Effective DVC Point Rental Agreements

[Sue's Mum]

Thank you for the update, JimC. Most useful.

 

[ascardino]

I have been following this thread in the interest of possibly renting points. I have rented to family which is a much simpler process.

Most of what I have read states that "renters" are asking for 50% up front and then faxing a copy of the ressie with the final 50% at 90 or 120 days. What would you recommend if the person wanting to rent wants to rent within 60 days? Would you ask for full payment up front or split it with maybe the final payment at 45 days?

So, for example, someone wants 120 points for mid-July and we are now at the end of May. What would you recommend that would be fair. I am not renting for profit or to "make money" just to make sure that I do not lose points that I may not be able to use so I am just looking to protect myself as well as be fair.

Thanks.

 

[JimMIA]

So, for example, someone wants 120 points for mid-July and we are now at the end of May. What would you recommend that would be fair. I am not renting for profit or to "make money" just to make sure that I do not lose points that I may not be able to use so I am just looking to protect myself as well as be fair.

Well, you have to protect yourself against two things and one of them is an unknown without knowing your UY.

With a very short-term rental like that, one big concern is a cancellation within 30 days. In your example, 30 days is only a couple of weeks away and you haven't even made the reservations yet. If they cancel within 30 days of arrival, the points go into holding and can only be used for ressies <60 days out.

The other consideration is your banking deadline. If that occurs after you make the ressie and then they cancel, you are stuck with "use or lose" points because you can't bank them.

I don't think any of us can tell you how to do a business transaction with family. I have family members and friends I'd do it for on their word, and I have a few for whom I'd require non-counterfeit cash before I even called MS!

 

[JimMIA]

To follow up, one thing I'd be certain to make abundantly clear with your family is that IF they cancel, your options are going to be very, very limited because of the lateness of the transaction. You might not be able to do anything to save your points, or you might get them in holding account and not be able to use them.

Unfortunately, family members and friends don't understand DVC. They think you can just cancel a ressie like you can a hotel ressie -- no harm, no foul.

It ain't like that, and they need to understand very clearly that a cancellation will be a BIG problem...for them, as well as for you.

 

[ascardino]

To follow up, one thing I'd be certain to make abundantly clear with your family is that IF they cancel, your options are going to be very, very limited because of the lateness of the transaction. You might not be able to do anything to save your points, or you might get them in holding account and not be able to use them.

Unfortunately, family members and friends don't understand DVC. They think you can just cancel a ressie like you can a hotel ressie -- no harm, no foul.

It ain't like that, and they need to understand very clearly that a cancellation will be a BIG problem...for them, as well as for you.

Thanks for getting back to me. I must not have been clear in that I have only rented to family in the past and this time I am considering to renting to someone I do not know.

My use year is March 2010 so I think I am okay with renting for a ressie before 10/31 which is when the points would have to be banked by.

I was thinking of asking for 50% now and the other 50% in something like 2 weeks since it is such a tight timeframe, but I have continued to read other posts from people who do not seem to have any issue with asking for the 100% up front. I guess a phone conversation would probably be the best way for me to gauge how comfortable I am and which way to go.

 

[Deb & Bill]

Thanks for getting back to me. I must not have been clear in that I have only rented to family in the past and this time I am considering to renting to someone I do not know.

My use year is March 2010 so I think I am okay with renting for a ressie before 10/31 which is when the points would have to be banked by.

I was thinking of asking for 50% now and the other 50% in something like 2 weeks since it is such a tight timeframe, but I have continued to read other posts from people who do not seem to have any issue with asking for the 100% up front. I guess a phone conversation would probably be the best way for me to gauge how comfortable I am and which way to go.

If I were renting out my points, I would ask for 100% as soon as the reservation was made. If I didn't get it in 5 days, I'd cancel the reservation.

 

[clint999]

Right...I understand what it means. But what I'm saying - and probably not well - is that this clause protects no one, and makes the owner responsible for something for which they should have zero responsibility.

Force majeure, among other things, is what trip insurance is for. An owner should not intentionally interject themselves into this mess.

 

[ascardino]

Does anyone have a sample contract for transfers that they can post? I am thinking about renting points via a transfer and am unsure of the process.

It seems to me that a contract for transfer could be much simpler than for renting points, but I agree that it would be nice to see a sample.

ByWm

I have been searching but really have not found anything on a "transfer" contract only rentals.

If anyone has a contract that has been used for transferring points, I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks,
Gina

 

[denegate]

In regards to the sample agreement posted by WebMasterDoc:

This is great and would be very helpful to both the DVC member and the renter. I recently rented points from a member here and then cancelled four months before our travel dates and I was told I would not receive any of my 50% deposit back (over $700). If I would have had this contract it appears I would have most likely received at least a portion of my deposit back. There was no contract between the two of us. I had changed my reservation and had an excess number of points not used and the member tried to help me but in the end it appeared to be too much work for her and I had to cancel. I had rented points from other members on these boards in the past and never had a problem - hence the reason I did not ask for a contract. Unfortunately, I have had to take this loss and move on. Hopefully the experience will change the way this member (and I) rent points in the future.

The only thing I want to point out in this contract that may be a bit fuzzy to the renter is the status of the points. I copied the paragraph below to which I am referring. Usually the member doesn't tell you the status of the points before you rent them (use year/holding account/banking/borrowing status, etc.). I think this paragraph works fine, I just want to point out to the renters reading this the importance of understanding what this section means. The renter needs to take the initiative and ask the member about the status of the points and how that status will affect any changes or cancellations needed. It would also be helpful for the member to explain this to the renter beforehand if possible. This way there would be no ($700 in my case) surprises.

If Renter wishes to cancel the reservation, Member will make reasonable efforts to assist Renter to cancel the reservation on a timely basis. Cancellation must take place 31 days or more in advance of arrival to avoid penalties. Renter will be repaid for any points that are not subject to any restrictions and are returned to their original Disney Vacation Club status and use year. Points that are in holding accounts, or are subject to banking or borrowing restrictions or are permanently transferred outside of the Disney Vacation Club resort collection are repaid only if Member can rent them and only to the extent of any rental payments received by Member for such points up to and not to exceed the amounts paid by Renter. Member shall deduct any nonrefundable fees or costs incurred by Member prior to returning any monies due to Renter. Member shall return any monies due to Renter via PayPal within 5 business days of the date that such determination is made.

 

[Deb & Bill]

In regards to the sample agreement posted by WebMasterDoc:...

As much as you like that paragraph, ultimately, an agreement is pretty much based on what the member wants to do and either the renter takes it or leaves it. Lots of members do not offer a refund at all.

 

[denegate]

As much as you like that paragraph, ultimately, an agreement is pretty much based on what the member wants to do and either the renter takes it or leaves it. Lots of members do not offer a refund at all.

That's true - I think you missed my point. If you were to sign this contract there would a refund.

I want to add that I agree it's definetely the member's choice to make a refund available or stipulate that there are no refunds. I'm fine with that either way - I just want to know this beforehand, hence the importance of a contract.

 

[Dean]

If you were to sign this contract there would a refund.

Not necessarily true. Ultimately you're back to the understanding and integrity of the parties involved. While a written agreement may serve to spell out the issues better than they could be otherwise (but not always), an overly complicated agreement may make it worse. Taking any type of legal action is pretty much out of the question unless one is where they could take it to small claims court.

 

[denegate]

Not necessarily true. Ultimately you're back to the understanding and integrity of the parties involved. While a written agreement may serve to spell out the issues better than they could be otherwise (but not always), an overly complicated agreement may make it worse. Taking any type of legal action is pretty much out of the question unless one is where they could take it to small claims court.

You are correct and perhaps this contract is overly complicated for such a transaction. I wasn't considering that. Personally I liked the detail but I see your point. It's probably best as a member to just have a no refund policy BUT equally important would be that the member makes this point crystal clear to the renter right off the bat. Thanks for your input, I've enjoyed the discussion, you have opened my eyes a bit more on this subject.

 

[JimC]

You are correct and perhaps this contract is overly complicated for such a transaction. I wasn't considering that. Personally I liked the detail but I see your point. It's probably best as a member to just have a no refund policy BUT equally important would be that the member makes this point crystal clear to the renter right off the bat. Thanks for your input, I've enjoyed the discussion, you have opened my eyes a bit more on this subject.

A point rental transaction is largely an agreement of trust. Reducing an agreement to writing clarifies responsibilities, helps prevent missed communication and complies with DVC requirements. The sample Doc posted for me, then I later updated based on comments tries to cover a variety of situations that may be appropriate. Each individual should decide how much detail is appropriate. Reading through the posts in this thread and others on renting one can easily see that the problems are in the details that often go unconsidered until a problem arises.. As the saying goes, "Its never a problem, until it is."

 

[TiszBear]

subscribing as this topic has come up in my family recently.

 

[JimMIA]

If you were to sign this contract there would a refund.

A contract only does two things for you.

It spells out the responsibilities and obligations of both parties, which hopefully helps clarify the expectations for the transaction. In my view - and I suspect, in Dean's - anything which does not add to clarity probably detracts. For example, "reasonable efforts to rebook" or some such language. What is "reasonable"? To me that might be one try. To you, it might mean try until I succeed.

The other thing a contract does is it hopefully gives you sound footing for a lawsuit to enforce the terms of the contract. But a lawsuit for a small amount like this would be cost-prohibitive.

So a contract does not guarantee anything...even if it says it guarantees something. It just gives you a tool to use to try to enforce your understanding of the transaction. And you may not be successful.

 

[JimC]

DVC does say in its master deed that rental agreements must be in writing and include certain language. After that the length, terms and formality are up to the individuals involved.

 

[trebor209]

What an eye opener. Thanks all!

 

[miprender]

I just read this whole thread and have 1 question. We are considering renting points for our trip in April. We would like the Dining Plan and park tickets. Who do we pay for that?

I know the DVC member must add that on, but can we pay this when we get to our resort or do we pay the member we are renting from.

Thanks.

 

[HookdonWDW]

You don't pay for dining or park tickets until you arrive at the resort. You would pay the front desk for them once you arrive. HTH.