Education budget cuts

[mnrose]

I heard a great discussion about this yesterday. It went something like this.

Everyone agrees the deficit should be cut. Yup, this does seem like a no brainer.

Most everyone would not like their taxes (of any kind...property or income) raised to do this.

So, what does that leave? Duh. You need to cut spending.

Here's the problem: no one actually wants to give up "their" government spending. We (collective we) hate the government spending, but we LOVE our government programs.

The ONLY area where you can get a majority of Americans to agree SHOULD be cut is foreign aid spending, and (I hate to break it to you) cutting this 100% starting tomorrow would have virtually NO impact on the deficit.

The big kahunas that you need to address in the spending realm are defense (and here, Congress is currently is proposing an INCREASE, not a decrease) and the so-called "third rail" of Social Security and Medicare. Together, these account for nearly 80% of the US Budget.

You cannot get there from here without addressing those.

Or agreeing that we MUST raise taxes back to what they were during the Reagan years.

Probably both.

It's time to wake up and start talking facts. Both parties are blowing smoke up our butts.

Drives me nuts.

 

[golfgal]

I have ZERO issues with raising taxes. I just don't know how people think you can't raise taxes when the cost of everything goes up each year. You have to at LEAST keep up with that. After living in a "low tax" state, I GLADLY pay our higher taxes in MN . Like the old adage says, "you get what you pay for".

 

[torinsmom]

But the cost of living in your town might be triple what it is in the OP's town and then she would be making even LESS money, net.

We are lucky that our district was in pretty good shape before all of this started. Our state requires districts to hold 5% of their operating costs in reserve, we hold 10%. That extra money can now be used to make up about 2 years worth of cuts from the state. There is also federal money for teachers and with that money available they were able to offer early retirement to about 70 teachers in our district. They will then be able to hire 70 new teachers at half the cost, giving us another couple years worth of cushion. Many districts around us are not as lucky and are having major cuts, closing schools, hiking up activity fees to over $500/sport/activity, cutting programs, etc. I can also see an influx of families open enrolling into our district from surrounding districts that have had such huge cuts-which also helps our bottom line (we have statewide open enrollment free to families but their tax dollars follow them).

I am so sorry to hear this is spilling over into the state employees now. To my mind this was inevitable, if anything I'm surprised they were able to push things out this far. If private sector folks don't have jobs they can't pay taxes on income or property, if no-one is paying taxes then governments that collect taxes don't have an income stream which means they can't pay anything and that's why the deficit keeps growing & growing. I've been watching the budgets and shaking my head wondering what nit-wits were drawing up these financial disasters. Budgets are based upon past trends but when it hit the fan over 2 years ago everything kept on like there wasn't going to be fall out... what on earth were the administrators thinking?

I don't think anyone did us any favors trying to smoke the hive All I can say is I hope people see the writing on the wall and start preparing themselves.

It's not just hitting our state employees now. We had a 3 day furlough two years ago and its been three years since teachers got a raise(although central services keeps getting theirs....hmmm) Our county has millions of dollars in their "rainy day" fund, but have refused to release it for education. I can't say I blame them. If they release it, the state will probably cut things even more.

 

[sparklynails23]

Well then organize and unionize. No one's going to look out for your best interests except you. Around here, the education funding seems to be constantly going toward the Taj Mahal buildings, but the teachers are still paid well and their benefits can't be beat.

 

[golfgal]

Well then organize and unionize. No one's going to look out for your best interests except you. Around here, the education funding seems to be constantly going toward the Taj Mahal buildings, but the teachers are still paid well and their benefits can't be beat.

While I agree that some districts overbuild schools, operating budgets and building budgets are separate and can't be co mingled. You still get hit with property tax increases but if they budget $100,000,000 for a building and only use $90,000,000, they can't shift that excess over to an operating budget. One district near us is running into problems because they have had to build so many new schools and people won't vote to support any more tax increases, many because they don't understand this difference, but many because they just don't want to have their taxes go up---nevermind that the tax increase would be less then having ONE child in ONE activity

 

[DawnM]

Yes, there are difficulties, but at 17 years in the district, I had a LOT of seniority. I also had several credentials and could have gone back to teaching in a high need area if I had needed to in order to keep my job.

As far as benefits, I know not all districts covered what my district covered, but we had 100% covered for the entire family, and they still do according to friends who still work there. Sure, that could change, but it hasn't yet.

The opportunities to work while on break were great too if I needed extra cash. Here there is very limited opportunity to work extra and even if you do get a summer job, the pay is quite small.

Dawn

It's bad here in Cali too! Some district nolonger cover teacher health benefit 100% and some district are trying to get thier teachers to pay outta pocket for health care. Hours have been cut from classified, everyone is on edge from March to June not knowing if they will be laid off.

 

[Rumpus]

I have ZERO issues with raising taxes. I just don't know how people think you can't raise taxes when the cost of everything goes up each year. You have to at LEAST keep up with that. After living in a "low tax" state, I GLADLY pay our higher taxes in MN . Like the old adage says, "you get what you pay for".

Then get out your check book and write the check. Your state, local and federal government will gladly take whatever you are willing to send them. As for me, I see the problem as we don't have a revenue problem, we have a spending problem.

Well then organize and unionize. No one's going to look out for your best interests except you. Around here, the education funding seems to be constantly going toward the Taj Mahal buildings, but the teachers are still paid well and their benefits can't be beat.

Yup, that's the answer. Saddle more of the working public with unfunded state mandates and hold the taxpayers hostage to the unions. Sooner or later that goose is killed and the golden eggs run out.

 

[DawnM]

I think Florida is worse than NC! They seem to front load the salaries and those who have served years and years get very little in terms of increases.

Dawn

Our new Gov in Fl is proposing more cuts to education in a state that is already at the lowest in funding. He wants to cover the deficit and lower taxes as well even though our tax burden is already extremely low. Then he talks out of the other side of his mouth about improving education in FL?

 

[DawnM]

That is tough to do many times.

Selling a house these days is difficult for one. For me, DH's job is going very well, so we are in a good position even with me not working.

My kids love it here! They moved here when the older ones were 5 and 7, so they don't remember California as well anymore. They have their friends and groups and don't want to leave. We are settled.

Thankfully, I don't need to work and don't need to support us, if I were the only breadwinner we may have to look at something else. This would not have been where I would have chosen to live if I had been the one needing to work. We would have stayed in CA. We had a house there, purchased before 2000, so manageable payments.

Dawn

Perhaps the OP should consider moving to another state. In my state, my distric the first year Masters (MA +1) earns 51,555. A first year Bachelors is 48,555

 

[golfgal]

Then get out your check book and write the check. Your state, local and federal government will gladly take whatever you are willing to send them. As for me, I see the problem as we don't have a revenue problem, we have a spending problem.



Yup, that's the answer. Saddle more of the working public with unfunded state mandates and hold the taxpayers hostage to the unions. Sooner or later that goose is killed and the golden eggs run out.

I have and I do....While at the federal level it may be a "spending issue" at the school level, go spend some time in a school, any school, like a couple weeks worth and tell me that schools are really having "spending issues" and not revenue issues

 

[threecrazykids]

We will pay the price for this in the future. America is going down the toilet. Education is not a place to cut spending. It is crazy how the same people who complain that we are not keeping up with competing countries around the world and we are falling lower and lower on the scale think that taking money away from education is the answer? We should be constantly building the education budget, going to school longer, and moving towards more national standards.

I understand what you're saying, however I see a LOT of spending going on in my school district that I would find unnecessary. I think some schools fail to realize how lots of "little things" add up to several thousand dollars over the course of a year.

And given the amount of fundraisers my kids school does I find it quite disheartening. I counted 7...yes SEVEN fundraiser forms in my daughter's Friday Folder just this week.

What frustrates me is this - businesses (not just specifically schools) far and wide overspend and get bailed out over and over by our tax dollars. Yet we as taxpayers/citizens are scolded over and over to "live within our budget, make cuts, etc".

Schools really aren't any exception, they have a budget and times are tough for EVERYONE. They are going to have to feel the pinch as well...as sad as it is.

 

[golfgal]

I understand what you're saying, however I see a LOT of spending going on in my school district that I would find unnecessary. I think some schools fail to realize how lots of "little things" add up to several thousand dollars over the course of a year.

And given the amount of fundraisers my kids school does I find it quite disheartening. I counted 7...yes SEVEN fundraiser forms in my daughter's Friday Folder just this week.

What frustrates me is this - businesses (not just specifically schools) far and wide overspend and get bailed out over and over by our tax dollars. Yet we as taxpayers/citizens are scolded over and over to "live within our budget, make cuts, etc".

Schools really aren't any exception, they have a budget and times are tough for EVERYONE. They are going to have to feel the pinch as well...as sad as it is.

So give specific examples of what you think could be cut? Also, those 7 fundraisers are supporting programs somewhere...

 

[threecrazykids]

So give specific examples of what you think could be cut? Also, those 7 fundraisers are supporting programs somewhere...

I know these are little things, but for example...at our school, by the gym there are these flashing boards that show upcoming events...like a digital display board. That board was $3500 (not sure if they did a fundraiser for it, I know I surely wouldn't have contributed to it), not to mention the electricity it costs to run it.

All the flyers that are sent home are always on colored paper, why not white? White is cheaper. Why not send these things over email? The amount of paper sent home is absolutely ridiculous! Instead of giving the kids paper to write on all the time, why don't they use small dry erase boards?

Using the same books for more than 1 year! Better yet, ditch the books altogether. There are hundreds of free online educational sites. Also, if you do opt for using books and they come with a workbook (which at the end of the year, my kids workbooks are literally half unused) then negotiate a better price without the workbooks. OR, print worksheets off of the internet if you're going to be using that much paper anyway.

Put a freeze on travel, materials, supplies, etc unless it is absolutely necessary to carry out the performance of educating students.

Janitorial staff could possibly work part time versus full time? Is it 100% necessary for all rooms to be swept every single night? Could it be every other night temporarily?

I just wonder how many things could be donated each year to a school if parents were asked. Magazine subscriptions, computers, classroom games, books for the library, etc.

 

[golfgal]

I know these are little things, but for example...at our school, by the gym there are these flashing boards that show upcoming events...like a digital display board. That board was $3500 (not sure if they did a fundraiser for it, I know I surely wouldn't have contributed to it), not to mention the electricity it costs to run it.

All the flyers that are sent home are always on colored paper, why not white? White is cheaper. Why not send these things over email? The amount of paper sent home is absolutely ridiculous! Instead of giving the kids paper to write on all the time, why don't they use small dry erase boards?

Using the same books for more than 1 year! Better yet, ditch the books altogether. There are hundreds of free online educational sites. Also, if you do opt for using books and they come with a workbook (which at the end of the year, my kids workbooks are literally half unused) then negotiate a better price without the workbooks. OR, print worksheets off of the internet if you're going to be using that much paper anyway.

Put a freeze on travel, materials, supplies, etc unless it is absolutely necessary to carry out the performance of educating students.

Janitorial staff could possibly work part time versus full time? Is it 100% necessary for all rooms to be swept every single night? Could it be every other night temporarily?

I just wonder how many things could be donated each year to a school if parents were asked. Magazine subscriptions, computers, classroom games, books for the library, etc.

Flashing light thing--most of those are either donated or used as fundraisers for schools-anything non-school usually has a fee to promote their activity. Even if it is just a few things/year, they are usually self-supporting and actually make money for schools--same with pop machines, unfortunately.

Not everyone has access to a computer or internet which answers the why for most of your cuts. Our school has moved toward and online system for assignments and textbooks but still have to have textbooks for kids that don't have internet and honestly, reading a textbook online is REALLY difficult.

Workbooks save money. It is less expensive then printing off pages from the internet because you have to pay for the machines to handle that volume AND someone to run that machine, collate the papers, etc.

Exactly what travel and supplies would you cut? It's easy to say those things but back them up with what you mean and why you don't think they are necessary?

Janitorial staff--have you BEEN in an elementary classroom after all the kids have gone home? It IS necessary to clean those daily. I know in our high school they are not cleaned daily, they are cleaned on a rotating schedule every couple days. Also, most states require a custodial person to be in the building at all times to monitor the heating/cooling systems and such.

Don't your schools ask for donations for those things? Ours do and have for years. If yours don't, it would be a great project for you to start. Our kids' old elementary school had a great program--the Birthday book. On their birthday, kids had the option of donating a book to the library and they had a special label (a parent printed them off at home) that was attached to the book. The child donating the book got to read that book to his/her class before it went on the shelf so they were the "first" person to use that book. Each year that brought in over 300 books for the library.

Point being, you see these things as wasted money when they are quite necessary.

 

[kamik86]

I have and I do....While at the federal level it may be a "spending issue" at the school level, go spend some time in a school, any school, like a couple weeks worth and tell me that schools are really having "spending issues" and not revenue issues

There is a chance that this has changed since I was in school but I will 100% say my high school had spending issues while I was a student there. They ended up not replacing any teachers that quit so we only had 1 history teacher (other classes were taught my english teachers with history minors... which the teachers hated and it showed) for my senior year. Yet we were printing way more then needed to be printed, had 3-4 computers in every classroom that I rarely saw turned on, only 1 was used often for the teacher to use during planning times (Note I had no problems with the ones in labs, tech classes, etc that were actually used!). We spent a ton of money on books we werne't using so we could be considered a 100% participating school in a VICA program. (plus the dues etc for those that never did anything in it)

One day they decided the school had no school spirit so they cancelled classes for half the day to give us a whole bunch of window markers and to spend the day writing on the huge picture windows that go out to the court yard.... oh but the day the heat is turned on and off is decided in a calender months before when the school is in MA so we have no heat on some really cold days for budget issues (and then sometimes blasting heat on warm days as well...)

Now maybe all this has changed in the 7 years since I graduated high school but if other people are remembering things like this from their own school I understand why education budgets look like a good place to cut.

 

[okeydokey]

I think Florida is worse than NC! They seem to front load the salaries and those who have served years and years get very little in terms of increases.

Dawn

FL is getting downright scary. We have no income tax and a gov that wants to lower taxes. Except he wants to impose a 5% income tax on state employees, teachers, firefighters and police to plug the deficit gap.

 

[threecrazykids]

Flashing light thing--most of those are either donated or used as fundraisers for schools-anything non-school usually has a fee to promote their activity. Even if it is just a few things/year, they are usually self-supporting and actually make money for schools--same with pop machines, unfortunately.

Not everyone has access to a computer or internet which answers the why for most of your cuts. Our school has moved toward and online system for assignments and textbooks but still have to have textbooks for kids that don't have internet and honestly, reading a textbook online is REALLY difficult.

Workbooks save money. It is less expensive then printing off pages from the internet because you have to pay for the machines to handle that volume AND someone to run that machine, collate the papers, etc.

Exactly what travel and supplies would you cut? It's easy to say those things but back them up with what you mean and why you don't think they are necessary?

Janitorial staff--have you BEEN in an elementary classroom after all the kids have gone home? It IS necessary to clean those daily. I know in our high school they are not cleaned daily, they are cleaned on a rotating schedule every couple days. Also, most states require a custodial person to be in the building at all times to monitor the heating/cooling systems and such.

Don't your schools ask for donations for those things? Ours do and have for years. If yours don't, it would be a great project for you to start. Our kids' old elementary school had a great program--the Birthday book. On their birthday, kids had the option of donating a book to the library and they had a special label (a parent printed them off at home) that was attached to the book. The child donating the book got to read that book to his/her class before it went on the shelf so they were the "first" person to use that book. Each year that brought in over 300 books for the library.

Point being, you see these things as wasted money when they are quite necessary.

Like I said, these are just ideas. I don't know that any of these are 100% doable. When referring to the cleaning of the classrooms I was thinking more at the high school level.

Workbooks? Our school needs to either opt to purchase workbooks they will use the majority of the pages, or cut them and print things off. Every single year my kids come home with workbooks that are more than half unused.

No, not all kids have access to the internet, but cutting some of the book costs for those who do would help. Also, sending emails to the parents who opt for paperless notification would save paper as well for all informational sheets.

As far as travel, I'm not referring to cutting field trips because the parents already foot the cost of those. Transportation probably would be a better word. The amount of kids some school districts bus could be looked at.

Again, these are not 100% fool proof ways...my point was simply that little things add up.

 

[golfgal]

There is a chance that this has changed since I was in school but I will 100% say my high school had spending issues while I was a student there. They ended up not replacing any teachers that quit so we only had 1 history teacher (other classes were taught my english teachers with history minors... which the teachers hated and it showed) for my senior year. Yet we were printing way more then needed to be printed, had 3-4 computers in every classroom that I rarely saw turned on, only 1 was used often for the teacher to use during planning times (Note I had no problems with the ones in labs, tech classes, etc that were actually used!). We spent a ton of money on books we werne't using so we could be considered a 100% participating school in a VICA program. (plus the dues etc for those that never did anything in it)

One day they decided the school had no school spirit so they cancelled classes for half the day to give us a whole bunch of window markers and to spend the day writing on the huge picture windows that go out to the court yard.... oh but the day the heat is turned on and off is decided in a calender months before when the school is in MA so we have no heat on some really cold days for budget issues (and then sometimes blasting heat on warm days as well...)

Now maybe all this has changed in the 7 years since I graduated high school but if other people are remembering things like this from their own school I understand why education budgets look like a good place to cut.

Again, the computers could very well have been donated or purchased for a VERY low cost. Apple often gives schools computers--because then they buy their software, etc. Our school just got new computers for the computer labs and the "old" computers were put into classrooms or sold on Ebay (which generated enough money to pay for about 1/2 of the new computers). Again, a kid in high school doesn't really see all that goes on behind the scenes either.

Like I said, these are just ideas. I don't know that any of these are 100% doable. When referring to the cleaning of the classrooms I was thinking more at the high school level.

Workbooks? Our school needs to either opt to purchase workbooks they will use the majority of the pages, or cut them and print things off. Every single year my kids come home with workbooks that are more than half unused.

No, not all kids have access to the internet, but cutting some of the book costs for those who do would help. Also, sending emails to the parents who opt for paperless notification would save paper as well for all informational sheets.

As far as travel, I'm not referring to cutting field trips because the parents already foot the cost of those. Transportation probably would be a better word. The amount of kids some school districts bus could be looked at.

Again, these are not 100% fool proof ways...my point was simply that little things add up.

Price out workbooks and then price out several reams of paper and your answer to that issue will be solved. A workbook probably costs a school under $2, but the paper, ink and time it would take to duplicate the pages used would be MUCH more then that.

Transportation is one area where districts can cut. I don't know what your busing program looks like but here if you live a mile or more from school OR have to cross a "dangerous" road, you get bussed. If you live closer then that, you can pay an annual fee for the bus. Transportation is a large part of any district budget, especially if you contract with a bus service.

 

[kamik86]

Like I said, these are just ideas. I don't know that any of these are 100% doable. When referring to the cleaning of the classrooms I was thinking more at the high school level.

Workbooks? Our school needs to either opt to purchase workbooks they will use the majority of the pages, or cut them and print things off. Every single year my kids come home with workbooks that are more than half unused.

No, not all kids have access to the internet, but cutting some of the book costs for those who do would help. Also, sending emails to the parents who opt for paperless notification would save paper as well for all informational sheets.

As far as travel, I'm not referring to cutting field trips because the parents already foot the cost of those. Transportation probably would be a better word. The amount of kids some school districts bus could be looked at.

Again, these are not 100% fool proof ways...my point was simply that little things add up.

I like this idea... I don't have kids yet but honestly if I have a child like me I would rather get papers emailed to me... the email will not get lost between the classroom and home or forgotten about until right before the deadline, or left in the backpack etc.

For the transportation I don't think that can be done. there may be a school or 2 busing more kids then need be but most schools are busing the minimum number required by law.

 

[Hannathy]

Our state wants to raise the amount teachers pay for their benefits and pensions. Perfect way to same millions yet the teachers union has pulled out the it "will hurt our children" ads instead of saying "it will hurt us and we don't like it"

I would like to know how that hurts our kids, no programs are being cut, truth is, It doesn't. and something has to be done.