ECV Ran Over Little Boy Thursday Night at Epcot

[mhsjax]

American Heritage Dictionary:
Clip - to hit with a sharp blow

That definition more than implies injury.

I still stand by my original point that no matter what assumptions are made regarding motive or degree of injury, human decency compels us to be sorry if we cause harm to another. I am sad that you and the other poster think that this is OK. I can only hope that I am never in the same location where you all are deciding if my behavior warrants being hurt.

Hey if you are so dumb as to run right in front of an ECV or try and play chicken with one, sorry but if you get hurt, you probably deserve it, you know Survival of the fittest and all that stuff, which insures that the not so smart people feel the results of acting stupidly. Now if it is really an accident then yep I do feel sorry, but why do you seem to think that it is ok to run in front of or play chicken with someone on one of these scooters?

As far as "clipping", they don't have breaks, so that word best describes what would happen, it is either go or stop and no in between, at least on the ones that DH had to use on 2 occasions, when yep, idiots out there loves to run right in front of him, and in fact he almost fell of trying to avoid hitting someone. They weren't sorry, why should he have been for almost hitting them, when frankly, they deserved it.

 

[KiKi Mouse]

My DD12 had her foot run over last year. A woman was backing up and ran right over my daughter's foot and part of her leg and didn't even notice.

Too many people are renting these things that have never been on one. Just stop and watch some of these people next time you are in the world. Unbelievable.

 

[powellrj]

I usually stay out of ECV fights because its a no-win situation. But I feel so bad today I am just going to jump in.

I use an ECV on occasion. Its not an easy or pleasant experience. People ignore you and judge you. If you want to feel invisible, go out in a wheelchair or ECV. I went to the grocery store on Sunday with DD. We are a great team together because I will drive the ECV and she will fill the cart. We were at the deli, the guy who waited on me helped me with one item and walked away. I still wanted more and just sat and waited until someone noticed me. The other counter girl looked at me and looked at the guy and said I thought he was helping you, I told her I thought he was too, but he just walked away. I would think it was an accident, but when you are in a wheelchair or an ECV, it happens too often to be an accident.

People walk in front of you without a second thought. I have had kids actually jump over me while I was driving. I don't know if its some kind of underground U-tube thing, lets jump over people in ECVs and record it or what, but its happened more than once.

When you at WDW you get to enjoy nothing around you because all of your concentration is on NOT hitting someone who decides to stop right in front of you or walk right into you. What is amazing is just sitting and watching people. There are places I don't even attempt to go now and I spend lots of time just sitting and people watching.

If you ever get a chance, sit and watch a person in a wheelchair or an ECV and see how people treat and react to them. Its eye opening. I have seen people just sitting off to the side, knocked over by people not paying attention. I have seen people fall into a persons lap by not paying attention. They seem to think a person in a wheelchair is a non-person and will fall on them and not even take the time to say sorry.

I am off to a new doctor today so maybe my days in wheelchair and ECVs will soon be over. I hope so because what I wouldn't give to be able to run, skip or even sit on the ground again.

 

[mhsjax]

I usually stay out of ECV fights because its a no-win situation. But I feel so bad today I am just going to jump in.

I use an ECV on occasion. Its not an easy or pleasant experience. People ignore you and judge you. If you want to feel invisible, go out in a wheelchair or ECV. I went to the grocery store on Sunday with DD. We are a great team together because I will drive the ECV and she will fill the cart. We were at the deli, the guy who waited on me helped me with one item and walked away. I still wanted more and just sat and waited until someone noticed me. The other counter girl looked at me and looked at the guy and said I thought he was helping you, I told her I thought he was too, but he just walked away. I would think it was an accident, but when you are in a wheelchair or an ECV, it happens too often to be an accident.

People walk in front of you without a second thought. I have had kids actually jump over me while I was driving. I don't know if its some kind of underground U-tube thing, lets jump over people in ECVs and record it or what, but its happened more than once.

When you at WDW you get to enjoy nothing around you because all of your concentration is on NOT hitting someone who decides to stop right in front of you or walk right into you. What is amazing is just sitting and watching people. There are places I don't even attempt to go now and I spend lots of time just sitting and people watching.

If you ever get a chance, sit and watch a person in a wheelchair or an ECV and see how people treat and react to them. Its eye opening. I have seen people just sitting off to the side, knocked over by people not paying attention. I have seen people fall into a persons lap by not paying attention. They seem to think a person in a wheelchair is a non-person and will fall on them and not even take the time to say sorry.

I am off to a new doctor today so maybe my days in wheelchair and ECVs will soon be over. I hope so because what I wouldn't give to be able to run, skip or even sit on the ground again.

I agree with you 100%. I will admit I didn't feel that way until DH had to have major knee surg and we had a planned trip. He had to rent one of these things, it was horrible. YOu really can't enjoy things as much and anyone that says people rent them because they are too lazy to walk, has never had to use one, or be with someone using one.

I understand both sides, some people are not so great with driving, but tons of people are horrible about walking right in front of them.

 

[Conservative Hippie]

People are aging, people are getting more autoimmune disorders, etc. Who knows how many people were sitting at home back then, just waiting for something like a scooter to be invented...

They were invented. They were expensive and no one rented them out. I remember as early as 1988 my dad had a scooter called an Amigo.

 

[Talking Hands]

Whatever the situation appears to you, me or anyone else, I would always feel bad about hurting someone else. The term clipping sounds like an attempt to downplay the damage you have no regret in inflicting. You have still been part of an incident hurting someone else. It is troubling that you think that you can make calls on when it is OK to hurt someone else. That attitude is a huge part of the problem. An ECV becomes a weapon in the hands of someone who thinks that they are all knowing enough to make a call of when it is OK to hurt another person.

Situation #1 teen hurt himself due to risky behavior.
Situation #2 no one was hurt
Situation #3 I was hurt.

In no case was I the one who caused the hurt. You just don't seem to get that it is not always the fault of the ECV/PWC user. I never said it was ok to cause hurt to another person but I was not the cause of the teen's injury, he was. I hope I am never around you in the parks with your blame it on the disabled person attitude. I guess you would blame a person with a cane if another person tripped over that and fell because they hit the cane. BTW I use a powered wheelchair not an ECV and Have used it for more than 10 years and have never run over a CM foot or clipped one. I have been fallen on, hit by backpacks and poked by cigarettes carried by guests. I have literally had people climb over my wheelchair and me by people trying to exit a crowded area where I could not move the wheelchair for fear of running over others feet. You can judge all you want but until you have wheeled a mile in my chair, you are only making assumptions so your judgement are really invalid.

 

[asta]

Situation #1 teen hurt himself due to risky behavior.
Situation #2 no one was hurt
Situation #3 I was hurt.

In no case was I the one who caused the hurt. You just don't seem to get that it is not always the fault of the ECV/PWC user. I never said it was ok to cause hurt to another person but I was not the cause of the teen's injury, he was. I hope I am never around you in the parks with your blame it on the disabled person attitude. I guess you would blame a person with a cane if another person tripped over that and fell because they hit the cane. BTW I use a powered wheelchair not an ECV and Have used it for more than 10 years and have never run over a CM foot or clipped one. I have been fallen on, hit by backpacks and poked by cigarettes carried by guests. I have literally had people climb over my wheelchair and me by people trying to exit a crowded
area where I could not move the wheelchair for fear of running over others feet. You can judge all you want but until you have wheeled a mile in my chair, you are only making assumptions so your judgement are really invalid.

Being handicapped is not an excuse to be unkind to others. You are the one who said that you "frankly don't care" when you sometimes run into (or as you call it "clipping") someone. You, of course, get to be the judge of when someone deserves to be hit by your vehicle. I think that is an appalling attitude.

You can't play the able bodied person is unfair to the handicapped card with me. As I mentioned before, I am mobility challenged and have had to rely on wheelchairs. I would never think it is OK for my wheelchair to run into someone, no matter what the circumstance. You may think that you know what the other persons motivation is for taking their steps but you can never know for sure. It is still just your opinion. How can you not care about hitting someone?

As far as not wanting to be around me in the parks, at least you would not have to fear that I would "clip" you with my wheelchair after make a
judgement call about your motivation for interfering with where I wanted to move.

 

[Conservative Hippie]

Oh good grief. Talking Hands never said it was OK to hurt someone, she basically said she wasn't always sorry it happened. I have hit people with my double stroller before, and although I would always apologize, I'm not always sorry - because it is not always my fault! You step out in front of me and get your ankles hit, no, I'm not sorry. I'm not giddy about it, but I'm not sorry. Because. It. Wasn't. My. Fault. That is what Talking Hands is saying. She's not out there playing hit the pedestrian, she is just refusing to take the blame and have to feel remorse for something she didn't do. No, it's not OK for a wheelchair, ECV, or stroller to run into someone, but it's also not ok for a pedestrian to cause a wheelchair, ECV, or stroller to run into them.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Being handicapped is not an excuse to be unkind to others. You are the one who said that you "frankly don't care" when you sometimes run into (or as you call it "clipping") someone. You, of course, get to be the judge of when someone deserves to be hit by your vehicle. I think that is an appalling attitude.

You can't play the able bodied person is unfair to the handicapped card with me. As I mentioned before, I am mobility challenged and have had to rely on wheelchairs. I would never think it is OK for my wheelchair to run into someone, no matter what the circumstance. You may think that you know what the other persons motivation is for taking their steps but you can never know for sure. It is still just your opinion. How can you not care about hitting someone?

As far as not wanting to be around me in the parks, at least you would not have to fear that I would "clip" you with my wheelchair after make a
judgement call about your motivation for interfering with where I wanted to move.

In all circumstances--she didn't run into anybody. But you keep missing that. Why?

Are you the same way in your car that you either ride or drive. Your car could not be moving, but you would actually accept fault if a collision occurs? Because the way you are commenting to Talking Hands, that is essentially what you are implying.

Being in a wheelchair does not make you the at fault party just because you are riding in one. I am sure she would care if SHE were the one to hit someone--but in all cases, THEY were the ones to run into her.

BTW--she also never said she was unkind....she just expressed what her thoughts were. You are reading too literally that part and too figuratively the other parts.

What you are doing is alway blaming the rider of the ECV and that is just as wrong.

 

[asta]

In all circumstances--she didn't run into anybody. But you keep missing that. Why?

Are you the same way in your car that you either ride or drive. Your car could not be moving, but you would actually accept fault if a collision occurs? Because the way you are commenting to Talking Hands, that is essentially what you are implying.

Being in a wheelchair does not make you the at fault party just because you are riding in one. I am sure she would care if SHE were the one to hit someone--but in all cases, THEY were the ones to run into her.

BTW--she also never said she was unkind....she just expressed what her thoughts were. You are reading too literally that part and too figuratively the other parts.

What you are doing is alway blaming the rider of the ECV and that is just as wrong.

I am not missing anything from what this poster originally said. Quoting from her post:

"Do I feel bad if I clip a person accidently. Frankly not always. Really depends on the situation and if the person has cut me on purpose."

How can you read her original post and miss that she is stating that she does run into people. Nothing about that statement says that she is sitting still and that the person clipped walked into her. Someone walking into your ECV is not what I would call clipping them. The story is now changing to everyone is walking into her ECV. That is not what was originally posted. She apparently thinks that if she decides that if the pedestrian does not have a good enough reason to avoid being clipped by her ECV then she doesn't "feel bad" about clipping them. And she is making this call about the pedestrians motivation while moving through a busy amusement park.

Not feeling bad about being involved in an incident that hurts someone is unkind. And quite frankly, I would feel bad no matter who is at fault. And since you asked about an accident while I would be driving a car, I would feel badly, even devastated if I were to hit a pedestrian who ran into the path of my car. It would not matter to me if they were at fault or not. I definitely would not be sitting there saying that someone's mom told them to run into the road so I don't feel bad about hitting them. You don't have to accept blame or guilt in order to feel bad about being involved in something that hurts another human. As the operator of my car I think it is my job to avoid contact with anyone or anything else at all costs.

Being in a wheelchair does not automatically make you at fault if someone is hurt but the fact that you are operating a vehicle that can cause harm to pedestrians does place more responsibility on the operator of that vehicle.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I am not missing anything from what this poster originally said. Quoting from her post:

"Do I feel bad if I clip a person accidently. Frankly not always. Really depends on the situation and if the person has cut me on purpose."

How can you read her original post and miss that she is stating that she does run into people.

I did read her post and she doesn't say she runs into people. Clipping is also an evasive maneuver when one is trying to avoid a collision or contact but makes contact anyway. That is how I read clipped. But I wasn't trying to shame her--I understood what she wrote in her actual post and used the whole context to come to that conclusion. You are taking one sentence out of context and using a dictionary to proof she is stating otherwise.

If you always read things like that--sure--people will come across as bad when you remove sound bites as proof of their evil.

 

[kaytieeldr]

You are the one who said that you "frankly don't care" when you sometimes run into (or as you call it "clipping") someone. You, of course, get to be the judge of when someone deserves to be hit by your vehicle.

What she said was

Do I feel bad if I clip a person accidently. Frankly not always. Really depends on the situation and if the person has cut me on purpose.

That she doesn't feel bad that somebody's own (stupid) actions cause them to be hit by her PWC isn't the same as not feeling bad that something she did caused that.

 

[kaytieeldr]

"Do I feel bad if I clip a person accidently. Frankly not always. Really depends on the situation and if the person has cut me on purpose."

How can you read her original post and miss that she is stating that she does run into people. Nothing about that statement says that she is sitting still and that the person clipped walked into her. Someone walking into your ECV is not what I would call clipping them.

You're right. I would call it THEM clipping YOU (and then probably getting outraged at you for being where they wanted to walk ).

And she is making this call about the pedestrians motivation while moving through a busy amusement park.

Theme park. Busy theme park. I really wish people would get the designations straight.

 

[Talking Hands]

Thank you to all of you who have defended me. I appreciate your understanding of the situations and the fact that you actually read the entire post and kept things in context.

 

[whatsup]

This happens a lot at all the parks. I wish Disney would not allow them. Sounds cruel however most people using them do not know how to manuever them in crowed situations. They should only allow manuel wheelchairs either you wheel it yourself or someone else. I have seen 2 kids hit and 1 woman hit a trash can 5 times trying to turn around on a crowded sidewalk on Mainstreet!!

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

This happens a lot at all the parks. I wish Disney would not allow them. Sounds cruel however most people using them do not know how to manuever them in crowed situations. They should only allow manuel wheelchairs either you wheel it yourself or someone else. I have seen 2 kids hit and 1 woman hit a trash can 5 times trying to turn around on a crowded sidewalk on Mainstreet!!

They should remove walkers. I have seen many of them walk right into scooters.



There will always be incidents as long as there are people allowed to attend Disney. So since I have seen people vomit, throw tantrums, trip, fall, stumble, collapse (well--I saw them after the collapse), slip, get angry, get sad, miss their ADR, lose their fast pass, get scared on a ride, climb over someone in their ECV, take something that wasn't theirs...

We should just ban people from Disney. It may sound cruel, however people who go seem to always have something go wrong and that just isn't safe physically or mentally. They should only allow the cast members. For they are fully trained on how to properly maneuver around the park without shedding a tear or tripping over something. And those that fail that, should be fired.

We can't count the stories where you blame the driver if we can't count the stories where the pedestrian is 100% the blame.

 

[WDWBlue]

This happens a lot at all the parks. I wish Disney would not allow them. Sounds cruel however most people using them do not know how to manuever them in crowed situations. They should only allow manuel wheelchairs either you wheel it yourself or someone else. I have seen 2 kids hit and 1 woman hit a trash can 5 times trying to turn around on a crowded sidewalk on Mainstreet!!

This is common. I saw a very obese couple, in their mid-twenties, trying to park their ECV's. They rammed other scooters in front, then rammed the scooters in back the same way. This went on 3-4 times before they were happy with their effort and dismounted with a giggle and a smile...

 

[seashoreCM]

When an accident happens then have an accident investigation.

For the ECV rider who tries to zip away without an apology, having someone run after her and take the key is a good starting point.

Then Disney security might not be able to put the skin back on the kid's knee or mend the broken leg within 60 seconds but a CM can certainly say, "when you wish upon a star, its' my every command" (the official term is guest recovery). And follow through with the corporation behind him.

What Disney security does with the ECV key just before wrapping up the investigation need not be made known to the kid or his mom. In egregious cases Disney might eject the miscreant(s) from the property, attempting to retain the unused portions of resort packages, tickets, etc. to cover costs with.

I. It would also be a good idea to cap the total amount of ECVs that can be in use in a park at the same time. Total attendance is capped at times so restricting the number of ECVs would just be an extension of that policy. All users of ECVs should also have to register when entering the parks. This information would be critical in case of an accident so that responsibility could be assessed..

When the ECV cap is reached, the turnstiles must be closed to everyone (stage 4 capacity closure).

 

[crashbb]

When an accident happens then have an accident investigation.

For the ECV rider who tries to zip away without an apology, having someone run after her and take the key is a good starting point.

Then Disney security might not be able to put the skin back on the kid's knee or mend the broken leg within 60 seconds but a CM can certainly say, "when you wish upon a star, its' my every command" (the official term is guest recovery). And follow through with the corporation behind him.

What Disney security does with the ECV key just before wrapping up the investigation need not be made known to the kid or his mom. In egregious cases Disney might eject the miscreant(s) from the property, attempting to retain the unused portions of resort packages, tickets, etc. to cover costs with.

Really? You are really suggesting that someone chase after a heavy vehicle (clearly driven by someone who doesn't care if they hurt another person - or else this situation wouldn't arise in the first place) and climb onto it? That's the only way that one would be able to "take the key".

You really think that this is a good suggestion?

 

[ead79]

This is common. I saw a very obese couple, in their mid-twenties, trying to park their ECV's. They rammed other scooters in front, then rammed the scooters in back the same way. This went on 3-4 times before they were happy with their effort and dismounted with a giggle and a smile...

And the weight of the couple has what exactly to do with the fact that they couldn't properly drive their scooters?