Education budget cuts

[sparklynails23]

To be honest (and commit a deadly sin) I think $40k for a teacher in NC is about right. Plus, the supply of elementary teachers is so bloated in most areas that schools don't have to pay much, but if you have a strong teacher's union, you'll get paid more than $40k, and more power to you.

Where can you cut costs in schools? Well, administration is a great place to start. Where a district used to have 1 superintendent and 3 principals, and a guidance counselor, you now have a superintendent, aan asst. superintendent, a business manager, an accountant, the district lawyer, a guidance couselor for each school level, the school psychologist, a gifted coordinator for each school level, a social worker, etc. It's gotten ridiculous. Also, in areas where school attendance is shrinking, schools need to merge.

As for building costs being separate from operational costs. The budget might be different to the schools, but they're all just more taxes to the paying public. If you're paying off a huge bond for a mega-building, you aren't going to pay extra for more teaches and smaller classes. That just makes sense.

 

[perdidochas]

FL is getting downright scary. We have no income tax and a gov that wants to lower taxes. Except he wants to impose a 5% income tax on state employees, teachers, firefighters and police to plug the deficit gap.

The governor's budget will not pass, especially the above. Most of the Republicans in the FL legislature think it's foolish.

 

[SOnotLayuh]

To be honest (and commit a deadly sin) I think $40k for a teacher in NC is about right. Plus, the supply of elementary teachers is so bloated in most areas that schools don't have to pay much, but if you have a strong teacher's union, you'll get paid more than $40k, and more power to you.

Where can you cut costs in schools? Well, administration is a great place to start. Where a district used to have 1 superintendent and 3 principals, and a guidance counselor, you now have a superintendent, aan asst. superintendent, a business manager, an accountant, the district lawyer, a guidance couselor for each school level, the school psychologist, a gifted coordinator for each school level, a social worker, etc. It's gotten ridiculous. Also, in areas where school attendance is shrinking, schools need to merge.

As for building costs being separate from operational costs. The budget might be different to the schools, but they're all just more taxes to the paying public. If you're paying off a huge bond for a mega-building, you aren't going to pay extra for more teaches and smaller classes. That just makes sense.

Why are NC teachers worth less than somewhere else?


I feel you, OP, our superintendent in CMS is making half a million a year and we haven't had a pay raise in 3 years either. I'm thinking that we won't be living in NC for too much longer... I'm working on my MA since I can't get hired in any schools around town. They closed 8 schools last year, and there are 10 on the chopping block this year - just within our district! Our class sizes are approaching 50, and new teachers are just not being offered positions anywhere since teachers with experience are willing to settle for 33,000$ a year.

 

[perdidochas]

Our state wants to raise the amount teachers pay for their benefits and pensions. Perfect way to same millions yet the teachers union has pulled out the it "will hurt our children" ads instead of saying "it will hurt us and we don't like it"

I would like to know how that hurts our kids, no programs are being cut, truth is, It doesn't. and something has to be done.

Is it fair to reduce someone's salary who is under a current contract? Their pension is part of their salary. If you make them pay for their pension from their salary, that's the same as giving them a demotion.

I don't think so. The thing is, FL teachers can barely survive on their current income. A 5% drop in income will hurt them. I know it would hurt me.

If Floridians had really cared about reducing the cost of education, they should have repealed the ridiculous class size amendment.

 

[perdidochas]

Nah they won't be leaving with their rate of pay , not here. And you know what there are thousands for every opening and they aren't all bad, especially considering some of the terrible ones that don't leave thanks to tenure.

Plus it hasn't happened in the private sector so isn't going to happen here either.

Tenure in Florida isn't much protection if the teacher is incompetent. The problem is if they fire all the certified incompetent teachers, the only people to replace them are uncertified incompetents.

Also, teacher's insurance in Florida is terrible, unlike the way it is in most states.

 

[golfgal]

To be honest (and commit a deadly sin) I think $40k for a teacher in NC is about right. Plus, the supply of elementary teachers is so bloated in most areas that schools don't have to pay much, but if you have a strong teacher's union, you'll get paid more than $40k, and more power to you.

Where can you cut costs in schools? Well, administration is a great place to start. Where a district used to have 1 superintendent and 3 principals, and a guidance counselor, you now have a superintendent, aan asst. superintendent, a business manager, an accountant, the district lawyer, a guidance couselor for each school level, the school psychologist, a gifted coordinator for each school level, a social worker, etc. It's gotten ridiculous. Also, in areas where school attendance is shrinking, schools need to merge.

As for building costs being separate from operational costs. The budget might be different to the schools, but they're all just more taxes to the paying public. If you're paying off a huge bond for a mega-building, you aren't going to pay extra for more teaches and smaller classes. That just makes sense.

This is a perfect example of why just saying teachers make too much is not a good argument. In our area a single mom with one child making $40K would qualify for food stamps--which means a lot of teachers here qualify for food stamps--pretty sad if you ask me

As for cutting administration--not all districts have those positions and the ones that do are larger districts. Some districts in our state the principal IS the superintendent and the athletic director--but then again, they only have about 500 kids in their district. When you get into districts with 20,000+ students, you NEED various levels of administration. Also keep in mind that the superintendent of a school district, at least in our state, has a PhD and a position comparable to the CEO of a corporation--SO even if a Superintendent is making $500,000/year (which I find hard to believe) that is still about $2,000,000+ LESS then a comparable position in the public sector.

 

[golfgal]

Is it fair to reduce someone's salary who is under a current contract? Their pension is part of their salary. If you make them pay for their pension from their salary, that's the same as giving them a demotion.

I don't think so. The thing is, FL teachers can barely survive on their current income. A 5% drop in income will hurt them. I know it would hurt me.

If Floridians had really cared about reducing the cost of education, they should have repealed the ridiculous class size amendment.

It is also a common misconception that teachers don't pay for their pensions. Teachers in most states are REQUIRED to put X dollars into their pensions-with no choice what so ever. In our state it is 10%. How much does YOUR company (general you, not specific you) REQUIRE you to put into your retirement plan.

 

[okeydokey]

The governor's budget will not pass, especially the above. Most of the Republicans in the FL legislature think it's foolish.

That's what I keep telling co-workers. He can just propose.

I'm sure it will not pass as he has proposed it, but I know the direction things are heading. Time will tell.

 

[perdidochas]

It is also a common misconception that teachers don't pay for their pensions. Teachers in most states are REQUIRED to put X dollars into their pensions-with no choice what so ever. In our state it is 10%. How much does YOUR company (general you, not specific you) REQUIRE you to put into your retirement plan.

Well, in FL, they don't pay for their pensions directly. That's what the governor is proposing--that they start doing that. I think it's wrong, on general principles, unless it was associated with a pay raise. It's basically a gimmick, IMHO. I even voted for the governor in the election, but he claimed that he would hold education neutral, which he didn't do.

 

[perdidochas]

That's what I keep telling co-workers. He can just propose.

I'm sure it will not pass as he has proposed it, but I know the direction things are heading. Time will tell.

The real problem is the foolish class size amendment, which was nice in theory, but is costing a lot of extra money and causing schools to get rid of advanced classes.

 

[golfgal]

The real problem is the foolish class size amendment, which was nice in theory, but is costing a lot of extra money and causing schools to get rid of advanced classes.

Well, that's the way to "improve" education--NOT

Do you run into issues with the retirement crowd there and them not voting for school referendums and such? Just curious.

 

[perdidochas]

Congress should be looking at all of the foreign aid (via the Sate Dept.) that we "taxpayers" shell out to other countries.

Foreign aid is almost no part of the budget. Total foreign aid (including military aid) was only $50 billion ($33 billion economic aid, 16 billion military aid).

Also, it is time to start looking at the social services programs that again taxpayers are funding. The state has some crazy iseas. A good example os my sister, has 3 kids by 3 diff fathers and the county has custody of all 3, yet she gets free medical, food stamps, housing, plus others. She recently assulted someone and was in jail for 3 months!!! The county gave her all of the back money she "earned" why she was in jail. So basically she was paid twice. She was feed, housed, and cared for in jail and then we handed her her missed funds while she was in jail. what does she need that money for??? if her needs were already met. The minute she was released social services was there to pick her up and bring her to her "new" home with the boyfriend she assulted (who also receives social services)!!! Crazy, crazy world!!!

If this is happening in my small county I can only imagine how much it is happening on the national level!!!

The problem is that the federal government is overstepping the bounds set on it by the Constitution.

 

[snowywhite89]

It is also a common misconception that teachers don't pay for their pensions. Teachers in most states are REQUIRED to put X dollars into their pensions-with no choice what so ever. In our state it is 10%. How much does YOUR company (general you, not specific you) REQUIRE you to put into your retirement plan.

What pension. I have to fund my own 401k and I am forced to pay SS and Medicare out of my salary and I don't get more money to do it. Most if not all teachers do not pay into SS or Medicare.

 

[sparklynails23]

This is a perfect example of why just saying teachers make too much is not a good argument. In our area a single mom with one child making $40K would qualify for food stamps--which means a lot of teachers here qualify for food stamps--pretty sad if you ask me

As for cutting administration--not all districts have those positions and the ones that do are larger districts. Some districts in our state the principal IS the superintendent and the athletic director--but then again, they only have about 500 kids in their district. When you get into districts with 20,000+ students, you NEED various levels of administration. Also keep in mind that the superintendent of a school district, at least in our state, has a PhD and a position comparable to the CEO of a corporation--SO even if a Superintendent is making $500,000/year (which I find hard to believe) that is still about $2,000,000+ LESS then a comparable position in the public sector.

$40k is enough in rural NC, especially for primary teachers. Is it alot? No.

As for comparing a superintendent to a CEO? Come on. They don't have to invest, maximize profits, make capital expenditures (the school board does this), compete. Their duties have expanded to some extent in the area of special ed and college prep, but it's not significantly different than it has always been. Half a million dollars is ridiculous for a superintendent. $120k is about right, but only if they're doing the business manager's job, as well. Really, how hard is it? Get with the teachers to develop curriculum. Manage a set budget. Deal with personnel issues. Individual student issues are handled by principals.

 

[perdidochas]

Well, that's the way to "improve" education--NOT

Do you run into issues with the retirement crowd there and them not voting for school referendums and such? Just curious.

In this case, it's the opposite. The well intentioned class size amendment was meant to reduce class sizes in the schools. It does that. Unfortunately, it gives schools no flexibility on this issue. The maximum class size for middle school is 22 students. If you have, for example, 23 6th graders and 21 7th graders in a school, the system would have to have 3 teachers. Two for the 6th graders, one for the 7th graders. This year, there was an attempt to have that class size amendment modified, so that instead of having an absolute class size of 22, they would have a 22 average, with a max of 27 students. The retirees didn't vote their pocketbook (which would have been better).

Anyway, the absolute limit is in effect, and so if a school would have had an advanced class (or remedial class) of 18, they couldn't average it out. This has the effect of making every class the same, as it's cost efficient.

 

[perdidochas]

What pension. I have to fund my own 401k and I am forced to pay SS and Medicare out of my salary and I don't get more money to do it. Most if not all teachers do not pay into SS or Medicare.

That's incorrect for the Southeast. I taught for 5 yrs in Georgia in the 1990s, and assuredly was not true (I paid SS, medicare, and payed into a retirement plan (matched by the employer)). The same for the 3 yrs I taught in Alabama. My wife teaches in Florida, and while she gets retirement paid for, she has an expensive insurance plan ($450 monthly for a single person), and she does pay into both SS and Medicare.

 

[golfgal]

What pension. I have to fund my own 401k and I am forced to pay SS and Medicare out of my salary and I don't get more money to do it. Most if not all teachers do not pay into SS or Medicare.

That is no where NEAR TRUE. You are sadly misinformed.

 

[snowywhite89]

That is no where NEAR TRUE. You are sadly misinformed.

All the teachers I know do not pay into SS. They are in many different states.

 

[Rumpus]

That is no where NEAR TRUE. You are sadly misinformed.

It is quite true and in many states they do not contribute to their retirement; the taxpayer does.

September 7, 2006 2006-R-0547

(Revised September 28, 2006)

TEACHERS AND SOCIAL SECURITY

Public school teachers in Connecticut are not covered by Social Security for their public school teaching service. Teachers and school districts make no contributions to the Social Security system for that work and teachers cannot collect benefits based on it. Instead, the state provides teachers with retirement benefits through the state Teachers' Retirement System (TRS).

This report answers frequently asked questions about (1) why teachers are not covered, (2) other states that have similar Social Security exclusions, (3) federal benefit reductions that apply when teachers qualify for Social Security from other employment, and (4) what the state would have to do to include teachers under Social Security.

WHY ARE CONNECTICUT TEACHERS EXCLUDED FROM SOCIAL SECURITY FOR PUBLIC SCHOOL TEACHING SERVICE?

When Congress passed the Social Security Act in 1935, it excluded federal, state, and local government employees from mandatory coverage. The exclusion for state and local public employees was based on constitutional concerns about whether the federal government could impose taxes on state governments. In the early 1950s, Congress passed a law that allowed state and local government employees to be covered if they voluntarily chose coverage in a referendum. The then-members of the Teachers' Retirement System voted against joining the Social Security system. In 1959, at the request of the Connecticut Education Association, the General Assembly prohibited TRS members from holding another referendum (CGS § 5-158(d)). The ban on Social Security coverage for Connecticut teachers remains in place.

WHICH STATES EXCLUDE TEACHERS FROM SOCIAL SECURITY?

Fourteen states, including Connecticut, do not provide Social Security coverage for teachers. These states have so-called “independent” retirement systems for teachers and, in some cases, other public employees.

The 14 states with independent retirement systems for teachers are:

Alaska


Maine

California


Massachusetts

Colorado


Minnesota

Connecticut


Missouri

Illinois


Nevada

Kentucky


Ohio

Louisiana


Texas

http://www.cga.ct.gov/2006/rpt/2006-R-0547.htm

 

[golfgal]

It is quite true and in many states they do not contribute to their retirement; the taxpayer does.

http://www.cga.ct.gov/2006/rpt/2006-R-0547.htm

A lot has changed since 2006 too--I know for a fact that teachers in MN contribute to SS--and we are on that list. OLDER teachers that are under the old retirement plans may not but they are required to contribute 13% of their check into the pension plan too-which is WAY more then they would if it was SS.