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[dejr_8]

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[The Mystery Machine]

Because it cuts funding to schools that are in desperate need.

It is a wolf in sheep's clothing designed to take money away from public schools.

 

[jodifla]

Not looking for a debate.

I truly don't understand the issue. I know many many people say they don't like it because they are teaching to a test. But isn't that the idea. We want kids to learn a certain set of concepts in each grade. So you test them on those concepts and thus it would seem to follow that you need to teach what is on the test. - What am I missing?

I have two kids (4th grade and 1st grade) and have no issues with what and/or how they are being taught.

Of course NCLB will be going away and that is one reason I don't believe the Feds should have any say in education. There can be a complete shift in approaches depending on the make-up of D.C. - But that is a topic for another thread.

It's a big bill, with lots of good stuff in it, and lots of bad as well.

The testing thing has gotten over the top -- that's one of the biggest complaints with it. It overshadows the rest of the bill.

 

[LotsOfQuestions]

It has some great ideas in it as well as some not so great.

Unfortunately, the bill was pushed through, but no funding to accomplish the goals was approved.

All the ideals, but no way to accomplish all the new rules.

 

[simpilotswife]

In theory NCLB should be what we want. Unfortunately in reality it comes at a price. In teaching to a test you are, in effect, limiting what a child needs to know to the material on the test. Children are being drilled in what they need to know in order to do well on the test and the timing of the test (or tests) is such that there is no time to actually enjoy what they are learning. In many school systems the fun and love of learning has been taken out of the classroom.

 

[xoprincessmomxo]

Children are being left behind. Mine included. She's a first grader with terrible handwritng. We work with her at home over and over and nothing has worked. According to her kindergarten teacher, the muscles in her hand are underdeveloped, making it hard for her to write. This year, she's way behind. When we asked the teacher about it, she informed us that handwriting was not a focus now as that it is not on the NCLB curriculum. She's great on her DIBELS and testing...you just can't read what she writes on it. But she gets the answers right, because so far most of it is oral.

My nephew is on the other extreme. He skipped 3rd grade, is now in 4th. They've refused to skip him any more grades (which his parents agree with). But he is so far ahead of the others in his class, he is being left behind in a way. He's not learning anything, but instead is just floating through another grade. It's another stagnant year for him. Even his teacher has said that because of the NCLB, there has become a great divide between the brighter and the not as bright students.

 

[just4today]

It's an unfunded mandate with next-to-impossible-to-meet standards.

 

[simpilotswife]

Children are being left behind. Mine included. She's a first grader with terrible handwritng. We work with her at home over and over and nothing has worked. According to her kindergarten teacher, the muscles in her hand are underdeveloped, making it hard for her to write. This year, she's way behind. When we asked the teacher about it, she informed us that handwriting was not a focus now as that it is not on the NCLB curriculum. She's great on her DIBELS and testing...you just can't read what she writes on it. But she gets the answers right, because so far most of it is oral.

Request that your school district do an Occupational Therapy evaluation on your child. Send the request in writing to your school districts special education department, CC it to your child's teacher and the building principal. The school district is required by law to test your child if you request the test in writing. Don't let them tell you that your child doesn't need it or won't qualify, once you ask the district must perform the evaluation.

 

[EthansMom]

At our grade school, the testing literally takes days... I think around 15 hours for the older (4/5th grade) kids. I think the testing is excessive. Our school spends hours and hours reviewing the test subjects and then ~15 hours doing the testing, itself. It's extremely inefficient. Think of everything the kids could actually be learning if even half of that time was spent teaching new material. And this is at a good school!

When I was in grade school, we spent 1-2 days a year doing educational testing. We *might* spend an hour or so discussing the material and format of the test. At DS's grade school, they are already teaching material directly from the 3rd grade test in DS's second grade class. I don't have a problem with the material that is being taught, but, IMO there is so much time and effort being spent on that PARTICULAR material that other stuff, not covered by the test, may be being pushed to the wayside.

 

[xoprincessmomxo]

Request that your school district do an Occupational Therapy evaluation on your child. Send the request in writing to your school districts special education department, CC it to your child's teacher and the building principal. The school district is required by law to test your child if you request the test in writing. Don't let them tell you that your child doesn't need it or won't qualify, once you ask the district must perform the evaluation.

THANK YOU! I have a conference with her teacher tonight and I'm trying to get my backbone ready to demand something be done. We went round and round with her kindergarten teacher. I thought something was wrong that needed evaluated, she kept saying "no, she'll catch up. She's very bright". I all ready know she's bright, but if she can't write, what good will that do her. I will definitely do this.

 

[puffkin]

I am a CPA with 6 years of real world business experience. I recently looked into becoming a HS business teacher. I had no problem going back to school to take the teaching classes to become certified.

What a joke. I would have to get certified in something and NONE of my business classes counted. I would have to take all the classes for a subject plus the teaching classes. Then once I was certified in that subject I could become certified to teach business. It would have taken me 3+ years of taking FT classes to become a teacher. I said no thanks even though I would have made a great teacher......

 

[CowboyCO]

Children are being left behind. Mine included. She's a first grader with terrible handwritng. We work with her at home over and over and nothing has worked. According to her kindergarten teacher, the muscles in her hand are underdeveloped, making it hard for her to write. This year, she's way behind. When we asked the teacher about it, she informed us that handwriting was not a focus now as that it is not on the NCLB curriculum. She's great on her DIBELS and testing...you just can't read what she writes on it. But she gets the answers right, because so far most of it is oral.

My nephew is on the other extreme. He skipped 3rd grade, is now in 4th. They've refused to skip him any more grades (which his parents agree with). But he is so far ahead of the others in his class, he is being left behind in a way. He's not learning anything, but instead is just floating through another grade. It's another stagnant year for him. Even his teacher has said that because of the NCLB, there has become a great divide between the brighter and the not as bright students.

Have you taken your daughter to the doctor? I would think she would benefit from specialized physical therapy to help devlop her motor skills. The school district may have resources to help with this.

 

[Mickeyluver37]

Well, here in MD those tests are very writing intensive, and I find a lot of that to be tedious in Math. 2+2 equals 4 because it DOES. A 1st grader shouldn't have to write a paragraph explaining why.

They have these kids so worked up and nervous about these tests, too. And it's not because the administration cares about the students- it's about their own "report cards."

 

[SeaShelley]

In our District we joke that while no child is being left behind, no child is getting ahead either. Teaching to a test is one thing, but it should not be the only thing. Not all children learn the same way. I believe it's putting extreme pressure on teachers to "teach to the test" because the results of those test directly impact the school's funding and, in the long run, their job performance.

 

[castleview]

A non-English speaking child who arrived yesterday from another country has to take the same test as every other student. A child with an IQ in the 60s has to take that same test too. The goal of NCLB is to close the gap of student achievement. Unfortunately, that can only be done by bringing down the high achieving students - thus lower expectations for kids at the top of the spectrum. With all the emphasis on participation and nothing else, several school systems in my state that offer top of the line (to die for, actually) educations would get put on the failing list.

 

[Cindy B]

I'm in an urban low performing school. Every single child is below grade level and needs help in every subject area.

Due to NCLB, I have to try my best to get these students on a level that the goverment mandated.

I have kids that can not read the questions-let alone pass. Some of these students would benefit from an IEP or specialized instruction but because everyone is so behind only certain ones that get these special services even though everyone is desperately in need.

I am trying my best. I have been told to tell these kids about the test from the FIRST day of school-- even though the test is in MAY! Yes, MAY!

There is also another problem with regards to students with learning disabilities. I've seen students that can't read the test and just create patterns in the test booklet because the NCLB mandated that only a certain percentage of people can be assessed using the APA (Alternate Proficiency Assessment) portfolio format.

 

[dejr_8]

No comment

 

[Belle2667]

My boys think taking those tests is a joke. They don't care whether or not the school district gets money. All they know is that its the main theme in every class (teaching to the test) and that it doesn't affect their report cards, so why bother.

Additionally, all students are allowed to take only 10 vacation days over 4 years (to meet the NCLB attendance requirements). It's like good students (honor roll) are being penalized.

Actually, we go anyway, and the punishment is "0" on any tests missed during that time. OK with me. Family time is more important and their grades are normally good enough to withstand a 0.

BUT....now our school district wants to make passing the PSSA's a graduation requirement. They have too many honor roll students who just blow them off, hurting their scores. The school district wants their grades.

I agree that there are good aspects to NCLB, but when all the district cares about is getting their money at anyone's expense, then it's the wrong program.

 

[Northstar]

The basic problem with the way NCLB has been implemented is that it makes the assumption that the reason kids aren't learning is that schools are too lazy to teach them right.

Seriously. That's what it assumes. They say to inner-city schools with major problems and no money, "Hey, if you guys would just teach these basic skills, the kids would learn just fine. Teach them right and the test scores will come up."

But when the scores DON'T come up, the schools are punished in ways that ensure the school will become even less able to teach effectively.

So schools have learned to cheat. One way is "triage"... focus all your attention and resources on the kids who are falling just below the standards. The ones who are way behind... well, no use wasting time on them, they're a lost cause. The ones who are already meeting standards.... no point in challenging them, just make sure they show up on testing day so their scores go into the school's figures.

And to avoid being classified as a failing school, administrators have wasted a lot of time figuring out ways to tweak the scores and make statistics work for them. See if you can't manage to exclude some of your problem students, or get them included in a different group when looking at scores. Better yet, get them to go to another school (or just to SAY they're going to another school, when they're actually dropping out).

So what's wrong with NCLB? Not the standards and not the testing.... but the assumption that if we get rid of the schools that don't improve their test scores, effective schools will magically spring up to take their places and will be able to take the failing students (from the dead ineffective school) and solve all their problems by just teaching 'em right.

 

[ajwomic]

My gifted children are being left behind because now you can only teach what is on the test. No enrichment or acceleration for those that need it. And since you can leave no low students behind the curriculum is boiled down and bare bones. No science or history until 3rd grade, etc. I HATE IT!!
Alicia