Engagement issues already....

[CarolAnn856]

I thought you were from New Zealand?

I thought so, too.

 

[mummabear]

First, does the son really want his mum to accompany him to the florist and dress shop?

Personally, I'd just try to sit down with everyone, find out what each of their "dream weddings" looks like and coordinate with the parents of whomever's marrying my child, so that we can divide up the labour and everyone gets what they need. Two weddings? That's fine, we've got four parents! Not to mention which, it's not like the brides and grooms are incapable of doing anything for themselves.

After all, it's not like I'm the only human being on the planet capable of running around to dress shops (although, actually, if my son DID want to wear a dress to his wedding, I might allocate him more of my precious dress-shopping-time, just because it'd be ever so much more entertaining).

I may be biased, however, because my experience dress shopping with my mum was NOT a heart-warming bonding experience. It was tense and fraught and I ended up unhappy and resentful with a dress that was not to my taste and not even remotely my style. I would have been SO much happier if my mother had just let me do it myself, instead of trying WAY too hard to be a "good mother". And it may be that the son would be happier, too, with a bit less of his mum's attention. Once again, "equal" does not mean dragging BOTH your children off to dress shops, when only one actually wants to go to a dress shop with you.

I'm sorry you dress shopping was not a lot of fun, my mom was a bit like that she would buy me the one she wanted but not the one I wanted that was $1000 cheaper, so I just paid for my own dress.
I wasn't implying the MIL should go dress shopping with the groom (or the sons bride) but that many posters had said that the son and his fiancé can't complain if they don't get any help from the mother as she had already said she wants to focus on the daughter, my point is that it's over a year away, the mother can still be very involved with her daughter without ignoring her sons wedding. It may mean that you go to the florist with your son instead of your daughter because you are already doing 5 other appointments with your daughter.

I thought you were from New Zealand?

I am a Canadian that lives in NZ.

But comparing a parent reserving equal funds for their children's birthdays to a parent being prepared with sufficient funding to equalize the support of two weddings in two months time when the timing of the second was quite obviously surprising qualifies as analogous and germane to the question at hand? Watching the parameters flex is, interesting.

It's entirely plausible MOG had an entirely different expectation from information she got directly from her son, an expectation that was completely derailed when the priority was placed on the bride's sister's needs, perhaps over those of the groom himself. Would not be one bit surprised to find the groom later regrets accepting the wedding date before his graduation and so soon after his sister's, simply because I suspect the timing will seriously impact his ability to be present in the moment for both weddings and add pressure to the end of his education.

You do know the weddings are not in two months time right? They are in a year, with 2-3 months between them.
I have said before that the mother shouldn't renege on money promised to the sister (although people keep saying the MIL has only asked them to postpone by 2 months, I don't see how someone who can afford it with 15 month notice is going to scrape it together in another 2)
But I do think if she has overextended herself with promises to the sister that there are ways to "sort it out" as best you can, maybe she has promised to pay for all of the reception but hasn't bought or told the bride they were going to give them their honeymoon as their wedding gift-that gift could instead be given to the groom with a smaller gift going to the sister.

Again though you seem focused on Money, I am talking about a mother that doesn't seem to be willing to split her time(whatever amount of it she has) between her two children

 

[cabanafrau]

I'm sorry you dress shopping was not a lot of fun, my mom was a bit like that she would buy me the one she wanted but not the one I wanted that was $1000 cheaper, so I just paid for my own dress.
I wasn't implying the MIL should go dress shopping with the groom (or the sons bride) but that many posters had said that the son and his fiancé can't complain if they don't get any help from the mother as she had already said she wants to focus on the daughter, my point is that it's over a year away, the mother can still be very involved with her daughter without ignoring her sons wedding. It may mean that you go to the florist with your son instead of your daughter because you are already doing 5 other appointments with your daughter.



I am a Canadian that lives in NZ.


You do know the weddings are not in two months time right? They are in a year, with 2-3 months between them.
I have said before that the mother shouldn't renege on money promised to the sister (although people keep saying the MIL has only asked them to postpone by 2 months, I don't see how someone who can afford it with 15 month notice is going to scrape it together in another 2)
But I do think if she has overextended herself with promises to the sister that there are ways to "sort it out" as best you can, maybe she has promised to pay for all of the reception but hasn't bought or told the bride they were going to give them their honeymoon as their wedding gift-that gift could instead be given to the groom with a smaller gift going to the sister.

Again though you seem focused on Money, I am talking about a mother that doesn't seem to be willing to split her time(whatever amount of it she has) between her two children

My "focus" on money was in comments responding to your comments on . . . money. I guess I could have discussed zebras, but I really didn't feel it germane to the conversation. YMMV.

I am not confused even a little bit about when the weddings are scheduled, but it is thoughtful of you to point that out. Not because of an inordinate fixation upon money in my part rather in direct response to your comments above, I think it's entirely within the realm of possibility someone might have funds available in the first quarter of 2018 that are not available in the last quarter of 2017. As far as the potential to not follow through on what she planned or promised the daughter in order to accommodate her son's plans, not so sure that's necessarily the best solution in the situation. No doubt YMMV there as well.

You seem fixated on the notion the mother plans to ignore her son for the entirety of 2017 simply because of a comment she purportedly made about it being his sister's year. Once again, we received this information third hand through a source with a pronounced interest in the wedding being held in November '17 to suit their family's scheduling. Every other comment the MOG made against the November of '17 date regarded concerns pertaining directly to her son, comments and concerns that were dismissed out of hand as the mother "being difficult". That may or may not be the case, I have no idea. What I can say for sure is all of the information we have gotten about the mother's comments and concerns come via a pipeline with a vested interest in the wedding being held in November of '17 for reasons having only tangential connection to the bride and groom -- the very people the day is supposed to be "all about". I am incredibly skeptical the groom is as delighted with the timing as we are being led to believe, matter of fact I suspect the delay of two months might allow him to enjoy his own wedding day more fully. Wait a minute, that can't be right. I'm suggesting the two month delay should be considered in the interest of the bride groom, which is what his difficult mother who only cares about his sister suggested? Surely if I'm suggesting delay I must secretly favor his sister too. Yeah, that sounds much more believable.

 

[Wendy31]

Again though you seem focused on Money, I am talking about a mother that doesn't seem to be willing to split her time(whatever amount of it she has) between her two children

Speaking of mothers, does anyone actually think the Mother of the Bride, the OP, is still reading this thread?

And, mummabear, you keep arguing, & I'm not sure what you want. I don't think any of us are suddenly going to change our minds & say, "Oh, you're right. We were wrong. Thank you for helping us see the error of our thoughts."

Most of us are NOT saying the bride & groom MUST change their wedding date. However, MOST of us are saying that we can emphasize w/ the mother of the groom & don't find her "difficult" because we can see how it could be hard to plan & prepare for 2 weddings within a short time frame.

And, since the Mother of the Groom is not participating in this thread, we don't know how she plans to split her time, money, & other resources between her son & daughter. And we have NO IDEA if she's willing or not.

Honestly, I don't really see how it's so hard to understand if you were planning on one wedding & had saved & allocated a large sum for it how it might be difficult to suddenly come up w/ another large sum of money - even within the space of a year.

On a smaller scale, it's the same sort of concept as a Christmas budget. You budget & plan accordingly. And, then, after you've spent your allocated funds & every gift is wrapped & under the tree, your daughter comes home & tells you she needs to buy each of her fellow cheerleaders a present for the Christmas party that's just been scheduled. Okay, but you've spent all your Christmas money already. Plus, you've used up all the wrapping paper. Oh, & she needs a ride to the party which will be a problem because your son's holiday concert is scheduled for the same time.

 

[Magpie]

On a smaller scale, it's the same sort of concept as a Christmas budget. You budget & plan accordingly. And, then, after you've spent your allocated funds & every gift is wrapped & under the tree, your daughter comes home & tells you she needs to buy each of her fellow cheerleaders a present for the Christmas party that's just been scheduled. Okay, but you've spent all your Christmas money already. Plus, you've used up all the wrapping paper. Oh, & she needs a ride to the party which will be a problem because your son's holiday concert is scheduled for the same time.

In your scenario, my daughter would be informed (nicely) that presents for her fellow cheerleaders are her responsibility, not mine. I'm happy to offer recipes for baked goods, if she's short on funds. I'll even help make them!

Also, I'll be unable to give her a ride, as I'll be at her brother's holiday concert. I'd suggest she ask around and see if she can get a ride with one of her fellow cheerleaders, instead. Otherwise, there's always the bus. "Have fun at your party, sweetie!" If I can pick her up at the end of the night, I will.

Although, knowing my daughter and what she was like in high school, she'd know perfectly well that I couldn't give her a lift and would have already begun asking around. She wouldn't expect me to purchase presents for her cheerleading mates, either, though she'd probably ask me for help figuring out what to do for them. Neither of my kids had any sense of entitlement (sometimes to the point where they'd assume we wouldn't help, and then were hugely surprised and pleased when we did).

It wouldn't occur to me that I'd shortchanged my daughter in any way, since budgeting and planning for Christmas is as much her responsibility as it is mine. If she's going to go accepting invites to surprise Christmas parties, then it's up to her to make it work.

(And I wouldn't insist she postpone the party for another two months, either. )

 

[kaytieeldr]

Most of us are NOT saying the bride & groom MUST change their wedding date. However, MOST of us are saying that we can emphasize w/ the mother of the groom & don't find her "difficult" because we can see how it could be hard to plan & prepare for 2 weddings within a short time frame.

Granted, we're getting everything third hand. If the MoG had said this, or even that they couldn't contribute financially at all until the following September (and I'm genuinely surprised at the posters who interpret "[the] next year" as January 2018), there wouldn't be this controversy. As for suiting the bride's family's scheduling, well, she wants her sister to be able to participate.

 

[Nancyg56]

When my son and daughter in law were planning their wedding I imagine that my DDIL and her family thought that I was difficult. You see, DDIL and her bridesmaid decided that a Jack and Jill was in order. Now we had a jack and jill shower for my youngest son, but it was the old fashioned one that was basically a couples shower, no raffles, no entry ticket. Our relatives life at least 2 hours away, so we thought a nice dinner and dancing would be fun, and it was a way to be able to have the family together for a more informal party. What my DDIL and her friend wanted was one of the blowout parties, tickets, raffles, and a DJ. My son had attended about 3 stags in his life, had never bought a ticket to the ones that were held and he was not attending. His best man, my youngest son does not drink and he and his wife would not be attending. DH said there was no way he could bring tickets to work...Donny never went to one for his coworkers. The date that they were looking at was harvest in my family. Are you kidding me???? The brides family was on the west coast. And she wanted me to "reach out" to the bridesmaid....the only one who was in the area and would be able to attend....No. I am not doing this. No amount of discussion would sway her.

So finally after it was clear that DDIL did not understand how our side of the family would react we had a come to Jesus meeting. Here is the deal...I am not telling you what to do, but who is going to be on the hook for this shindig? Who is going to pay for the rental on the hall, the gifts to be raffled, the food that you need to order and the DJ once you commit to this? The bride has no family here. The bridal party is not here. Most of the Grooms small family cannot make it, and the grooms father cannot ask his friends to pony up because most of these guys have never seen his son at a stag or J&J. Apparently it never occurred to this bridesmaid that attendance would be an issue, and my DDIL did no want to hurt her feelings. I understood that this was a party that in theory sounded plausible, the reality was that it was not. I will tell you, that made me look really difficult, but bottom line was that I was not willing to take the plunge on this thing.

Now I did know that I could have a shower for her that I could afford, that would be more appropriate for our family, and that would not blow up in her face when at the end. She agreed to that.

Funny thing though....My youngest, the best man wanted to do a little something for his brother because there would not be a stag. He planned a dinner at a local restaurant, bought a TV and a few thing, and asked close friends and the men in our immediate family to attend. The cost was the cost of the meal. My DDIL father and BIL were in town because this was a week before the wedding. They declined. They said in their area no one is expected to pay for a meal.

Difficult is in the eye of the beholder. DDIL friend thought we were difficult because we did not do those J&J in our family. DDIL's parents thought we were difficult because Dan asked for the cost of a meal so that his brother could have a little evening honoring him, in much the way we had a shower honoring their daughter. By the wedding I thought everyone was difficult, after hosting the rehearsal for all out of town relatives, the brides family for dinner twice and a meal for our friends family who came from Florida, I was just wicked exhausted.

WE all see things through our own filters, and base what is reasonable on our family customs and traditions. We know what will fly in the family and what will not. Will family try to come together? Sure. But at what cost? I know the OP has her own filter here, but it would not hurt to discuss the MOG concerns with her. She knows what challenges will be there if the couple insists on their date. The couple can move forward with their plans, But perhaps an open and honest conversation would shed more light on why she is looking for a later date. I know that my DDIL had not really listened when we tried to present our concerns "gently". Looking back, I should have been brutally honest about what we thought would be an issue rather than tippy toe around it. Bet a buck the MOG is doing the same as I did.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Wow.............

 

[CarolAnn856]

Wow.............

Strange that you keep bumping a thread you claim you want to see sink into oblivion. Personally, I think it's been interesting, so bump away!

 

[roseaster]

Wow.............

LOL. Hanging on every word.

 

[MataHari22]

When my son and daughter in law were planning their wedding I imagine that my DDIL and her family thought that I was difficult. You see, DDIL and her bridesmaid decided that a Jack and Jill was in order. Now we had a jack and jill shower for my youngest son, but it was the old fashioned one that was basically a couples shower, no raffles, no entry ticket. Our relatives life at least 2 hours away, so we thought a nice dinner and dancing would be fun, and it was a way to be able to have the family together for a more informal party. What my DDIL and her friend wanted was one of the blowout parties, tickets, raffles, and a DJ. My son had attended about 3 stags in his life, had never bought a ticket to the ones that were held and he was not attending. His best man, my youngest son does not drink and he and his wife would not be attending. DH said there was no way he could bring tickets to work...Donny never went to one for his coworkers. The date that they were looking at was harvest in my family. Are you kidding me???? The brides family was on the west coast. And she wanted me to "reach out" to the bridesmaid....the only one who was in the area and would be able to attend....No. I am not doing this. No amount of discussion would sway her.

I guess I'm totally out of the loop, I don't have kids, and I live in a very rural area, so I had no clue this was a thing. I am thinking a Jack and Jill is like a combined and a shower not only for the bride, but the groom, too. What the heck is with the tickets and raffles? Ticket into the event, or you buy raffle tickets, for like prizes? This is so weird. Never heard of this. With a DJ and a party like that, it doesn't sound like a shower to me, but this sounds more like a bachelor party or girls night out before the wedding.

Where I live, I never heard of doing this. A lot of people here, just have simple showers, at someone's home, or maybe a church or social hall. Occasionally a restaurant with a dedicated room, if they have more money to spend.

 

[Nancyg56]

I guess I'm totally out of the loop, I don't have kids, and I live in a very rural area, so I had no clue this was a thing. I am thinking a Jack and Jill is like a combined and a shower not only for the bride, but the groom, too. What the heck is with the tickets and raffles? Ticket into the event, or you buy raffle tickets, for like prizes? This is so weird. Never heard of this. With a DJ and a party like that, it doesn't sound like a shower to me, but this sounds more like a bachelor party or girls night out before the wedding.

Where I live, I never heard of doing this. A lot of people here, just have simple showers, at someone's home, or maybe a church or social hall. Occasionally a restaurant with a dedicated room, if they have more money to spend.

Around here there are these J&J that involve ticket sales. The ticket include a DJ, beer and wine, and food. There are raffles as well. They are parties. They can be instead of a shower and stag, but many times they are in addition to one. WE have gone to plenty, and DH and I generally enjoy them. We do pick and choose which ones we go to though, but DH buys tickets whenever a coworker has someone getting married. They are intended to help the couple.

When I was a kid we used to have Jack and Jill showers but they were in place of a Stag and a SHower and therre were no tickets sold, IIRC.

 

[roseaster]

Around here there are these J&J that involve ticket sales. The ticket include a DJ, beer and wine, and food. There are raffles as well. They are parties. They can be instead of a shower and stag, but many times they are in addition to one. WE have gone to plenty, and DH and I generally enjoy them. We do pick and choose which ones we go to though, but DH buys tickets whenever a coworker has someone getting married. They are intended to help the couple.

When I was a kid we used to have Jack and Jill showers but they were in place of a Stag and a SHower and therre were no tickets sold, IIRC.

Maybe I'm old, or maybe this isn't a thing here, but I have never heard of this, either, and I think this sounds incredibly tacky?

Charging admission to a party? Are you also expected to bring a gift? A fundraiser to help the couple pay for their wedding?

Not to sound like an old fuddy-duddy but I would never attend one of these. 1st because I think that it is the height of bad taste to charge admission to a party, and 2nd, you plan the wedding you can afford. If you have to fund raise for the wedding you are spending beyond your means.

 

[marlynnp]

Strange that you keep bumping a thread you claim you want to see sink into oblivion. Personally, I think it's been interesting, so bump away!

Right? Flounced off a week and a half ago and has had to come back twice...
Someone should throw up a RED FLAG!!! or something

 

[Wishing on a star]

Are guys for real.
I didn't bump a thread.
I happened to see that this crazy thread was already back up on the top of page one.
Two threads earlier today by the resident 'horse-beaters'.

I have not ever made a reference to 'red flags' etiher.
That one is just genius!!! Gotta hand it to you!!

Maybe you all are incapable of actually looking at posts and times and dates.
But you are excellent at creating total and complete fiction.
Certainly experts at hurling personal attacks!!!

Gotta love it, because to me, the DIS is a great source of entertainment!

 

[Nancyg56]

Maybe I'm old, or maybe this isn't a thing here, but I have never heard of this, either, and I think this sounds incredibly tacky?

Charging admission to a party? Are you also expected to bring a gift? A fundraiser to help the couple pay for their wedding?

Not to sound like an old fuddy-duddy but I would never attend one of these. 1st because I think that it is the height of bad taste to charge admission to a party, and 2nd, you plan the wedding you can afford. If you have to fund raise for the wedding you are spending beyond your means.

It is a pretty normal thing here, so I guess it is regional. No gift at a J&J. I have no idea what couples do with the money and I don't care. I figure my $20 ticket helps a little, as do the tickets I buy for raffles. I never win anything.

It is bad taste to go outside of what is acceptable in your area. It is not bad taste to do what is an acceptable wedding event in your area. What is tacky here may not be be tacky in your area, but if the number of J&J I have either attended or bought tickets to is any indication of what is normal here, I guess it's not considered tacky. I did not want to participate in one for my DS because my family does not have them. Not that way they are in my area.

So let me ask you? Do you folks have stags in your neck of the woods? We do here and the guys buy tickets. They have raffles, and they are meant to raise cash for the wedding couple. My DH buys them for just about every coworker who has a family member getting married although he attends few now. Just about everyone I know who has gotten married has one, along with a shower for the bride. My DDIL tols my son they do nto have them where she was raised.

 

[jevs]

I guess I'm totally out of the loop, I don't have kids, and I live in a very rural area, so I had no clue this was a thing. I am thinking a Jack and Jill is like a combined and a shower not only for the bride, but the groom, too. What the heck is with the tickets and raffles? Ticket into the event, or you buy raffle tickets, for like prizes? This is so weird. Never heard of this. With a DJ and a party like that, it doesn't sound like a shower to me, but this sounds more like a bachelor party or girls night out before the wedding.

Where I live, I never heard of doing this. A lot of people here, just have simple showers, at someone's home, or maybe a church or social hall. Occasionally a restaurant with a dedicated room, if they have more money to spend.

I'm with you, but I think I'm just too old for all of this **** LOL

Charging admission and raffles and tickets for an engagement has me lol-ing.

 

[Nancyg56]

Are guys for real.
I didn't bump a thread.
I happened to see that this crazy thread was already back up on the top of page one.
Two threads earlier today by the resident 'horse-beaters'.

I have not ever made a reference to 'red flags' etiher.
That one is just genius!!! Gotta hand it to you!!

Maybe you all are incapable of actually looking at posts and times and dates.
But you are excellent at creating total and complete fiction.
Certainly experts at hurling personal attacks!!!

Gotta love it, because to me, the DIS is a great source of entertainment!

I think the reason we are confused is becuase the thread has moved on quite a bit from the OP and we are not discussing anything that was being discussed when you left in a snit. Why woudl you feel the need to come back with your fainting spell? Right now we are in the middle of a conversation that centers on regional customs that may seem to be tacky in some parts of the country but that are considered a normal wedding event in others. If you want to discuss that, I'm sure you have a contribution that will make the discussion more lively.

 

[Nancyg56]

I'm with you, but I think I'm just too old for all of this **** LOL

Charging admission and raffles and tickets for an engagement has me lol-ing.

They can be a lot of fun. As I said, we pick and choose which ones we go to, and we tend to get out not too long after dinner. Come to Northern CT and see for youself! LOL!

 

[jevs]

It is a pretty normal thing here, so I guess it is regional. No gift at a J&J. I have no idea what couples do with the money and I don't care. I figure my $20 ticket helps a little, as do the tickets I buy for raffles. I never win anything.

It is bad taste to go outside of what is acceptable in your area. It is not bad taste to do what is an acceptable wedding event in your area. What is tacky here may not be be tacky in your area, but if the number of J&J I have either attended or bought tickets to is any indication of what is normal here, I guess it's not considered tacky. I did not want to participate in one for my DS because my family does not have them. Not that way they are in my area.

So let me ask you? Do you folks have stags in your neck of the woods? We do here and the guys buy tickets. They have raffles, and they are meant to raise cash for the wedding couple. My DH buys them for just about every coworker who has a family member getting married although he attends few now. Just about everyone I know who has gotten married has one, along with a shower for the bride. My DDIL tols my son they do nto have them where she was raised.

They sure do. Generally out for a meal and then a load of drinking. Usually the groom to be doesn't pay a cent for meal and drinks, his mates do.

The only time tickets are involved is if they were doing a cruise on the river, concert, boozy bus cruise or something like that.