Engagement Party Dilemma

[TwinsinCA]

There is a big difference - it's either a party that welcomes children, or an adults only party. To compare, the hosts should've contacted everyone coming to the party with the "dress code." Please, I've had strangers (as guests of guests) come to parties, and I've never once thought to wonder how they'd dress.

And there are parties where the dress code is "anything goes" and there are parties where people are dressed more formally.

I stand by my kids analogy. She didn't have to tell anyone else about the dress code because, once again, ALL those people are known and known well by the couple. They know how to dress. No need to say a peep. Just like you don't have to tell everyone not to bring their kids to your party because in your circle of friends/family it is understood.

But say you have someone wanting to bring a guest you don't know. This guest has kids. She has 3 including a newborn. Her FB page is filled with pictures of herself and her kids. She works as a kindergarten teacher. She also practices attachment parenting and extended breastfeeding. And on and on. Would you not think to say to the person bringing her "hey by the way, this is an adults only party. Could you let her know that?" or would you simply say nothing and hope she has the good sense to leave her kids home. Then what happens if she shows up with the kids? Others on this thread say you should be gracious but YOU don't want kids there and will probably not enjoy your party as much. Nothing wrong with kids. (just like there is nothing wrong with dressing like a streetwalker) But YOU don't want them (kids or underdressed women) at YOUR party. Period.

 

[mjkacmom]

And there are parties where the dress code is "anything goes" and there are parties where people are dressed more formally.

I stand by my kids analogy. She didn't have to tell anyone else about the dress code because, once again, ALL those people are known and known well by the couple. They know how to dress. No need to say a peep. Just like you don't have to tell everyone not to bring their kids to your party because in your circle of friends/family it is understood.

But say you have someone wanting to bring a guest you don't know. This guest has kids. She has 3 including a newborn. Her FB page is filled with pictures of herself and her kids. She works as a kindergarten teacher. She also practices attachment parenting and extended breastfeeding. And on and on. Would you not think to say to the person bringing her "hey by the way, this is an adults only party. Could you let her know that?" or would you simply say nothing and hope she has the good sense to leave her kids home. Then what happens if she shows up with the kids? Others on this thread say you should be gracious but YOU don't want kids there and will probably not enjoy your party as much. Nothing wrong with kids. (just like there is nothing wrong with dressing like a streetwalker) But YOU don't want them (kids or underdressed women) at YOUR party. Period.

Again, apples and oranges. Kids not being invited is objective - no kids allowed. Dictating what a person can wear in public is subjective, and in this case, insulting. And when inviting people a party, the rule is, if one is not indicated on the invitation, one is not invited. I can't see it ever appropriate to give a guest instructions on what or what not to wear. Even if Uncle Joe is known to wear his blue jeans to formal weddings, it is what it is.

 

[TwinsinCA]

Again, apples and oranges. Kids not being invited is objective - no kids allowed. Dictating what a person can wear in public is subjective, and in this case, insulting. And when inviting people a party, the rule is, if one is not indicated on the invitation, one is not invited. I can't see it ever appropriate to give a guest instructions on what or what not to wear. Even if Uncle Joe is known to wear his blue jeans to formal weddings, it is what it is.

I completely disagree.

It is also objective to say "no jeans, no tank tops, no shorts" etc. etc. I don't understand how that is insulting.

Do you find it insulting for people to add "black tie" to a wedding invitation? Are they not dictating what guests wear?

As for the invitations. We don't know if formal invitations were issued for this party or if it was word of mouth or an e-vite. It was pretty rude for the cousin to invite himself AND request a guest as well.

I know only people listed on formal invites should be the ones attending. But we both know people don't think the rules apply to them. That is why people add things like "Adults only reception" just to clear up any confusion. Is that rude or is that SMART so people don't show up with their kids and "ruin" the party for those that don't want kids there.

Just as you cannot fathom a party being lessened by the presence of someone skantily dressed, I cannot fathom a party being ruined by a well behaved child. Neither of us are wrong. We just have a different comfort level and set of priorities.

 

[mjkacmom]

I completely disagree.

It is also objective to say "no jeans, no tank tops, no shorts" etc. etc. I don't understand how that is insulting.

Do you find it insulting for people to add "black tie" to a wedding invitation? Are they not dictating what guests wear?

As for the invitations. We don't know if formal invitations were issued for this party or if it was word of mouth or an e-vite. It was pretty rude for the cousin to invite himself AND request a guest as well.

I know only people listed on formal invites should be the ones attending. But we both know people don't think the rules apply to them. That is why people add things like "Adults only reception" just to clear up any confusion. Is that rude or is that SMART so people don't show up with their kids and "ruin" the party for those that don't want kids there.

Just as you cannot fathom a party being lessened by the presence of someone skantily dressed, I cannot fathom a party being ruined by a well behaved child. Neither of us are wrong. We just have a different comfort level and set of priorities.

But again, black tie is on ALL of the invitations, not told to one individual. And to be told not to have things hanging out is inappropriate. Is is appropriate to tell only one person that her children aren't invited, and not others, and imply it's because her children are brats?

 

[rie'smom]

I guess I would expect the bride to behave with grace and decorum as a hostess. To just believe that a cousin would bring someone who might embarrass the family does not say much about the relationship between the bride and cousin now does it? And yet he was invited because they are close?

They won't be close for long unless the groom to be mans up and tells his bride to stop being judgmental.
What is it with these guys who allow their fiancees to run roughshod over their families? It never would have occurred to me to be ugly to a future in law. She is digging a hole and is not getting off to a good start. Can you picture what her future is going to be like? Someone should embroider her a throw pillow stating, " You catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar." or "What goes around, comes around."

 

[TwinsinCA]

But again, black tie is on ALL of the invitations, not told to one individual. And to be told not to have things hanging out is inappropriate. Is is appropriate to tell only one person that her children aren't invited, and not others, and imply it's because her children are brats?

I don't know how many more ways I can say this. The party is small. They know all the people there EXCEPT for this one person. THAT is why she is being given "special" instructions. The rest already know what is expected so there is no point in telling them what they already know. Just like there is no point in telling people you are close to, that already know NOT to bring their kids, to tell them again to not bring their kids. It has nothing to do with who might have kids who are brats. It has to do with giving information to people who are out of the loop.

Is it appropriate to allow one person to bring their kids and not another? No. Is it appropriate to only tell one person when the rest already know? IMO, Yes. Who may or may not be a brat is not even at issue here.

 

[Magic Mom]

I don't know how many more ways I can say this. The party is small. They know all the people there EXCEPT for this one person. THAT is why she is being given "special" instructions. The rest already know what is expected so there is no point in telling them what they already know. Just like there is no point in telling people you are close to, that already know NOT to bring their kids, to tell them again to not bring their kids. It has nothing to do with who might have kid that are brats. It has to do with giving information to people who are out of the loop.

Is it appropriate to allow one person to bring their kids and not another? No. Is it appropriate to only tell one person when the rest already know? IMO, Yes. Who may or may not be a brat is not even at issue here.

That's rude (the bolded scenario, not you personally). Assuming a person will be skanky at your party when you have never even met them and then telling their date to make sure nothing is "hanging out", is rude. Period. If you want a dress code then it should be on the invitations. Otherwise, you get what you get. And again, even if she does show up with too much cleavage....in the big picture, it means nothing. It wouldn't ruin the party ( unless someone was so uptight they let it), and it wouldn't take away from the love of the couple or their special time.

 

[NikitaZee]

But again, black tie is on ALL of the invitations, not told to one individual. And to be told not to have things hanging out is inappropriate. Is is appropriate to tell only one person that her children aren't invited, and not others, and imply it's because her children are brats?

Exactly this.

 

[Lionqueen2]

When a party is given with a preference for a certain type of attire ( black tie, business, business casual, cocktail attire, casual,etc.), it is normally noted on the invitation. It doesn't seem as if the invitations to this party specified the desired dress, which really leaves that pretty much up to the guest.
If the bride's family tend to dress in business clothing, then it might not be necessary to mention, but the groom's family is also attending and not necessarily acquainted with the customary dress code of the bride's family so a note on the invitation might have clarified things for everyone.

Dress for a wedding or wedding events should take both families into consideration. I remember a wedding that we attended recently. The invitations stated black tie. Not a problem for DH, but the bride received many refusals because some of her guests did not own the requested attire. They were already stretching their budgets with the cost of attending an out-of-town wedding, gifts, and an additional cost of a tux,so many just sent a gift and opted out of attending the wedding. The bride thought it would be 'elegant' to have everyone dressed formally, but ended up with only a portion of her and her DH's family attending. A wedding is a celebration of a happy event. It is more important to have family and friends share in the celebrations than worry about what they will be wearing. Wedding memories are made by people, not clothes.

 

[RitaE]

I guess that in that case since she is the one person they don't know, it would be appropriate to make an extra effort to be gracious and make her feel comfortable.

There is nothing wrong with a dress code for the party. There is nothing wrong with issuing a request that kids not be in attendance.

These things are usually handled much more graciously than with a snotty comment about her job attire and facebook photos as well as the family behind the back gossip that she's not even really a girlfriend because she lives out of state and he's only seen her 5 times.

I would think that such classy, "conservative," people would pay just as much attention to politeness and etiquette as they would to judgmental unfriendliness to future family members about whether or not she'd show up with her body parts hanging out and ruin their special event.

A simple. "Why of course, we'd love to have her attend. Why don't you give me her address and I'll mail her an invitation."

And then sending an invitation which is worded "Semi Formal attire is requested" or whatever would have been a much more accepted means of handling this situation.

 

[Hannathy]

I don't know how many more ways I can say this. The party is small. They know all the people there EXCEPT for this one person. THAT is why she is being given "special" instructions. The rest already know what is expected so there is no point in telling them what they already know. Just like there is no point in telling people you are close to, that already know NOT to bring their kids, to tell them again to not bring their kids. It has nothing to do with who might have kids who are brats. It has to do with giving information to people who are out of the loop.

Is it appropriate to allow one person to bring their kids and not another? No. Is it appropriate to only tell one person when the rest already know? IMO, Yes. Who may or may not be a brat is not even at issue here.

I6t would have been appropriate and quite reasonable and acceptable IF they had simply said to the cousin,

"just so you know people will be dressed up at this party so you probably want to dress up, don't want you to feel out of place if you come too casually"

That would have been polite and nice. That is being helpful and letting them know the atmosphere of the part.
What they said was rude and judgmental and condescending.

 

[goofy!]

I stand by my kids analogy. She didn't have to tell anyone else about the dress code because, once again, ALL those people are known and known well by the couple. They know how to dress. No need to say a peep. Just like you don't have to tell everyone not to bring their kids to your party because in your circle of friends/family it is understood.

You are correct in the fact that there was no reason to say a peep.

Since the cousin is in the circle of friends/family, just like the other relatives, he should have been trusted to understand the bride's dress code preferences. Just as she did not say anything else to the other close members of the family, she should not have said anything to the cousin, who was also a close member of the family and should have been trusted, just like the others not to bring a 'ho to the party.

However, the sanctimoneous judgement of the cousin's choice of date, and then "gently" suggesting that his choice of date was a skank due to her job and random pictures was beyond rude.

Personally, I would like to know what the OP defines as "half dressed" and lingerie. My guess is that it is not even close to what most of the world would consider "half dressed".

But YOU don't want them (kids or underdressed women) at YOUR party. Period.

I really hope you meant to type THEIR party. This is a party celebrating equally the bride and the groom and their respective families. One half of the union is not more important, nor are their values, than the other half of the partnership.

 

[goofy!]

I guess that in that case since she is the one person they don't know, it would be appropriate to make an extra effort to be gracious and make her feel comfortable.

There is nothing wrong with a dress code for the party. There is nothing wrong with issuing a request that kids not be in attendance.

These things are usually handled much more graciously than with a snotty comment about her job attire and facebook photos as well as the family behind the back gossip that she's not even really a girlfriend because she lives out of state and he's only seen her 5 times.

I would think that such classy, "conservative," people would pay just as much attention to politeness and etiquette as they would to judgmental unfriendliness to future family members about whether or not she'd show up with her body parts hanging out and ruin their special event.

A simple. "Why of course, we'd love to have her attend. Why don't you give me her address and I'll mail her an invitation."

And then sending an invitation which is worded "Semi Formal attire is requested" or whatever would have been a much more accepted means of handling this situation.

Wonderfully said and sums it up quite well.

To get back to the OP's original question:

All parties were rude, however the OP and her daughter were by far the rudest and actually precipitated the rude answer from the cousin, which while not right, can be semi-excused as a knee-jerk reaction to such incredible sanctimoneous judgements from his cousin's fiancee and family.

 

[Lintasare]

Wonderfully said and sums it up quite well.

To get back to the OP's original question:

All parties were rude, however the OP and her daughter were by far the rudest and actually precipitated the rude answer from the cousin, which while not right, can be semi-excused as a knee-jerk reaction to such incredible sanctimoneous judgements from his cousin's fiancee and family.

Well said.

 

[rie'smom]

I don't know how many more ways I can say this. The party is small. They know all the people there EXCEPT for this one person. THAT is why she is being given "special" instructions. The rest already know what is expected so there is no point in telling them what they already know. Just like there is no point in telling people you are close to, that already know NOT to bring their kids, to tell them again to not bring their kids. It has nothing to do with who might have kids who are brats. It has to do with giving information to people who are out of the loop.

Is it appropriate to allow one person to bring their kids and not another? No. Is it appropriate to only tell one person when the rest already know? IMO, Yes. Who may or may not be a brat is not even at issue here.

The girl works at Hooters which does not imply that she has been raised in a box. Just the posters on this thread work in different types of places or have been brought up in different socio- economic backgrounds yet I'm willing to bet that each of us know the proper attire for an engagement party.
When I met my husband, I lived in a trailer with my son. My husband's family was very wealthy. He invited me to an engagement party for his cousin. No one contacted me and told me what to wear. Guess what I figured out all by my trailer park self that I should wear something appropriate for a cocktail party. My dress was $20 on sale and I loved it. Even though their dresses may have cost 100s or 1000s of dollars, they made me feel welcome and I felt that I fit in with them. I was appreciative then and now reading this thread I am even more grateful for their generous attitude.

 

[mickeysgal]

It would have been interesting to see how this would have played out if the cousin's and his gf did go to the party...dressed as they were dictated, but showed up sporting tatoos, hairstyle, or piercings that would make the Conservative Family twitch on the spot. Then what? Toss 'em out after the proper lecture? Not invite them to the wedding? Would the check/gift that they bring be returned as a symbol of their high conservative brow? Where does the judgement stop? What exactly is acceptable in a "proper conservative family"?

 

[NHdisneylover]

There is a difference, IMO, between pictures of people in swimsuits at a beach or pool and someone who posts pictures of themselves in lingerie (which the OP specifically mentioned).

The point is she does not KNOW this woman. Even the cousin who wants her there has only seen her a handful of times. Her judgement is a big question mark. So instead of keeping her fingers crossed and hoping for the best, OP's daughter was proactive and said something FIRST just so there is no misunderstanding. To me it is no worse than telling a parent 'do not bring your kids'.

The analogy with kids only works if you are talking about telling ONE parent not to bring her their kids (or to only bring them if they think the kids can behave as ladies ad gentlemen and not rough and tumble, like those photos of them climbing trees on Facebook) because you know the kids participate in activities which are wild and messy and assume they will therefor be wold and messy at your party--while not saying anything about kids to anybody else.

And thats what I call having class and grace.

Thanks. I am very different from my in-laws in many fundamental ways, but I love them to pieces and I think they are certainly classy and gracious people all around. I just cannot imagine them treating a guest of a relative in the way the OP's daughter did .

Believe me, DD & her DH would have but...... He's an only child, this wedding was his mother's side of the family, and it was just easier for him to go (even though he was going through the roof here - grumbling and carrying on like crazy) than put up with the whining, crying, pouting, and guilt trip from his mother.. But - that was the last time - and he made it perfectly clear to her in no uncertain terms.. She doesn't "like" it, but she'll get over it..

As to the topic at hand (not a response to anything you said) - unless the groom-to-be is totally on board with his future bride's ultra conservative/modest way of life - the wedding is still a year and a half away, so there's a chance that it may never take place.. Only time will tell..

As an only child myself I am dying to know what you think that has to do with this situation I am truly perplexed. Clearly it matters to you since you lead off with it--will you please clariy?

When a party is given with a preference for a certain type of attire ( black tie, business, business casual, cocktail attire, casual,etc.), it is normally noted on the invitation. It doesn't seem as if the invitations to this party specified the desired dress, which really leaves that pretty much up to the guest.
If the bride's family tend to dress in business clothing, then it might not be necessary to mention, but the groom's family is also attending and not necessarily acquainted with the customary dress code of the bride's family so a note on the invitation might have clarified things for everyone.

Dress for a wedding or wedding events should take both families into consideration. I remember a wedding that we attended recently. The invitations stated black tie. Not a problem for DH, but the bride received many refusals because some of her guests did not own the requested attire. They were already stretching their budgets with the cost of attending an out-of-town wedding, gifts, and an additional cost of a tux,so many just sent a gift and opted out of attending the wedding. The bride thought it would be 'elegant' to have everyone dressed formally, but ended up with only a portion of her and her DH's family attending. A wedding is a celebration of a happy event. It is more important to have family and friends share in the celebrations than worry about what they will be wearing. Wedding memories are made by people, not clothes.

Oh I love this and there are so many people lately who need to hear this and truly take it to heart

Wonderfully said and sums it up quite well.

To get back to the OP's original question:

All parties were rude, however the OP and her daughter were by far the rudest and actually precipitated the rude answer from the cousin, which while not right, can be semi-excused as a knee-jerk reaction to such incredible sanctimoneous judgements from his cousin's fiancee and family.

As usual, us European Boulderites are pretty much on exactly the same page We should meet up for coffee over the holidays.

 

[TwinsinCA]

And again, even if she does show up with too much cleavage....in the big picture, it means nothing. It wouldn't ruin the party ( unless someone was so uptight they let it), and it wouldn't take away from the love of the couple or their special time.

And here is the crux of the argument. Everyone has their own line as to what will lessen the enjoyment of a party for them. It doesn't make them "uptight". It is simply a personal preference. Some people are "uptight" about people being falling down drunk at their parties. Others are "uptight" about smoking in their house. Still others are "uptight" about having kids around.

Just because it doesn't bother you to see someone dressed that way at your one and only engagement party doesn't mean it might not bother someone else a whole lot. Since it is their party, they have the right to set some parameters. I don't think she deserves all the insults being tossed out on this thread.

 

[mjkacmom]

And here is the crux of the argument. Everyone has their own line as to what will lessen the enjoyment of a party for them. It doesn't make them "uptight". It is simply a personal preference. Some people are "uptight" about people being falling down drunk at their parties. Others are "uptight" about smoking in their house. Still others are "uptight" about having kids around.

Just because it doesn't bother you to see someone dressed that way at your one and only engagement party doesn't mean it might not bother someone else a whole lot. Since it is their party, they have the right to set some parameters. I don't think she deserves all the insults being tossed out on this thread.

Falling down drunks are loud and break things. Smoking causes the house to smell horrible for days if not week. Even well behaved children can be loud, and are more prone to whining and crying than adults (I have a gf who brings her ds to places he's not allowed, because she insists he's well behaved - sure, physically, he's fine, but he whines more than any little girl I've ever met). These things effect you, in more ways than one. I think an outfit one does not approve of is not nearly as personally invasive.

 

[Magic Mom]

And here is the crux of the argument. Everyone has their own line as to what will lessen the enjoyment of a party for them. It doesn't make them "uptight". It is simply a personal preference. Some people are "uptight" about people being falling down drunk at their parties. Others are "uptight" about smoking in their house. Still others are "uptight" about having kids around.

Just because it doesn't bother you to see someone dressed that way at your one and only engagement party doesn't mean it might not bother someone else a whole lot. Since it is their party, they have the right to set some parameters. I don't think she deserves all the insults being tossed out on this thread.

And the way the parameters are set make all the difference in being gracious and kind....or not.

And FTR I have NOT thrown insults at the OP.