ECV's On Disney Buses.... mini rant, please no bashing.

[disneynutz]

The issue here is miss directed. It isn't about ECV users staying on their ECV's or people not giving up their seat when you want it, the real issue is that Disney needs to add additional busses.

I suggest that we let them know how we feel, because if we don't, things will never change.

Please send a email to Guest Communications: wdw.guest.communications@disneyworld.com

 

[DisneyKevin]

The issue here is miss directed. It isn't about ECV users staying on their ECV's or people not giving up their seat when you want it, the real issue is that Disney needs to add additional busses.

I suggest that we let them know how we feel, because if we don't, things will never change.

Please send a email to Guest Communications: wdw.guest.communications@disneyworld.com

This is a great idea.

I think the thing that surprises me is that it's not the folks using the ECVs or wheelchairs that are the ones complaining.

You dont usually hear the complaint that one out of 20 bathroom stalls is accessible.

You dont hear complaints that most attractions have one or two vehicles capable of accommodating people in ECVs or chairs so that those in need have to wait for that one specific vehicle to come back.

You dont hear them complaining that busses drive right past them because "they werent seen".

The folks that need an ECV or wheelchair understand that Disney is head and shoulders above the rest of the world when it comes to stuff like this. They realize that the majority of places they have to go are 1000 times more difficult to navigate and they are grateful for the things Disney does.

I am going to sort of quote Skip (Justin Jett). I'm sure he wont mind and if I'm off...I'm sure this thread will catch his attention and he'll correct me. Skip is confined to a wheelchair.

He said something along the lines of..."Disney is the only place I feel really free."

I travel with someone confined to a a wheelchair, so I get a very, very small, diluted idea of what folks face and as I have said before....spend some time in a chair or ECV and you'll never ever forget how lucky you are.

 

[katscradle]

My only beef is with the giant family that is with the person on the ECV who get to enter the bus before all the people waiting in line. I understand if a few people go on first (spouse, caretaker, etc.), but when there is a line full of people waiting for a bus and just before the bus pulls up, an ECV and their clan stroll up, and expect to get on before the rest of the group who has been waiting. That is not fair. You are perfectly able to wait in line like the rest of the people.

I am with you on this one Jen!
I have been waiting in line for a bus and have a gruop of 12 show up with 1 ECV, and they all get on first. It can make you really angry if you are farther back in the line and do not end up even being able to get on the bus.
To the OP, I am surprised no one got up and offered you the seat. I would have, and have done so before for someone carrying a child. I would be very upset by this....
Disney needs to draw a line with how many people can get on with the ECV.
I figure the rest should have to take their place in line. Just my opinion.

 

[eeyorethegreat]

Mom uses an ECV at WDW. She can walk but she can not walk long distances. Yes, perhaps she is one of the people that you (using the word you in general terms not specifically to one person) snickered at when she parked the cart and walked through the regular queue line. Perhaps you snickered at her when she was having difficulty geting the ECV onto the bus and then parked in the appropriate place. Perhaps you snickerd and complained just loud enough for us to hear about how unfair it was that we got on the bus before you - and will you look at the size of our party! Perhaps you were insulted that she was asked to transfer from the ECV to a regular seat for the duration of our bus ride. Do you really think that your whispered insults and glares that could melt glass and even an occassion foul word goes unnoticed by us? No I am pretty sure you intend for us to see and hear.

I'll tell you this. We are a quiet family. We do not like to draw attention to ourselves, unfortunately having the priveledge of bringing Mom with us also requires us to draw attention to ourselves every single time we have to get on and off a bus. We draw attention every time we find a place to park the ECV so Mom can walk into the restaurant without it or through a queue line. She does this for YOUR convienece not hers, so you won't complain about her unintentionally nudging your chair in a restaurant where tables are packed too close to manuever through or so you won't complain when she goes into a "special" line to board a ride. I will also tell you this, we have waited for over 2 hours to board a bus to get to the park while you got on the bus with out a qualm, even though we were at the bus stop well before you arrived. While you were enjoying your entrance to the park, we were still being told "sorry, next bus". We are the family who sat and waited until the bus lines thinned out so that you could get on that packed bus full of stinking people at the end of the night without having to wait. And yet someone still managed to complain. We are the family that had to wait because Disney contracted to another bus company at the end of the night and those buses were not equipped to transport ECVs. We were hot we were tired and yet, we didn't complain. We are the big family that boards together because after trying to stay in the regular line so as not to upset you, we were chastized in front of the other guests one too many times that ALL of us should board with Mom. We are also the family that stands (except Mom) when we get on the bus first- even my tired, hot kids, so that you can have a seat. Yet instead of a thank you or nod of appreciation, you still complain that Mom's scooter is taking up too much room. I can also tell you that the cost of renting said scooter does not give us any great joy. Or that seeing my proud Mom having to use one brings me any more joy.

Kevin, Once again you have put it so well! I really should have cards made up and pass them out with your so called "rant" printed on them so I can hand them out to the people who insist on forgetting their pixie dust at home when it comes to this issue.

 

[dpuck1998]

Mom uses an ECV at WDW. She can walk but she can not walk long distances. Yes, perhaps she is one of the people that you (using the word you in general terms not specifically to one person) snickered at when she parked the cart and walked through the regular queue line. Perhaps you snickered at her when she was having difficulty geting the ECV onto the bus and then parked in the appropriate place. Perhaps you snickerd and complained just loud enough for us to hear about how unfair it was that we got on the bus before you - and will you look at the size of our party! Perhaps you were insulted that she was asked to transfer from the ECV to a regular seat for the duration of our bus ride. Do you really think that your whispered insults and glares that could melt glass and even an occassion foul word goes unnoticed by us? No I am pretty sure you intend for us to see and hear.

I'll tell you this. We are a quiet family. We do not like to draw attention to ourselves, unfortunately having the priveledge of bringing Mom with us also requires us to draw attention to ourselves every single time we have to get on and off a bus. We draw attention every time we find a place to park the ECV so Mom can walk into the restaurant without it or through a queue line. She does this for YOUR convienece not hers, so you won't complain about her unintentionally nudging your chair in a restaurant where tables are packed too close to manuever through or so you won't complain when she goes into a "special" line to board a ride. I will also tell you this, we have waited for over 2 hours to board a bus to get to the park while you got on the bus with out a qualm, even though we were at the bus stop well before you arrived. While you were enjoying your entrance to the park, we were still being told "sorry, next bus". We are the family who sat and waited until the bus lines thinned out so that you could get on that packed bus full of stinking people at the end of the night without having to wait. And yet someone still managed to complain. We are the family that had to wait because Disney contracted to another bus company at the end of the night and those buses were not equipped to transport ECVs. We were hot we were tired and yet, we didn't complain. We are the big family that boards together because after trying to stay in the regular line so as not to upset you, we were chastized in front of the other guests one too many times that ALL of us should board with Mom. We are also the family that stands (except Mom) when we get on the bus first- even my tired, hot kids, so that you can have a seat. Yet instead of a thank you or nod of appreciation, you still complain that Mom's scooter is taking up too much room. I can also tell you that the cost of renting said scooter does not give us any great joy. Or that seeing my proud Mom having to use one brings me any more joy.

Kevin, Once again you have put it so well! I really should have cards made up and pass them out with your so called "rant" printed on them so I can hand them out to the people who insist on forgetting their pixie dust at home when it comes to this issue.

I greatly appreciate your story and completely understand. However, the use of "you" was a bit much (even with the disclaimer). Most of "you/us" are not this way. The ones that you do speak of don't deserve the generic term "you" but "them". I am not one of them and reading the story is very offensive.

 

[katscradle]

I'm with you Frank. I seem to be at ease at Disney and don't seem to care what happens. However, push your way in front of me at a parade and all the meds in the world won't save you.

That's it the next time I see you watching a parade, I am going to step in front of you!

 

[DisneyKevin]

To the folks that believe we should limit the number of people getting on the bus...

Imagine that one of the folks in your party needs an ECV or wheelchair.

Imagine...as the poster above this has mentioned...that you waited two hours to get to the park because every bus able to accommodate an ECV was filled.

Imagine you waited longer at every attraction for that one car that could accommodate you.

Imagine that you cant "get lost in the magic" because you have to be hyper aware of everyone around you so that you dont accidentally hurt someone with your "vehicle".

Imagine not being able to get on or off the monorail without assiistance from the driver.

Are you with me so far?

Now imagine getting to the bus and having someone make a comment about you getting on the bus first...and we know thats a necessity because you cant load an ECV on a crowded bus....and now the bus driver tells you the two of your party cant board the bus with the ECV or wheelchair because they dont want to annoy the rest of the folks in line. What do you do if the person in the ECV or chaor is the other adult and you have kids and the party in the ECV needs assistance? Do you leave your kids in line to take the next bus?

Where do we draw the line as to who gets on the bus? Is it one, two three people? Do we quiz the folks in the ECV or wheelchair about their level of need for assistance? Do we make them feel even more de-hgumanized in order to not annoy people waiting in line?

Again...as I asked earlier.....id this really that big a deal?

 

[Cyrano]

Thanks Bill! I'm behind you 100%

I have said this before and it bears repeating.....unless you have all of the details regarding the need for an ECV, no one has the right to question the necessity of the device. No one.............

I'd like to say "rant over" but this subject will come up again, so it probably isnt.

Well said Kevin I was concerned when first reading through this thread. I hope I can keep my composure as well as you if I see any type of rude behaviour in person. Must not use the Glasgae kiss, must not use the Glasgae kiss

 

[FireDancer]

Again...as I asked earlier.....id this really that big a deal?

No, it really isn't. The majority of the time the ECV party is a normal size group and they should not be split up. On the rare occasion the ECV rider is with a huge group or 20 or 30 people maybe some common sense should be used but since I'm sure this is pretty rare it isn't worth getting in a battle over.

I'm too busy sitting on Don's shoulders watching the parade to care anyway.

 

[katscradle]

My mom won't come on a Disney trip with us as she would need an ECV.
I would have said something to the person that complained, that said ECV or wheelchair took up too much room. I don't look at it that way.
It is a part of that person.
I just think that people need to remember to just be polite on the buses.
I have had a sleeping child and always been offered a seat by some kind stanger on the bus. This is not something I forget, and other shouldn't either.
I look at the problems my mother has and would not want that for anything in the world.
DH has offered to take care of the costs and whatever else she might need to come with us, but sadly the answer is always no!
When we were on the cruise we had thought about booking a cruise for her and my step-father as we want them with us. When we came home I asked her if she would go, with us as DH would glady pay for everything just to have them with us and again she said no!
So all I can say is to those that are lucky enough to be able to share disney with a family member, even though there will be challenges. You are very lucky!

 

[eeyorethegreat]

I greatly appreciate your story and completely understand. However, the use of "you" was a bit much (even with the disclaimer). Most of "you/us" are not this way. The ones that you do speak of don't deserve the generic term "you" but "them". I am not one of them and reading the story is very offensive.

I apologize for offending you with the word "you". This word was certainly not directed at dpuck or anyone in particular. I suppose it could be said it was indirectly directed at those whose actions I mentioned. I guess I never imagined using the word "you" and asserting that it was used in general terms - so that no one would be offended, would offend someone. I am a sensitive person and to offend someone especially completely unintended saddens me. I have been the brunt of many careless remarks and hurtful deeds over my life and to be called out as one who evidently has done the hurting and offending saddens me more than you could imagine. Obviously, emotions run high on this topic and I should have known better than to get involved in this conversation regardless of what words I used. I generally steer clear of any conversation here that tends to get emmotions going for this very reason. I will step out now and once again dpuck apologize for offending you as was never, ever my intention to offend you personally or anyone on this board.
Sincerely,

 

[katscradle]

No, it really isn't. The majority of the time the ECV party is a normal size group and they should not be split up. On the rare occasion the ECV rider is with a huge group or 20 or 30 people maybe some common sense should be used but since I'm sure this is pretty rare it isn't worth getting in a battle over.

I'm too busy sitting on Don's shoulders watching the parade to care anyway.

We have only once come across a very large party with more than 12 people and one ECV in the party!
Comon sense whatever do you mean.

 

[fakereadhed]

Even though repeat threads can become tiresome when you already know the information, I always try to remind myself that they are only that way because I already learned from the DIS. I know how the buses work with ECVs and how Disney doesn't split up families so they will all board the buses together and that they put the ECVs on first for safety and logistics. It would be impossible to secure them with a bus full of people loaded on first. Common sense- but when you are standing in a line waiting for the bus it's not what you are thinking about.

We will keep seeing these ECV bus debates so Kevin better put that rant in a box and save it for later.

Disney could do a lot better job of educating its guests about how their transportation works instead of people getting frustrated, coming home and venting on the DIS before getting some answers. How about some signs to read waiting for the bus that explains how it will all work and TO MOVE TO THE BACK OF THE BUS ALREADY? (sorry- mini rant) Just my 2 cents.

 

[katscradle]

I apologize for offending you with the word "you". This word was certainly not directed at dpuck or anyone in particular. I suppose it could be said it was indirectly directed at those whose actions I mentioned. I guess I never imagined using the word "you" and asserting that it was used in general terms - so that no one would be offended, would offend someone. I am a sensitive person and to offend someone especially completely unintended saddens me. I have been the brunt of many careless remarks and hurtful deeds over my life and to be called out as one who evidently has done the hurting and offending saddens me more than you could imagine. Obviously, emotions run high on this topic and I should have known better than to get involved in this conversation regardless of what words I used. I generally steer clear of any conversation here that tends to get emmotions going for this very reason. I will step out now and once again dpuck apologize for offending you as was never, ever my intention to offend you personally or anyone on this board.
Sincerely,

This is a family here and you are part of that.
Don't step out, as you are a part of this family!
This is a place where we can express our thoughts and emotions.
There are some topics that will hit closer to home than others, just stay with it. In the end we all love and respect others for their opnions. That's what makes this place such a wonderful place to be!

 

[dpuck1998]

I apologize for offending you with the word "you". This word was certainly not directed at dpuck or anyone in particular. I suppose it could be said it was indirectly directed at those whose actions I mentioned. I guess I never imagined using the word "you" and asserting that it was used in general terms - so that no one would be offended, would offend someone. I am a sensitive person and to offend someone especially completely unintended saddens me. I have been the brunt of many careless remarks and hurtful deeds over my life and to be called out as one who evidently has done the hurting and offending saddens me more than you could imagine. Obviously, emotions run high on this topic and I should have known better than to get involved in this conversation regardless of what words I used. I generally steer clear of any conversation here that tends to get emmotions going for this very reason. I will step out now and once again dpuck apologize for offending you as was never, ever my intention to offend you personally or anyone on this board.
Sincerely,

I know you didn't mean me, but reading it was tough since I had to read the word you. I'm a little hypersensitive this week...busy busy

 

[WaltD4Me]

Again...as I asked earlier.....id this really that big a deal?

Apparently to some it is. No matter how many threads I read on the subject though, I will NEVER understand why.

In 2004, my mom used an ECV in the parks, she rented it from Disney as she really only needed it for extended walking. I am having an awful time now convincing her to go to Disney again because now she would need the ECV all the time, so that would mean navigating the buses with one and she says just using one in the parks was bad enough.

When we went, my mom and dad really wanted to ride the train at MK. So we went over to the Toon Town station and they rode around twice. I took the ECV, the park was not crowded at all and I cannot tell you the looks I got. It was unbelievable. I rode over to Fantasyland and got off to go into Tinkerbell's Treasures, people were actually glaring at me. One lady kept giving me death stares the whole time we were in the shop. I did not effect this woman AT ALL, she didn't have to wait for me to get on a bus or anything, she happened to see me get off the ECV and walk into the shop and yet everytime I glanced at this woman she glared at me. I waited for her to say something but she never did ... and she is really lucky. True, I am perfectly healthy, I don't need an ECV, but she didn't know that. I rode it for an hour just to see what it is like and it truly broke my heart to find out what people on ECV's have to endure their entire trip.

 

[crazydisneyman]

Apparently to some it is. No matter how many threads I read on the subject though, I will NEVER understand why.

In 2004, my mom used an ECV in the parks, she rented it from Disney as she really only needed it for extended walking. I am having an awful time now convincing her to go to Disney again because now she would need the ECV all the time, so that would mean navigating the buses with one and she says just using one in the parks was bad enough.

When we went, my mom and dad really wanted to ride the train at MK. So we went over to the Toon Town station and they rode around twice. I took the ECV, the park was not crowded at all and I cannot tell you the looks I got. It was unbelievable. I rode over to Fantasyland and got off to go into Tinkerbell's Treasures, people were actually glaring at me. One lady kept giving me death stares the whole time we were in the shop. I did not effect this woman AT ALL, she didn't have to wait for me to get on a bus or anything, she happened to see me get off the ECV and walk into the shop and yet everytime I glanced at this woman she glared at me. I waited for her to say something but she never did ... and she is really lucky. True, I am perfectly healthy, I don't need an ECV, but she didn't know that. I rode it for an hour just to see what it is like and it truly broke my heart to find out what people on ECV's have to endure their entire trip.

I know this is a little off-topic, but we have had to deal with this reaction from people since I was very young when my Mom was diagnosed with MS. We have learned to live with it, and it has caused my Mom to wear her leg braces all the time at WDW to deflect some of this. We have seen the dagger eyes, and so what I do and have always done is stare right back at them like there is something wrong with them. They usually turn away and stop looking, but if the continue, I go over and say something. That usually does the trick.

I was surprised that people on the bus actually appologized for the rude people in the bus line. That was nice.

Unfortunately you have to have a pretty thick skin even at WDW.

 

[jcb]

I am going to disagree slightly with something implied by Kevin's e-mail and to some degree, fakereadhed's. I do so with some trepidation because Skip (Justin Jett) is tenacious and I would never want to get on his bad side.

I don't disagree with Skip's assertion that WDW goes very far toward eliminating barriers for individuals who have disabilities. Even a company as progressive as WDW is not free from having employees who have bad days or are just plain ignorant.

So while Kevin says the folks complaining are not the folks in the ECV and wheelchairs, I say, why not? I am deeply disturbed that there are Disney bus drivers who, as crazydisneyman said:

some drivers seemed very helpful while others were unhelpful. The unhelpful ones didn't want to assist us in getting on and off the bus. This was very frustrating. It almost like when they saw us there they would sigh and say, "Oh Wow, I have to do this again..."

That attitude is wrong. Not picking up someone because they are in an ECV is wrong. If WDW is truly a progressive company toward individuals with disablities (and I am not saying they are not), they won't tolerate that attitude from their employees. It is, in a legal sense, no different than an employee who refuses to serve, or who grumbles about having to serve, blacks or women.

I'm not at all suggesting anyone make a federal case out of this - but employers need and deserve to know when their employees are out of line. Believe me, complaints about employee misconduct from customers go very far with many employers, especially employers such as WDW. A handful of complaints are not going to get any one driver fired - especially as, I think, these drivers are union employees. Everyone has a bad day. But there are also employees who have no business having front line contact with the public, either, and they deserve to be weeded out. If enough people complain about those bad apples a pattern emerges that no reasonable employer would ignore.

Employers can't do anything about this if they don't know. I know the last thing any Disser wants to do is spend time at WDW complaining about grumpy employees. Still, have the number or e-mail for guest services in your mobile phone and when a driver (or any other CM) is rude, call or e-mail the specifics to customer services. (Of course, you might also do the same for helpful CMs). It doesn't matter to most employers that the complaints are anonymous. All you need do is relay the problem, the bus number, the bus stop and the approximate time.

I'm not suggesting anyone go "carnival ape crazy" (other than Kevin, perhaps, but only because he does it so well and it makes for such a great story on the podcast). But if you don't stand up for yourself or your loved ones, no one else will and nothing will ever change.

 

[crazydisneyman]

I am going to disagree slightly with something implied by Kevin's e-mail and to some degree, fakereadhed's. I do so with some trepidation because Skip (Justin Jett) is tenacious and I would never want to get on his bad side.

I don't disagree with Skip's assertion that WDW goes very far toward eliminating barriers for individuals who have disabilities. Even a company as progressive as WDW is not free from having employees who have bad days or are just plain ignorant.

So while Kevin says the folks complaining are not the folks in the ECV and wheelchairs, I say, why not? I am deeply disturbed that there are Disney bus drivers who, as crazydisneyman said:



That attitude is wrong. Not picking up someone because they are in an ECV is wrong. If WDW is truly a progressive company toward individuals with disablities (and I am not saying they are not), they won't tolerate that attitude from their employees. It is, in a legal sense, no different than an employee who refuses to serve, or who grumbles about having to serve, blacks or women.

I'm not at all suggesting anyone make a federal case out of this - but employers need and deserve to know when their employees are out of line. Believe me, complaints about employee misconduct from customers go very far with many employers, especially employers such as WDW. A handful of complaints are not going to get any one driver fired - especially as, I think, these drivers are union employees. Everyone has a bad day. But there are also employees who have no business having front line contact with the public, either, and they deserve to be weeded out. If enough people complain about those bad apples a pattern emerges that no reasonable employer would ignore.

Employers can't do anything about this if they don't know. I know the last thing any Disser wants to do is spend time at WDW complaining about grumpy employees. Still, have the number or e-mail for guest services in your mobile phone and when a driver (or any other CM) is rude, call or e-mail the specifics to customer services. (Of course, you might also do the same for helpful CMs). It doesn't matter to most employers that the complaints are anonymous. All you need do is relay the problem, the bus number, the bus stop and the approximate time.

I'm not suggesting anyone go "carnival ape crazy" (other than Kevin, perhaps, but only because he does it so well and it makes for such a great story on the podcast). But if you don't stand up for yourself or your loved ones, no one else will and nothing will ever change.

I agree with you. The bus drivers who were difficult, and I must say this was a small fraction of the ones who did help us, made us feel like we had interrupted their day. We would always appologize for our situation and say thank you when we left, sometimes to grumbling. We did this so that the other guests on the bus and the driver would feel better. I know its wrong to do this, but my family has always felt like we had to do this.

I can still see the woman holding the sleeping baby looking at us with daggers at the MK bus stop to go back to OKW on our first day there. That look makes you feel about 2 feet tall.

We were the first stop for the bus at OKW, and as we were getting off the bus, a group of people who were standing on the bus said:
"Get off now, were not waiting for them again. We can walk."

Even with all of this, my family's Grand Gathering was such a wonderful week. OKW is an awesome resort. Disney made so many wonderful accomodations to make us feel like we belonged at WDW. We were even able to take both ECVs on the ferry boat to DTD from OKW! That made my Mom's whole day! She loves to cruise on the water and Disney made that possible for us. I want this to open up some people's eyes, but I also want people to know that Disney does make you feel like ALL people are welcome.

 

[cazzie]

I don't have any problems with the ECV' and having a mother with mobility issues I understand the need for them, I think if there is a problem it's that they need to put more buses on at the busy times.

What I will say is that I would imagine that most of us are tired when we leave the parks and grateful for that seat on the bus should we be lucky enough to get one. My husband suffers with his back and also has had a heart attack and he does get tired, now on our last trip I was suffering with an extemely painful foot (which I had X-rayed when I returned home and found I had broken my toes) so when we did manage to get a seat nothing could have torn my backside of it and I would imagine that to those around we would have looked pretty selfish but what the heck.

I suppose what I am trying to say is that don't assume that people who are sitting should get up and give you their seat especially as you don't know their circumstances. If we really want a seat we will gladly wait for the next bus which we have done a few times.