about Genie+ touring

[dunkindonut]

I would rather know my schedule 30 days ahead then have to make it on the fly.

 

[Sinder]

Here is what I think you and many others are missing. Yes, you're losing a free cruddy system, but it's being replaced by a cheap excellent system.

Especially at DHS and Epcot, you were getting only 1 good FP per day. How often did I have to accept a FP for Muppetvision or other attractions where it was totally worthless. Unless you had a small party during low crowds, and went through lots of FP refreshing, you were stuck with only 1 tier-1 ride. And at Animal Kingdom, it was often impossible to get FOP unless you were onsite for more than 4 days and you booked it for the end of your trip.
Now, you should be able to get a same day line-skip for every attraction, for a fee.

So they took away the free hamburger, and they replaced it with Filet Mignon (G+) and lobster (LL) for a fee.
1 good FP, booked 60+ days in advance, for "free".. or unlimited spontaneous same-day FPs for a fee.....
A trade that I will enthusiastically embrace.

I'm not really missing anything, you clearly are in love with this new change. That's great. For you.
You are free to see this as a positive experience for your future WDW vacations. That's great. For you.
You are free to disagree with us who feel differently.
The problem is your condescension and your dismissive attitude towards the people here who know that this is a negative for their own future WDW vacations.

 

[Sinder]

I got fp for TOT, SDD, RNR, and TSM all in one day. Thats more than 1. I've gotten Frozen, Soaring, and Test track all in the same day. Every time, with 8 people. So I'm not getting anything more than I did before, except now I'm paying a lot more for it.


Wait. Are you really Chapek here undercover trying to convince us that your new idea to make more money is really an amazing alternative to the free thing you already offered that worked well?

There has never been a trip, even with legacy FP that I only got 1 good FP all day.

 

[JZCubed]

One thing I don't think you are considering is that we should see the "typical" standby wait times we knew in FP+ days decrease once Genie+/IAS rolls out. When everyone had access to FP+, it inflated standby wait times because standby queues were frequently paused to allow the many, many FP+ users to come through any given hour. I think the ratio was something like 9 FP+ guests to every 1 standby guest would move through. This inevitably made the standby queue slower. In the new model, I would expect the presumption is that fewer people will be purchasing Genie+/IAS and/or fewer return times will be available to even it out. By nature, fewer people will be moving through the Lightning Lanes resulting in the standby queue stopping at less frequent intervals. As such, the standby queue will move faster. I'm not saying standbys for headliner attractions will be walk-on by any means, but it still would be feasible to get on these rides with a reasonable wait in the standby queue - especially if you hit it at rope drop.

Disney controls wait times by determining how many people to admit to a Park and how many people to staff at each ride/attraction.

According to CEO Chapek, only 70% of Disney hotels were available for occupancy; 30% of Disney hotels were unavailable this summer. By definition, even at a full 70%, Disney was not crowded this summer.

There were no FP+ this entire summer.

And yet, wait times were just short of an hour on almost every ride & attraction.

At best, folks were able to save time at Rope Drop for one ride/attraction, but crowds accumulated quickly. And if more people adopt Rope Drop strategy (since we'll all be awake at 7am), as well as, to get ahead of Genie - mornings will be worse.

Genie and/or Genie+ will do nothing to control wait times. But paying for Genie will lower Park & ride demand.

 

[havoc315]

-- You said, "I can do math,...."

So can Disney.

Disney controls wait times & ride capacity - and Park capacity. They only need to provide as much capacity as they require (which is why Park Reservations will be permanent).

If both Genie & Genie+ are efficient at moving crowds to rides & attractions with lower wait times, then the result is intended to be those rides & attractions will no longer have lower wait times. If Genie 'works', then Disney can increase Park capacity. Who wins with that?

Everyone wins.

Regarding paid Lightening Lanes access - this is effectively the equivalent of the sports bookie running the game. Math!

Think of it this way - do ya' think Disney will offer more 'free' Boarding Groups if they don't 'sell' all the Lightening Passes at whatever price they extort - or will Disney lower capacity if not enough passes are sold?

-- You also said, "If it's not better than FP+, then it will be a major fail."
Better for whom?

If they drive down guest satisfaction, that hurts Disney. They can't just charge whatever they want, let lines balloon out of control, and just wickedly rub their hands together and say "we will let you skip this 6 hour line for $500!" -- It would destroy guest satisfaction, hurt overall attendance.

And they expect Genie+, as people actually use it, to result in much higher guest satisfaction.

Plenty of folks on this Thread preferred making reservations months in advance - Genie will not be better for them or folks needing to awake daily while on vacation to make Park plans.

And it aggravates tons of people. Disney is betting, probably correctly, guest satisfaction will be higher if people can just ride whatever they want, booking a VQ just an hour in advance, instead of 2 months in advance.

And you cannot obtain 'free' Genie for 7Dwarfs and many others that were previously free. Not sure how paying is better than free.

I'll tell you how it's much better: Anybody willing to pay, can get a pass for Mine Train any time they want.
Under the old system, if you were off-site -- Good luck, you couldn't get it 30 days in advance. Even if you were on-site for 1-2 days, it was often hard to get a Mine Train pass 60-61 days out. You often needed 63+ days.
And when my kids were young, they didn't know whether they would want to do Mine Train or not, still being timid of coasters. They would need to see it in person before making the decision. But by the time they see it in person, too late to get a FP for it!
Under Genie+/LL, they can see the ride and then decide whether they want to try it.

So yes, paying for it is much better than free -- Since it wasn't so easy to get for free. But paying, guarantees I'll get it when I want. So to me, that's much better than free.

 

[havoc315]

I'm not really missing anything, you clearly are in love with this new change. That's great. For you.
You are free to see this as a positive experience for your future WDW vacations. That's great. For you.
You are free to disagree with us who feel differently.
The problem is your condescension and your dismissive attitude towards the people here who know that this is a negative for their own future WDW vacations.

How do they know it's a negative until they experience it?

 

[havoc315]

There has never been a trip, even with legacy FP that I only got 1 good FP all day.

Outside of Magic Kingdom, I've never been able to get more than 1 good FP per day. Last FP+ trip, as an example...
Got FP for Soarin. There was no availability for Frozen or Test Track FPs for the rest of the day. So got only 1 of the 3 "good" FPs at Epcot.

 

[havoc315]

I got fp for TOT, SDD, RNR, and TSM all in one day. Thats more than 1. I've gotten Frozen, Soaring, and Test track all in the same day. Every time, with 8 people. So I'm not getting anything more than I did before, except now I'm paying a lot more for it.

Lucky you. Maybe you've gone during low attendance, maybe you got lucky. In multiple trips, I have never ever been able to get more than 1 of those in a day.

 

[2minny]

I'm shocked at the negative feedback and backlash about the Genie+ announcement. Seems it's pure apprehension about change.
Too many people, I believe, I erroneously viewing this as now having to pay $15 per day for FP+, and having to book every morning at 7am, instead of 60 days in advance.
But this is NOT FP+. It should end up being a superior product. And for most attractions, there should be plenty of availability through the day. You would only be booking at 7am, if you want a 9am return time.

So with recent changes... I'm going to share my optimistic view of touring the parks, as an onsite deluxe guest:

Animal Kingdom Day: -- Assuming FOP and Safari are the "upcharge" attractions:
7-8 - Book Navi River on Genie+, 8-9am return time
7:30: No need to pay an upcharge for FOP, just do it during Early Entry rope drop for no charge.
8:00 -- At regular opening, the standby line at Safari should be bearable without the need to pay any upcharge.
After Safari, backtrack, go do Navi River with Genie+ reservation towards the end of your Genie+ window..
By 9am -- Board Navi River with Genie+, book Expedition Everest, Genie+ return time around 10-11am
After Navi River, start going counter-clockwise -- Go do Dinosaur in Standby around 9:30, standby of 15-20. Play games around Dinoland
Around 10 -- redeem your Genie+ at Expedition Everest, book next Genie+ for River Rapids, around 12pm-1pm
After Expedition Everest -- Do some of the walking tours, see Lion King. eat lunch. See Bug movie if interested..
After lunch, 12-1, redeem Genie+ for River Rapids. As redeeming, book and evening Genie+ for your park hop evening park.

So every major attraction done at AK, without paying the individual attraction fees..... only paying the $15 Genie+, and skipping the need for any significant lines.

DHS -- Assume Slinky and ROTR are "up charge"
7 -- Try to get ROTR with regular free boarding group. If fail, pay the $20 fee for a ride reservation around noon. Pay for evening Slinky
Book Genie+ for Runaway Train, 9am-10am window
8:30 am -- early entry: Straight to TOT. As soon as completed, go right to RNR. Should be getting off RNR no later than 9:15.
From there, around 9:15, so redeem your Runaway Train Genie+. While redeeming, book Smuggler's Run, return time should be somewhere between 11am and 1pm. After Runaway Train --- Go ride Star Tours Standby (still early, line should be under 15 minutes), Muppetvision. Depending on ROTR and Smuggler's Run return times, maybe see BATB or other shows.
Between 11 and 1 (won't take the whole 2 hours) redeem your LL or boarding group for ROTR, use Genie+ for Smuggler's Run. Book another Genie+ for the evening for TSM.

After walking on to both Star Wars rides, go leave for the afternoon. Go to the pool. Take a 4-5 hour break.
Come back in the evening, use the Genie+ reservation for TSM. I could skip Saucers or do them late when the standby line is short. Might even be able to get a 8-9pm Saucers Genie+ reservation after doing TSM. Ride Slinky with the purchased LL.
Hopefully finish the night at Fantasmic.

Every major attraction at DHS accomplished, with time for a long mid-day break, and no significant lines. Used Genie+/LL for Runaway Train, Smuggler's Run, TSM, ROTR, Slinky. Used early entry for TOT and RNR. If I was successful getting a boarding group for ROTR, then didn't even need to purchase a time.

I'll do Epcot and Magic Kingdom later in another post. If I go to those parks on nights with extended hours, they will be super easy.

I think the key to this enthusiasm is the comment "as an onsite deluxe guest". Many can't afford the upcharge, for something that was free. Especially when you add up days and number in a larger party. I am a bit frustrated with a combination of things that were free, now being charged or discontinued. (EMH, free onsite hotel parking, Magical Express and now Genie+....cha-ching!)

 

[msm1444]

In Feb of '19 I was able to ride FoP twice and Everest 3 times with FP+ using refresh method day of for four riders. Lucky yes, but it did happen.

 

[OhDannyBoy]

For what it's worth we got 6 people on Everest 3 times in November 2019. FoP we only got once.

That same weekend we got on Frozen twice, Soarin twice, and test track twice. it took a lot of refreshing but it did work.

it wasn't super busy to be fair but busy enough.

 

[luv2cheer92]

Wooo I'm starting to not look as crazy now.

ETA: I mean this as in a "even I'm not this enthusiastic about it", not in an i agree kind of way.

 

[JZCubed]

Everyone wins.

If they drive down guest satisfaction, that hurts Disney. They can't just charge whatever they want, let lines balloon out of control, and just wickedly rub their hands together and say "we will let you skip this 6 hour line for $500!" -- It would destroy guest satisfaction, hurt overall attendance.

And they expect Genie+, as people actually use it, to result in much higher guest satisfaction.



And it aggravates tons of people. Disney is betting, probably correctly, guest satisfaction will be higher if people can just ride whatever they want, booking a VQ just an hour in advance, instead of 2 months in advance.



I'll tell you how it's much better: Anybody willing to pay, can get a pass for Mine Train any time they want.
Under the old system, if you were off-site -- Good luck, you couldn't get it 30 days in advance. Even if you were on-site for 1-2 days, it was often hard to get a Mine Train pass 60-61 days out. You often needed 63+ days.
And when my kids were young, they didn't know whether they would want to do Mine Train or not, still being timid of coasters. They would need to see it in person before making the decision. But by the time they see it in person, too late to get a FP for it!
Under Genie+/LL, they can see the ride and then decide whether they want to try it.

So yes, paying for it is much better than free -- Since it wasn't so easy to get for free. But paying, guarantees I'll get it when I want. So to me, that's much better than free.

I gave you a list of folks who don't win, you're free to continuously ignore that list.

Despite having poor outcomes with FP+, you and many others still paid for Park admissions.

But your notion of Guest Satisfaction is driven by which guests?

With current outline of Genie - on-site guests lose, off-site guests win.

By your own narrative, off-site guests could not get Mine Train, but now they can pay for it - they win by Genie. On-site guests had FP+ & 7Dwarfs, now they'd have to pay (and lose).

Over and over and over and over and over again - you keep making the same argument - Genie is better for off-site guests. But your notion that on-site guests will benefit by virtue of shorter wait times has no basis in anything - since there is no data to support that claim.

I submit, and will repeat myself, in the short-run, there may be shorter wait times, but this will have nothing to do with Genie being efficient, rather, it will have everything to do with higher prices lowering demand.

Similarly, Disney has enormous vacancy rates - they are making up for lost customer volume by increasing prices.

I'm glad you feel like you're winning with Genie, but the people who kept the doors open by having on-site reservations are the ones paying for the increase in your Guest Satisfaction. When the pandemic is truly over, don't be surprised when Disney swings the pendulum back to the on-site guests.

 

[JZCubed]

Outside of Magic Kingdom, I've never been able to get more than 1 good FP per day. Last FP+ trip, as an example...
Got FP for Soarin. There was no availability for Frozen or Test Track FPs for the rest of the day. So got only 1 of the 3 "good" FPs at Epcot.

NOBODY could get more than 1 Tier-1 FP+, so you are either being disagreeable or untruthful about availability after you made your Soarin' selection.

 

[GatorChris]

If you're on this wall posting, do you really need an app telling you where to go? No way. If I'm new, OK, I'll use the app. But just the unpaid portion. But if you want to FP (which was free forever), you have to fork out money...for just some attractions. But for the best ones you really want, pay the fee and pay more fees per person. No thanks.

 

[ZellyB]

I'm with OP in that I think this could be a superior system. Am I happy to be paying more? No. I'm very fortunate that we have ways to keep some of our costs down and that makes it easier for us to tolerate G+ and even acknowledge that *for us* it might even be a superior product. I agree that the math works that when you eliminate everybody getting 3 FP+ 60 days ahead it likely dramatically increases daily availability, at least for a time in the mornings, over what we saw in the old FP+ days refreshing endless for that 4th FP. I absolutely see that rope drop and good touring strategies will be essential to the best outcome with this system and as another poster said above, I intend to learn as much as I can about maximizing the system to my advantage. But, I am sympathetic to those for whom the costs will be difficult to absorb and who felt the old free system worked well for them. I do hope that they can find a way to use the new system to their advantage as well.

I do think that it's true that many people are assuming the worst about how it will work when we honestly won't know for sure how it will work until it's in use. But, you know the old saying, "Hope for the best. Prepare for the worst." And when it comes to Disney and changes that's probably good advice.

 

[Jennasis]

Outside of Magic Kingdom, I've never been able to get more than 1 good FP per day. Last FP+ trip, as an example...
Got FP for Soarin. There was no availability for Frozen or Test Track FPs for the rest of the day. So got only 1 of the 3 "good" FPs at Epcot.

Dude you needed to come visit WDW with DH and I. While I detested FP+ with the white hot intensity of 10,000 suns, it was the system in place and I WORKED it hard. There wasn't a single day I couldn't get at least one tier 1 FP at each park. Most days I could get 1 or 2 while in the park. My refresh game was strong. We typically went through 6 or more FP+ in a day. I can't remember the last time we waited in a regular line.

 

[Sinder]

How do they know it's a negative until they experience it?

Experience what? Shelling out $1000 for something that used to cost $0?
Consider yourself lucky if that isn't something you have to concern yourself, unfortunately some of us aren't that lucky.
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here, maybe Disney will reduce park ticket prices this year and then it will be a wash for some families. I guess until we know that, you are right we won't really know if charging for what was once free is a negative thing.

 

[Airb330]

Dude you needed to come visit WDW with DH and I. While I detested FP+ with the white hot intensity of 10,000 suns, it was the system in place and I WORKED it hard. There wasn't a single day I couldn't get at least one tier 1 FP at each park. Most days I could get 1 or 2 while in the park. My refresh game was strong. We typically went through 6 or more FP+ in a day. I can't remember the last time we waited in a regular line.

I went from hating FP+ (because I didn’t want to plan rides 60 days in advance either) to loving it fir the same reason you mention here. Get your 3 and work hard for 4,5,6,7! Even during thanksgiving week, it worked. I think G+ may also work fine, but again it will require constant refreshes.

At least FP+ was one miserable morning 60 days out and now 7AM on vacation.

 

[georgina]

How do they know it's a negative until they experience it?

How do you know it will be positive until you experience it?

I've been reserving judgment to see how it will work in real time, there is much that has not yet been seen. I too got very good at working the FP+ system to get multiple FP per day