ECV Ran Over Little Boy Thursday Night at Epcot

[Ceila]

What kaytieeldr said.
It's not that the idea of brakes is offensive - it's that the way it currently works is effective and brakes would not work.
Without power, the wheels do not turn. You don't need a step on the brake pedal to stop it. Once the throttle or joystick is let go of, it stops.
That doesn't happen with a car or motorcycle. That's why they need brakes.

Maybe different ECVs have different stop rates, but my aunt uses one and hers does not stop on a dime. Yes, when the power is cut, the wheels will stop turning, but that does not happen instantly. I know there have been a couple of times when my aunt wished she could have stopped faster than she was able to (usually because someone stepped in front of her).

Maybe a design utilizing the current method along with an emergency brake would prevent the problem of not being able to stop as quickly as sometimes needed.

 

[Ceila]

Theme park. Busy theme park. I really wish people would get the designations straight.

Seriously?? Who cares?

 

[sam_gordon]

An ECV could be designed like my riding lawnmower...

I have a throttle/transmission. You slide it forward to go, the further forward you push, the faster you go. Putting it in the middle is Neutral, and pulling it back is reverse. This is controlled by your hand.

I also have a brake pedal. Pushing the brake pedal applies the brakes, releasing it make it go according to the throttle.

I basically set my speed, then slow/stop by using the brake. There is a latch to "lock" the brake (if you're 'parking').

Just a thought for some inventor. lol

 

[spacemountainmom]

An ECV could be designed like my riding lawnmower...

I have a throttle/transmission. You slide it forward to go, the further forward you push, the faster you go. Putting it in the middle is Neutral, and pulling it back is reverse. This is controlled by your hand.

I also have a brake pedal. Pushing the brake pedal applies the brakes, releasing it make it go according to the throttle.

I basically set my speed, then slow/stop by using the brake. There is a latch to "lock" the brake (if you're 'parking').

Just a thought for some inventor. lol

Excellent idea. I guess I was thinking of some type of hand brake.

As the pp's have mentioned, the ecvs do not stop the second the throttle is released. I would think that a braking system would be a welcome addition.

 

[Conservative Hippie]

An ECV could be designed like my riding lawnmower...

I have a throttle/transmission. You slide it forward to go, the further forward you push, the faster you go. Putting it in the middle is Neutral, and pulling it back is reverse. This is controlled by your hand.

I also have a brake pedal. Pushing the brake pedal applies the brakes, releasing it make it go according to the throttle.

I basically set my speed, then slow/stop by using the brake. There is a latch to "lock" the brake (if you're 'parking').

Just a thought for some inventor. lol

A lot of people using ECVs have little to no control over their legs, which is why they are using an ECV. And why ECVs use hand controls.

 

[Magic Mom]

Seriously?? Who cares?

Plus a theme park IS an amusement park.

 

[SueM in MN]

A lot of people using ECVs have little to no control over their legs, which is why they are using an ECV. And why ECVs use hand controls.

And again, a mower is a gas engine. If you stop using the throttle, the engine is still on. That is not the same as an ECV or power wheelchair. For those, when you let go of the throttle, the motor is no longer getting power. The motor is off.
They don't stop on a dime. Most of the reason is inertia, not that they don't have brakes. They use motor braking, so they do have brakes, just not in the same way as a gas engine does

 

[MamaJessie]

Its not the ECV's, its the rude people and people who don't follow the rules. People complaining that she was going to slow would make her increase the speed..... She banged into my ankle in line for the haunted mansion because a family behind her was complaining about the gap in line ahead of her so she flipped it to bunny and ran right into me. I looked down and my white sock turned red.

I am pretty sure your story just exemplified it being the fault of the ECV driver, someone complaining about a gap doesn't make someone else a bad driver (FWIW I think you are a saint for taking her to the park and helping her out, and obviously don't think she was wrong or bad for getting nervous, I am just trying to point out you are blaming someone complaining about a gap in line for your bloodied ankle)

Hey if you are so dumb as to run right in front of an ECV or try and play chicken with one, sorry but if you get hurt, you probably deserve it, you know Survival of the fittest and all that stuff,

I am trying to play nice, just wanted to point out the irony of claiming survival of the fittest, the "fittest" being the person on the scooter.

I think we should all be more courteous. I accidentally ran into someone with my stroller and felt like a real jerk and apologized profusely. We all make mistakes sometimes.

OP - hope the little guy is fine. My neighbor was ran over my our other neighbor in his scooter and he was two at the time and ended up being fine we were all very surprised. So perhaps all is well

 

[kaytieeldr]

An ECV could be designed like my riding lawnmower...

I have a throttle/transmission. You slide it forward to go, the further forward you push, the faster you go. Putting it in the middle is Neutral, and pulling it back is reverse. This is controlled by your hand.

The typical ECV is similar but simpler. Press on the throttle a little, it goes slow; press harder, it goes faster; press as far as possible, it goes as fast as possible. Not fast, just as fast as possible. The typical ECV throttle range is less than two inches.

Let go, it stops. Not neutral, just stop. Reverse depends on the the individual ECV. Some have you move the throttle in the opposite direction, others require flipping a switch.

Excellent idea. I guess I was thinking of some type of hand brake.

So, you've got one hand on the throttle and one hand on the brake. Where's the steering hand?

As the pp's have mentioned, the ecvs do not stop the second the throttle is released. I would think that a braking system would be a welcome addition.

They pretty much do stop the second the throttle is released. Sue's right, there's inertia - but except on a steep hill (and please don't tailgate an ECV going up a monorail ramp or similar!) and allowing for reaction time, they stop within inches/seconds.

Requiring a second reaction - active braking by any method - would only delay the stopping time.

sam_gordon, I have a question for you: when you move the throttle frok, say, two mph (or whatever your typical mowing speed is) to neutral, what happens? Not slide it down to slower speeds and eventually get to neutral - but just flip it right into neutral while you're mowing along at a steady pace?

 

[sam_gordon]

sam_gordon, I have a question for you: when you move the throttle frok, say, two mph (or whatever your typical mowing speed is) to neutral, what happens? Not slide it down to slower speeds and eventually get to neutral - but just flip it right into neutral while you're mowing along at a steady pace?

I believe it coasts to a stop (like taking your foot off the accelerator on a car). I normally use the brake, so I'm not sure. Inertia keeps it moving (like it does with an ECV if I'm understanding it correctly). I think the suggestion of a brake is simply to help "speed up" inertia.

IIRC, don't ECV's have a "trigger", usually on the right handlebar? Squeeze it and it goes forward, right? Can you put a trigger on the left handlebar for a brake? Squeeze it and the brake is activated. Release it and the brake is released. So, if someone needs to stop quickly, they release the right trigger and squeeze the left. If they need to stop "normally", they simply release the right trigger.

Now, the way I'm imagining this may be way off base, and if so, I apologize.

 

[Conservative Hippie]

The typical ECV is similar but simpler. Press on the throttle a little, it goes slow; press harder, it goes faster; press as far as possible, it goes as fast as possible. Not fast, just as fast as possible. The typical ECV throttle range is less than two inches.

Let go, it stops. Not neutral, just stop. Reverse depends on the the individual ECV. Some have you move the throttle in the opposite direction, others require flipping a switch.

So, you've got one hand on the throttle and one hand on the brake. Where's the steering hand?

They pretty much do stop the second the throttle is released. Sue's right, there's inertia - but except on a steep hill (and please don't tailgate an ECV going up a monorail ramp or similar!) and allowing for reaction time, they stop within inches/seconds.

Requiring a second reaction - active braking by any method - would only delay the stopping time.

sam_gordon, I have a question for you: when you move the throttle frok, say, two mph (or whatever your typical mowing speed is) to neutral, what happens? Not slide it down to slower speeds and eventually get to neutral - but just flip it right into neutral while you're mowing along at a steady pace?

I believe it coasts to a stop (like taking your foot off the accelerator on a car). I normally use the brake, so I'm not sure. Inertia keeps it moving (like it does with an ECV if I'm understanding it correctly). I think the suggestion of a brake is simply to help "speed up" inertia.

IIRC, don't ECV's have a "trigger", usually on the right handlebar? Squeeze it and it goes forward, right? Can you put a trigger on the left handlebar for a brake? Squeeze it and the brake is activated. Release it and the brake is released. So, if someone needs to stop quickly, they release the right trigger and squeeze the left. If they need to stop "normally", they simply release the right trigger.

Now, the way I'm imagining this may be way off base, and if so, I apologize.

People evidently have enough trouble controlling ECVs, why in the world would you want to add one more step?? Now instead of just releasing the throttle, they also have to remember to press the hand brake? Have you ever tried to drive a car with hand controls - a hand gas control and a hand brake control? It's HARD!

 

[mjaclyn]

I haven't read through this entire thread so I'm not sure if my view has already been voiced by someone else. I do think ECVs are dangerous. I've seen people hurt by them, my DH being one of them. We were standing on an already crowded monorail car and DH was squished up against the door. A CM let an ECV back into the car and the man driving ran into DH pretty hard. The man driving was obviously very advanced in age and didn't even notice that he had hit DH. What scares me about them is that some of the people who drive them (like that gentleman) cannot see clearly or just don't know how to drive them properly. I'm sure anyone who has run into or over a person with their ECV has not done so on purpose, but with that in mind, shouldn't the ones who need them go through some kind of instruction before using them? Or perhaps Disney should just allow wheelchairs for guests who are unable to stand or walk for an extended period of time? I think it's wonderful that Disney goes out of their way to try and accommodate guests who otherwise would not be able to come. However, at what point does ECV use become a hazard? I can't imagine using one at peak season... How can they even get down Main Street in those crowds?

 

[kaytieeldr]

IIRC, don't ECV's have a "trigger", usually on the right handlebar? Squeeze it and it goes forward, right? Can you put a trigger on the left handlebar for a brake? Squeeze it and the brake is activated. Release it and the brake is released. So, if someone needs to stop quickly, they release the right trigger and squeeze the left. If they need to stop "normally", they simply release the right trigger.

Now, the way I'm imagining this may be way off base, and if so, I apologize.

Well, the "trigger" you're picturing is the throttle. It's actually located on the main handle stalk, and is already on the right and left of it for... use by right- and left-handed people.

I believe it coasts to a stop (like taking your foot off the accelerator on a car). I normally use the brake, so I'm not sure. I believe it coasts to a stop (like taking your foot off the accelerator on a car). I normally use the brake, so I'm not sure. Inertia keeps it moving (like it does with an ECV if I'm understanding it correctly). I think the suggestion of a brake is simply to help "speed up" inertia.

The inertia with an ECV is minimal - again, despite what some other posters say, especially the one who claimed it takes the length of the scooter to stop.
Anyway, requiring two steps to stop an ECV would slow down, not speed up, both the operator's reaction time and the distance/time for the ECV to come to a stop.

 

[abdmom]

The inertia with an ECV is minimal - again, despite what some other posters say, especially the one who claimed it takes the length of the scooter to stop.
Anyway, requiring two steps to stop an ECV would slow down, not speed up, both the operator's reaction time and the distance/time for the ECV to come to a stop.

The inertia of an ECV is NOT minimal. A baby in a stroller is minimal. In addition, it's the momentum of the vehicle that causes damage. Momentum = mass x velocity. The faster the ECV is going, the more damage it can cause.


The addition of a hand brake would not increase the time it takes for the vehicle to stop, any more than stepping on the brake of a car makes it longer for the vehicle to stop.

 

[sam_gordon]

People evidently have enough trouble controlling ECVs, why in the world would you want to add one more step?? Now instead of just releasing the throttle, they also have to remember to press the hand brake? Have you ever tried to drive a car with hand controls - a hand gas control and a hand brake control? It's HARD!

Anyway, requiring two steps to stop an ECV would slow down, not speed up, both the operator's reaction time and the distance/time for the ECV to come to a stop.

I think you're both missing what I'm suggesting... leave the throttle control EXACTLY the way it is right now. Take your hand off the throttle and the ECV stops (although not "on a dime"). Simply add a brake control that can be used in ADDITION to the current system.

This would be no different than any other mode of transportation (scale is the only difference)... in a car if you take your foot off the gas, the car will coast to a stop (granted over a great distance, but it will still stop). If you stop pedaling on a bike, you will eventually stop. Applying brakes simply shortens the distance it takes to stop. It is not required.

 

[kaytieeldr]

The inertia of an ECV is NOT minimal. A baby in a stroller is minimal. In addition, it's the momentum of the vehicle that causes damage. Momentum = mass x velocity. The faster the ECV is going, the more damage it can cause.


The addition of a hand brake would not increase the time it takes for the vehicle to stop, any more than stepping on the brake of a car makes it longer for the vehicle to stop.

I'm not sure I understand the the second paragraph.
A. Release the throttle - the ECV stops
B. Release the throttle then engage the handbrake - the ECV stops
Requiring the operator to perform two steps to stop the ecv takes longer than one step. It has to. Plus, as I indicated above, while the operator is releasing the throttle with one hand and engaging the brake with the other... which hand are they using to steer?

As for inertia - when you release the throttle, the ecv stops. Depending how fast it was moving, and it's entirely possible to put very little pressure on the throttle and move at snail pace (smart in a crowd), it absolutely could stop instantly. Moving at typical speed, it does take a few inches.

Compare that to a 'determined' stroller pusher (because you're right, it's not the stroller but the operator ). Now, an ECV that hits someone at typical speed can - but as we've seen in one recent post, doesn't necessarily - do damage. In fact, if one merely bumps into someone (see strollers), the ECV actually has bumpers. Less likely to do damage than the typical stroller with exposed metal.

 

[SueM in MN]

The part people are not understanding is that ECVs and power wheelchairs DO have brakes. They are applied automatically when the driver lets go of the control and the driver doesn't do anything to apply them.
Since they are not conventional brakes that the driver has to apply, people think they don't have any brakes.

The 'slow stopping' some people say they have seen is probably someone who is still pushing the control slightly. If someone does that, it will slow and then if they let go, it will stop, making it look like the ECV took a long time to stop.
Letting go of the control entirely will make it stop abruptly.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Sue, we should set up a Meet at Epcot on a slow day (with Disney's cooperation) to give everyone on this thread ECV lessons

 

[SueM in MN]

Sue, we should set up a Meet at Epcot on a slow day (with Disney's cooperation) to give everyone on this thread ECV lessons

LOL

OK, here's something that explains better - a whole page of ECV brake replacement parts.
http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/mobility-scooter-brakes.html

And, the explanation of how the brakes work:
"A typical mobility scooter uses the regenerative braking system, sometimes referred to as an electro-mechanical dynamic scooter brake. When the operator releases the throttle, the mobility scooter brake automatically slows the scooter to a stop. In other words; the brake is "on" by default until the throttle is again engaged. This is what keeps an unattended scooter from rolling away downhill.

Scooter brakes can also be disengaged by means of a manual clutch or lever which allows a freewheel, or "push-me" mode, even if the batteries are dead or removed from the scooter."

The regenerative brakes are one type, most also have disc brakes. It is possible that a particular ECV may need its brakes services or replaced, but that is a maintenance issue, not a user issue.

 

[Orangeandwild]

I haven't read through this entire thread so I'm not sure if my view has already been voiced by someone else. I do think ECVs are dangerous. I've seen people hurt by them, my DH being one of them. We were standing on an already crowded monorail car and DH was squished up against the door. A CM let an ECV back into the car and the man driving ran into DH pretty hard. The man driving was obviously very advanced in age and didn't even notice that he had hit DH. What scares me about them is that some of the people who drive them (like that gentleman) cannot see clearly or just don't know how to drive them properly. I'm sure anyone who has run into or over a person with their ECV has not done so on purpose, but with that in mind, shouldn't the ones who need them go through some kind of instruction before using them? Or perhaps Disney should just allow wheelchairs for guests who are unable to stand or walk for an extended period of time? I think it's wonderful that Disney goes out of their way to try and accommodate guests who otherwise would not be able to come. However, at what point does ECV use become a hazard? I can't imagine using one at peak season... How can they even get down Main Street in those crowds?

I own and bring my own ECV to the parks and I do agree that people should not be driving them who have sight trouble or who do not have the motor movements to control one so they do not injure anyone. There are some TERRIBLE ECV drivers at WDW as they have never been on one before and have no clue what they are doing and they give us all a bad name. Many have actually run into me on my scooter as we line up for attractions.

Some of us use them all the time and know what we are doing on them, to ban them is to ban us from WDW. Not everyone has someone in their party capable of pushing them around a park all day, my DH rides a scooter in the parks now too and certainly cannot push me all day. Renting a power wheel chair requires a certain skill even harder than driving a scooter, so thus people would be getting hit by power wheelchairs even more frequently.

Sorry your DH was hit by a scooter on the Monorail but in Disability Cars there is a sign that all riders must make room for wheelchairs and scooters. It is best to avoid those cars knowing that people will be driving on and off the ramps and you might get bumped or toes run over. We have nowhere else to go but those cars, so better for you to jump on and ride in another car and avoid any problems with them.