Early 2009 Attendance Numbers - DL Up 15%, MK Down

[HydroGuy]

Darkbeer posted an "In the Parks" Update yesterday here:

http://micechat.com/forums/blogs/in...valentines-options-super-pass-captain-eo.html

There have been rumors through Al Lutz that DL was up in 2009 and MK was down, and these were the first real numbers. Here is an excerpt from Darkbeer.

Disney corporate earning report has been released. Among the interesting details, Disneyland's attendance was up 15% compared to a loss of 1% at Disney World. There is quite a conversation gong on about the financials and what they mean, right here on MiceChat:
http://micechat.com/forums/disneylan...-down-1-a.html

Combine that with 2008 totals here 2008 [FONT=DOZSC V+ Frutiger,DOZSC V+ Frutiger][FONT=DOZSC V+ Frutiger,DOZSC V+ Frutiger]Attraction Attendance Report[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=DOZSC V+ Frutiger,DOZSC V+ Frutiger][FONT=DOZSC V+ Frutiger,DOZSC V+ Frutiger]2008 MK - 17.1 million[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=DOZSC V+ Frutiger,DOZSC V+ Frutiger][FONT=DOZSC V+ Frutiger,DOZSC V+ Frutiger]2008 DL - 14.7 million[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=DOZSC V+ Frutiger,DOZSC V+ Frutiger][FONT=DOZSC V+ Frutiger,DOZSC V+ Frutiger]would result in 2009 totals of[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=DOZSC V+ Frutiger,DOZSC V+ Frutiger][FONT=DOZSC V+ Frutiger,DOZSC V+ Frutiger]2009 MK - 16.9 million (estimated)[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=DOZSC V+ Frutiger,DOZSC V+ Frutiger][FONT=DOZSC V+ Frutiger,DOZSC V+ Frutiger][FONT=DOZSC V+ Frutiger,DOZSC V+ Frutiger][FONT=DOZSC V+ Frutiger,DOZSC V+ Frutiger]2009 DL - 16.9 million (estimated)[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=DOZSC V+ Frutiger,DOZSC V+ Frutiger][FONT=DOZSC V+ Frutiger,DOZSC V+ Frutiger][FONT=DOZSC V+ Frutiger,DOZSC V+ Frutiger][FONT=DOZSC V+ Frutiger,DOZSC V+ Frutiger]DL has caught up with MK and may have edged them out by a few ten thousands. Wow. [/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=DOZSC V+ Frutiger,DOZSC V+ Frutiger][FONT=DOZSC V+ Frutiger,DOZSC V+ Frutiger][FONT=DOZSC V+ Frutiger,DOZSC V+ Frutiger]For previous year attendance figures check this link: http://www.scottware.com.au/theme/feature/atend_disparks.htm[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

 

[QueenDoOver]

Very interesting. I suppose if we want them to continue investing money in DLR then those sort of numbers are important, but I sort of wish everyone would just go to Florida.

 

[blackjackdelta]

Very interesting. I suppose if we want them to continue investing money in DLR then those sort of numbers are important, but I sort of wish everyone would just go to Florida.

I am with you. But, it is not realistic.

Jack

 

[HydroGuy]

The more money that comes into DLR the more they will expand it. Think on the positive side!

 

[blackjackdelta]

The more money that comes into DLR the more they will expand it. Think on the positive side!

Being a Disney shareholder I want Disney to suceed and make $$$ hand over fist, but there currently is only so many sq.ft. and I do not enjoy sharing my square.

Have a great Valentines weekend Trey.

Jack

 

[CrazyDuck]

That's pretty impressive considering how expansive WDW is. I'd be interested if the merchandising and food sales are also up 17%... I wonder if the layaway Ap holders are spending $ in the parks...

 

[DLR29]

That's pretty impressive considering how expansive WDW is. I'd be interested if the merchandising and food sales are also up 17%... I wonder if the layaway Ap holders are spending $ in the parks...

It's not...

Not to be a Debbie-downer because I think it's fantastic that DLR's attendance numbers are up, but (from the article: http://thedailydisney.com/blog/2010/02/disney-earnings-story/)

Combined guest spending between Disney World and Disneyland fell 4 percent for the quarter, reflecting the continued discounts Disney has been offering to keep its theme-park turnstiles clicking.

There are many reasons for this but one is probably due to those So Cal AP holders who could buy an AP this year by upgrading their special Birthday pass for super cheap. Tourists bring the $ (especially hotel rooms and souvenirs), not AP holders.

 

[Sherry E]

Aha! Thanks for posting that info, Trey! Even though anyone who was at DLR in the Fall or during the holiday season could tell that the attendance numbers had clearly gone up - it was so obvious compared to the previous years - I know there were a few nay-sayers who doubted that attendance had gone up in 2009 at all, so it is nice to see these figures to confirm what we already witnessed first-hand - that it was crazy busy!!!! I guess the only thing that surprises me from that report is how the WDW attendance has dropped while DLR is on the rise.

 

[HydroGuy]

Combined guest spending between Disney World and Disneyland fell 4 percent for the quarter, reflecting the continued discounts Disney has been offering to keep its theme-park turnstiles clicking.

There are many reasons for this but one is probably due to those So Cal AP holders who could buy an AP this year by upgrading their special Birthday pass for super cheap. Tourists bring the $ (especially hotel rooms and souvenirs), not AP holders.

I read this differently. It sounded like they were lumping WDW and DLR guest spending together and not saying they both fell 4% but the aggregate fell 4%. I guess we will know more as data comes out.

 

[Disney Dreams]

...Tourists bring the $ (especially hotel rooms and souvenirs), not AP holders.

Oh I SOOO disagree with this.

Tourists like those on this board who:
- Stay at HoJo's, or one of many many other motels on Harbor and tell fellow DIS'ers that it's not worth the money to stay on-site at DL.

- Have groceries delivered to their motel so they can eat breakfast at the motel, pack lunches, bring snacks, and bring their own drinks

- Buy Disney-related hats, shirts, autograph books prior to tri at non-Disney locations to save money

AP holders spend all sorts of money on-site, especially locals.

- Dreams

 

[DLtorgo]

WDW isn't as close to major cities when people are trying to economize with a "staycation". I hope it translates into more rides and walkways at DLR.

 

[HydroGuy]

Oh I SOOO disagree with this.

Tourists like those on this board who:
- Stay at HoJo's, or one of many many other motels on Harbor and tell fellow DIS'ers that it's not worth the money to stay on-site at DL.

- Have groceries delivered to their motel so they can eat breakfast at the motel, pack lunches, bring snacks, and bring their own drinks

- Buy Disney-related hats, shirts, autograph books prior to tri at non-Disney locations to save money

AP holders spend all sorts of money on-site, especially locals.

- Dreams

I do not agree or disagree - I don't know - but when we go to WDW we use grocery services too. But we stay onsite. I am sure there are tons of people at WDW who stay off-site and eat off-site and/or use grocery services. I am not sure if it is AP-related or not at WDW. But it does affect WDW's revenue.

Now at DLR things are different. Yes folks stay off-site and eat off-site. If anything that should bring price pressure on Disney hotels and dining. But DLR hotels are more expensive than the WDW hotels and offer less deals in my experience. There are just less of them and supply meets demand I guess.

For us to get a suite at the GCH to sleep 6 people is like $700 a night. At BWPPI it is $150. At WDW we can find sleeping arrangements for 6 for $250-300. And less if we stayed at All-Stars.

In any case your point about how much AP vs. non-AP's spend is something I am sure the DLR bean counters look at closely. And know the exact answer. I suspect on the whole that AP holders spend less per day than non-APs, but maybe more per year as they go more often.

 

[Raindown]

I think being close to DLR helps. Any money I would have to spend on travel ends up being food and ice cream.

 

[CrazyDuck]

Oh I SOOO disagree with this.

Tourists like those on this board who:
- Stay at HoJo's, or one of many many other motels on Harbor and tell fellow DIS'ers that it's not worth the money to stay on-site at DL.

- Have groceries delivered to their motel so they can eat breakfast at the motel, pack lunches, bring snacks, and bring their own drinks

- Buy Disney-related hats, shirts, autograph books prior to tri at non-Disney locations to save money

AP holders spend all sorts of money on-site, especially locals.

- Dreams

First of all, the majority of tourists don't read these boards. If anything, the locals would be more inclined to pack their own lunches, bring snacks, and bring their own drinks. Everyone buys Disney-related gear at non-Disney locations, locals and tourists! Local AP holders do not spend more money on-site because they do not have to pay for lodging, and they do not have to pay for food.

Lets take my latest trip for example... for 7 of us for 6 nights my credit card balance is up $9,500. Now Subtract $2000 for airfare and $400 for transportation to and from the airport as those are the expenses that are not being collected by Disney. Everything else was paid directly to the mouse. Over $7,100 for 2 rooms at GCH, Meals and merchandise. Now say we were locals and Deluxe AP holders ($300). So that $2,100 for 7 AP's. Is a family of 7 going to spend $5,000 in the course of a year for parking, food, and souvenirs? Not likely... Especially for those AP holders who had to buy their AP's via a payment plan!

 

[Disney Dreams]

We both know how many people stay off-site, bring their own food, and don't pay for parking. But...

...Is a family of 7 going to spend $5,000 in the course of a year for parking, food, and souvenirs?...

$13/person/week? Easily.

Especially for those AP holders who had to buy their AP's via a payment plan!

Not sure what that has to do with the discussion. If I can pay for something monthly, keep the remaining money in my account earning interest, with no penalties or additional fee, why wouldn't I? Smart money management if you ask me.

...If anything, the locals would be more inclined to pack their own lunches, bring snacks, and bring their own drinks...and they do not have to pay for food.

I have never packed a lunch for Disneyland, I bring 1 bottle of water, and probably buy dinner about 1/3 - 1/2 of the time I visit the Park. I think you may be a bit off on how much money "locals" spend at Disneyland.

- Dreams

 

[CrazyDuck]

$13/person/month? Easily.

Nice Math!

I have never packed a lunch for Disneyland, I bring 1 bottle of water, and probably buy dinner about 1/3 - 1/2 of the time I visit the Park. I think you may be a bit off on how much money "locals" spend at Disneyland.

As a local you have the ability to bring food and drinks more so than the average tourist! As a tourist we buy 100% of breakfast, lunch, and dinners there, as well as the $3 bottles of water that you get to bring into the parks...

 

[Disney Dreams]

Nice Math!

Wow! Nice attitude towards a mis-type. I meant per week and have corrected it accordingly. Forgive me for mis"speaking."

As a local you have the ability to bring food and drinks more so than the average tourist! As a tourist we buy 100% of breakfast, lunch, and dinners there, as well as the $3 bottles of water that you get to bring into the parks...

But my EXACT point (which for some reason you are fighting against) is that most tourists DON'T buy "100% of breakfast, lunch, and dinners" in the Park.

And every single person who goes to the Park could refill a water bottle or a camelback over and over and over (like we did at WDW for 10 days).

My very simple point was (and still is) that LOTS of money that goes towards many people's Disney vacations does not go to Disney.

- Dreams

 

[nunzia]

Very interesting. I suppose if we want them to continue investing money in DLR then those sort of numbers are important, but I sort of wish everyone would just go to Florida.

 

[DLR29]

Wow! Nice attitude towards a mis-type. I meant per week and have corrected it accordingly. Forgive me for mis"speaking."



But my EXACT point (which for some reason you are fighting against) is that most tourists DON'T buy "100% of breakfast, lunch, and dinners" in the Park.

And every single person who goes to the Park could refill a water bottle or a camelback over and over and over (like we did at WDW for 10 days).

My very simple point was (and still is) that LOTS of money that goes towards many people's Disney vacations does not go to Disney.

- Dreams

DISCLAIMER: Almost everything in this thread is speculation and guessing because nobody actually knows the percentages on tourist vs. local spending, so here are my thoughts.

I would argue that you might be a bit off on how much money "tourists" spend at Disneyland. While a lot of tourists don't buy all three meals at the parks, I'm sure a sizeable portion do (or at the hotels, Downtown Disney, etc.). Also, I'm almost 100% positive that most (obviously not all) tourists buy at least 2 meals at the DLR each day. I think that that is a reasonable assumption.

I also think that it is reasonable to assume that it is EASIER for locals to NOT pay for two meals if they are even staying the whole day. My guess is that a lot of local APs don't spend the whole day, so if they buy meals it will probably only be one, maybe two.

And while everybody who thinks ahead like a DISboard member could potentially carry their own water bottle and fill it up, etc....we must accept for this that that is not the reality, and I would guess that people who carry around their own water only make up a small portion of the park's attendance on any given day.

I'm not trying to argue against your last point. That is very very true. However, tourists going to DLR for 5 days are more likely to give Disney more $ than a local who goes for 5 separate days with an AP. That is my point.

:End of opinion piece:

 

[Peace.love.mickey]

Tourists bring the $ (especially hotel rooms and souvenirs), not AP holders.

I am an AP...I sure bring the money...I stay onsite and spend a boat load of money of stuff and because I AM and AP holder I go back more often then just your average ticket holder so we might spend less per trip, we end up spending WAY more in the long run with ALL of the trips Us AP holders have our DL needs too Even the socal ones...they need their dole whips darnit