DxDDP vs. OOP

[Duckkie]

When my husband and I went in '08 we did the DDP (1 CS, 1 TS, 1 snack) and ended up spending about $350 more in food/drinks because we did not really use the CS credits

So, I'm looking for people that have done the Deluxe Disney Dining Plan as well as have paid out of pocket. I'm also mainly looking for people that eat like we do when we travel as a group. **We do have premier WDW/DL AP's so we can qualify to purchase a TiW card if we choose not to do DxDDP**

1. My teenage (15/16 year olds) Girl Scouts are foodies. They love to try new foods but don't always want to eat everything they ordered. They like to taste, nibble, and share.

2. We have two diabetics in our group. We stop and eat often sometimes four small meals plus a couple snacks.

3. We almost always order a couple appetizers and desserts to share. Rarely do we consume a whole appetizer/dessert each.

4. Cost... We have budgeted $600pp for food for 9 days (8 nights). We can do the DxDDP for $576pp (at '10 prices) and do see that as a good value but A LOT more food than we imagine eating. But I can see us exceeding that $600pp number for some and coming way under budget for others. The buy-in for the trip is $600pp flat no matter what the ordering habits for individual members of the trip would be. We also will be at IOA for HP one day and we have an additional $40pp budgeted for food there.

5. Counter Service vs. Table Service -- we are not CS people generally. Not because we are anti-CS but because we like the time to sit and relax and enjoy our meals rather than scarfing food down on the run.

6. Signature dining/shows -- they definitely know they want to eat lunch at CRT, do the HDDR, and the Luau. That is 6 TS credits per person for 3 meals. For CRT it seems to make more sense to pay out of pocket for that meal rather than burning through 2 TS, not sure about the Luau and HDDR since I've never done either of those previously.

Opinions? We will need to add dining when new '11 prices are released mid-August and our ADR date is 12/1 which is *only* 4 months, 3 weeks, and 1 day away!

 

[MajorThomasina]

What you're asking is a little complicated and I'm not sure I follow, but I think this will help you out.

Robinb's and Tricia1972's DDP Planning Spreadsheets

 

[Cafeen]

For starters, typically you'll end up with roughly the same savings using TiW vs DxDDP, especially once you introduce sharing and splitting into the mix. DxDDP can save you a bit more if most of your group uses it as designed.

Now, from reading your "outline", it appears you are taking a group of Girl Scouts down to Disney? That's the impression that I got and as such, the following will apply to that (although, most of the items can also apply to a single family as well).

A few key points...

• The lighter eaters and sharers. Are these the norm for the group, or just a few out of the total? (I understand you don't know yet, just a general question). Typically, the less you share and the more entitlements you consume, the better off you'll be. If most of the group will be sharing and splitting meals, TiW will be the way to go. Otherwise, DxDDP will work as well.
• Do you plan to use at least 2/3 of the credits at TS locations? This is roughly the break-even point for DxDDP so if you're planning less, TiW will surely be the better choice.
• Are you (and your girls) ok with the amount of time that sitting down at least twice a day will take up? (This could be 60-90 minutes per meal). On top of that, are you ok with having to make all the dining plans roughly 6 months ahead of time, and sticking to them at the parks? If this may be an issue, then dropping a few meals at key times may be important, which may shift it over to the TiW side of things.
• Are you and your girls always going to be eating together? Not sure of their situation, but if you're the only one with the TiW card, you can't use it at multiple locations at once. If you decide to split up for a meal or two, it may be better to utlize the DxDDP so they can use their own credits.
• If paying OOP (or using TiW), would you (or the girls) be too worried about what each individual item may cost? If this could hamper your (or their) enjoyment and experience, then DxDDP may be the way to go here as well.

Just some of the things that go into the decision on whether TiW or DxDDP is the better choice.

As far as 2 credit locations, on DxDDP they aren't a big deal due to the amount of credits you get and the lack of restaurant type restrictions on them (3 general credits vs 1 TS and 1QS credit). In fact, a very common practice is to plan 2 meals a day, 1 single TS breakfast or lunch (and some of these can be QS without risking much savings on the plan), and then a 2TS Signature Dinner or Dinner Show.

 

[Duckkie]

Thanks Allan, so much food for thought!

For starters, typically you'll end up with roughly the same savings using TiW vs DxDDP, especially once you introduce sharing and splitting into the mix. DxDDP can save you a bit more if most of your group uses it as designed.

That was pretty much my assumption too even taking into account the $75 initial outlay for the TiW card.

Now, from reading your "outline", it appears you are taking a group of Girl Scouts down to Disney? That's the impression that I got and as such, the following will apply to that (although, most of the items can also apply to a single family as well).

Yes, we are a Girl Scout troop of 7 people. Our girls have been working/saving for this since February 2009

A few key points...

• The lighter eaters and sharers. Are these the norm for the group, or just a few out of the total? (I understand you don't know yet, just a general question). Typically, the less you share and the more entitlements you consume, the better off you'll be. If most of the group will be sharing and splitting meals, TiW will be the way to go. Otherwise, DxDDP will work as well.
  
  It's a toss up really. We've had times at Disneyland where everyone shares and other times when it's a feeding frenzy and everyone wants their own. But we tend to share meals maybe slightly more often than not. I've gotten the impression that ordering 1 appetizer, 1 entree, and 1 dessert for two people to share is frowned upon when using DDP. Is that correct? We aren't people though that feel they MUST clean their plate if they order it. Yes, that is more waste and it pains me (hence, sharing) but it wouldn't be rolling us out of the restaurant if we did order our own meals.
  
• Do you plan to use at least 2/3 of the credits at TS locations? This is roughly the break-even point for DxDDP so if you're planning less, TiW will surely be the better choice.
  Yes, at least 2/3 are planned for TS meals. I think non-character breakfasts would be our only CS meals. If it helps we are staying at THV's for 8 nights.
• Are you (and your girls) ok with the amount of time that sitting down at least twice a day will take up? (This could be 60-90 minutes per meal). On top of that, are you ok with having to make all the dining plans roughly 6 months ahead of time, and sticking to them at the parks? If this may be an issue, then dropping a few meals at key times may be important, which may shift it over to the TiW side of things.
  Yes, the sit-down time is the main reason for doing TS meals. It gives us time to check blood sugar, rest, medicate, and regroup for the rest of the day. Since these girls will be older teens we don't see much of them until it's time to sit down and eat. Mealtimes are meeting/regroup times for us. Each girl was given a day to plan for food and we will be following her schedule so I'm not really worried about missing reservations. The girls have known what their day will consist of for about three weeks now even though I can't even make reservations until December 1st! Can you tell they are excited about this trip?
• Are you and your girls always going to be eating together? Not sure of their situation, but if you're the only one with the TiW card, you can't use it at multiple locations at once. If you decide to split up for a meal or two, it may be better to utlize the DxDDP so they can use their own credits.
  With the exception of snacks everyone will be eating meals together.
  
• If paying OOP (or using TiW), would you (or the girls) be too worried about what each individual item may cost? If this could hamper your (or their) enjoyment and experience, then DxDDP may be the way to go here as well.
  I don't think it is so much worried about individual cost doing TiW it will be one particular parent that would want $$ back if her little darling didn't spend as much as someone else. Given our parent contracts state it's a flat $640pp for food this trip there isn't anything she can do, but it would be annoying to have to "settle up" budget-wise at the end. Also since we are doing Maui in 2013 it may cause some resentment towards the bigger eaters from this parent since ALL our trips are always food flat-fee'd. It's just easier that way.

Just some of the things that go into the decision on whether TiW or DxDDP is the better choice.

As far as 2 credit locations, on DxDDP they aren't a big deal due to the amount of credits you get and the lack of restaurant type restrictions on them (3 general credits vs 1 TS and 1QS credit). In fact, a very common practice is to plan 2 meals a day, 1 single TS breakfast or lunch (and some of these can be QS without risking much savings on the plan), and then a 2TS Signature Dinner or Dinner Show.

Hmmmm... I was reading somewhere that the DxDDP credits are worth approx $22ea ($72 - Snack credits x 2 $6 = $66/3 = $22) which would put all signature dining on DxDDP easily worth 2 TS credits. With a full day at Universal that leaves us with 3 "unused" credits we can use for our 3 signature dining meals so I guess it evens out for us. Now to figure out which two to do for sure besides CRT!
I think my main hesitation about doing DxDDP is the HUGE cost on the front end. For our group it's $4,032 for food for 8 days. That's more than we spent on our Treehouse!

 

[Cafeen]

Thanks Allan, so much food for thought!



Hmmmm... I was reading somewhere that the DxDDP credits are worth approx $22ea ($72 - Snack credits x 2 $6 = $66/3 = $22) which would put all signature dining on DxDDP easily worth 2 TS credits. With a full day at Universal that leaves us with 3 "unused" credits we can use for our 3 signature dining meals so I guess it evens out for us. Now to figure out which two to do for sure besides CRT!
I think my main hesitation about doing DxDDP is the HUGE cost on the front end. For our group it's $4,032 for food for 8 days. That's more than we spent on our Treehouse!

Hm, I wonder who said that hehe. (I posted it in someone else's budgeting thread).

From the sounds of it, especially from the parents' point of view, DxDDP sounds like a better option. This way it's a ton easier for you to just go, "This is the cost of the plan, this is what they get" instead of having to worry about "My little princess could never have eaten that much!!"

The initial outlay (especially for a party that size) is quite costly, but once broken down to per person, it's a heck of a lot more manageable. It may be a good idea to present the parents with some sort of explanation of both the plan and the general OOP prices as well, so they can better see that dining at Disney is costly no matter what, and the plan will be saving some money (I'm going to assume they won't know about your TiW card?).

You will want to be careful with the snack credits, as they are simply pooled all together for the room. May be best to collect receipts for everyone's snacks (at least the ones paid for with credits) (or, at least ask for them to be turned in at the end of the day, to keep them thinking you're pouring over them ) just to keep them on track. Same deal goes with any extra CS meals they may pick up. Make sure the girls know how the credits are pooled and that they're responsible for unplanned meals (unless you have extra credits, then you can let them figure out how best to spend them for themselves).

All of that last paragraph you probably already know... but it's easier to type this part than delete it all!

So, in summary...
I'd suggest going with the plan for a few key reasons

• Savings will be on-par with what you will get with TiW. Due to sharing, it may not be quite as good, but there will certainly be a good amount of savings there.
• Ability to give the parents a set price for food without having to worry about variation.
• Ability to use Credit Card hold for SoA, HDDR, and CRT rather than having to pay up front. This will help your own personal OOP expenses and/or give the parents until that 45-day mark to pay off their child's dining portion (rather than having to collect for those 3 at the 180day mark).

 

[Duckkie]

Hm, I wonder who said that hehe. (I posted it in someone else's budgeting thread).

See! I knew I had heard it from a reliable source!

From the sounds of it, especially from the parents' point of view, DxDDP sounds like a better option. This way it's a ton easier for you to just go, "This is the cost of the plan, this is what they get" instead of having to worry about "My little princess could never have eaten that much!!"

Exactly. Of course the little princess can usually out-eat me (the 25lb overweight leader!).

The initial outlay (especially for a party that size) is quite costly, but once broken down to per person, it's a heck of a lot more manageable. It may be a good idea to present the parents with some sort of explanation of both the plan and the general OOP prices as well, so they can better see that dining at Disney is costly no matter what, and the plan will be saving some money (I'm going to assume they won't know about your TiW card?).

I'm pretty convinced we should do the DxDDP but if by some chance I get a wild hair to do TiW I won't be advertising that fact. 18% gratuity added is already in our budget for incidentals and 20% savings would be my lil secret.

You will want to be careful with the snack credits, as they are simply pooled all together for the room. May be best to collect receipts for everyone's snacks (at least the ones paid for with credits) (or, at least ask for them to be turned in at the end of the day, to keep them thinking you're pouring over them ) just to keep them on track. Same deal goes with any extra CS meals they may pick up. Make sure the girls know how the credits are pooled and that they're responsible for unplanned meals (unless you have extra credits, then you can let them figure out how best to spend them for themselves).

Am I correct in thinking all 112 snack credits (OMG that sound like sooo much!) will be available on all the KTTW cards and will deduct from all cards as used. Like I said it's been since '08 when we did DDP last.

All of that last paragraph you probably already know... but it's easier to type this part than delete it all!

So, in summary...
I'd suggest going with the plan for a few key reasons

• Savings will be on-par with what you will get with TiW. Due to sharing, it may not be quite as good, but there will certainly be a good amount of savings there.
• Ability to give the parents a set price for food without having to worry about variation.
• Ability to use Credit Card hold for SoA, HDDR, and CRT rather than having to pay up front. This will help your own personal OOP expenses and/or give the parents until that 45-day mark to pay off their child's dining portion (rather than having to collect for those 3 at the 180day mark).

Thank you so much for your time in "talking" this out with me. It makes my decision so much easier and more logical in my own mind. It's a huge amount of money we are spending (17k over-all) and I want to make sure we are getting the biggest bang for our buck given all the hard work that has gone into this trip.

Oh and the costs.... everything for this trip all girls must be paid in full 2/15/11 so it isn't really *that* far away in my mind which is why the uber-planning now.

 

[Cafeen]

Am I correct in thinking all 112 snack credits (OMG that sound like sooo much!) will be available on all the KTTW cards and will deduct from all cards as used. Like I said it's been since '08 when we did DDP last.

Yep, that is correct. (And, yep, that does look like a TON of Mickey Bars and Dole Whips!, I'm sure I can help you burn through some ).

That's why I mentioned that it may be a good idea to let the girls know ahead of time, as well as potentially ask for receipts for snacks purchased with credits. I'm sure they're all trustworthy (isn't that part of the Girl Scout pledge thing? I know it was for Boy Scouts) so it's not an issue for that, but merely to make sure that they are accounted for and that you can keep everyone on track with what they've already received and how much is remaining for each of them. (Might be a good idea to make a small spreadsheet to check them off or something?)

Everything else is sounding good at this time.

 

[Duckkie]

Yep, that is correct. (And, yep, that does look like a TON of Mickey Bars and Dole Whips!, I'm sure I can help you burn through some ).

Well, if you're in the World when we are (5/29 - 6/7/2011) I'll treat you to the Snack of your choice!

That's why I mentioned that it may be a good idea to let the girls know ahead of time, as well as potentially ask for receipts for snacks purchased with credits. I'm sure they're all trustworthy (isn't that part of the Girl Scout pledge thing? I know it was for Boy Scouts) so it's not an issue for that, but merely to make sure that they are accounted for and that you can keep everyone on track with what they've already received and how much is remaining for each of them. (Might be a good idea to make a small spreadsheet to check them off or something?)

Everything else is sounding good at this time.

Yes, the Girl Scout Law most definitely mentions HONEST AND FAIR! : I was thinking of doing the snack credit punch card thing but these girls will be older and not sure if that would be "cool" for them. Maybe just a receipt collection at the end of each day would work best. Of course if one of the leaders : goes over on her snacks......

 

[emmysmommy]

I just have to comment that Cafeen did an awesome job breaking this down. Going with the DxDP certainly makes sense!!

Duckkie - how do you like the Premier pass? I'm thinking of getting one during our next trip. We live near Disneyland so we'll definitely get the use out of it in CA. We plan to do another WDW trip early next year so that would be another 6-7 days of use as well. It sounds like a great idea but....if we don't take the second WDW trip before it expires that means that we may not realize that much in savings. We are purchasing 10 day Park Hoppers for our upcoming WDW trip and applying what we pay to the cost of the Premier pass if that factors into the equation at all.

 

[Cafeen]

Well, if you're in the World when we are (5/29 - 6/7/2011) I'll treat you to the Snack of your choice!

Doh, figures. That's right smack dab at the start of my "busy season" . You can just have one (or 5, not all at once of course though) for me .

(I do development and quality assurance work for a software company that works with Schools and School Districts, as such, our prime release time is over the summer while school is out.. hence we don't get time off between mid-May and August . Of course, this pretty much means that Value season is also our lighter season , so that works out well for the bank account).

I just have to comment that Cafeen did an awesome job breaking this down. Going with the DxDP certainly makes sense!!

Thanks! , I'm good like that .

I do have to say that normally, I'd probably be more apt to suggest TiW for a case similar to Dukkie's (sharing, lighter eaters, etc) from a pure savings perspective, and would surely do this if it were a single family. However, the dynamic of different families in the mix makes a very strong case for the more structured dining plan. It will allow those families to know the exact cost of the plan as well as exactly what is covered. Giving them the average pricing along with the plans will also help assure them that they are definitely saving money. So, yes, it'd likely be slightly cheaper to use TiW in this case, but much less hassle to use the plan. Since both will offer decent savings, may as well go with something that's easier on everyone .

 

[Duckkie]

I just have to comment that Cafeen did an awesome job breaking this down. Going with the DxDP certainly makes sense!!

Duckkie - how do you like the Premier pass? I'm thinking of getting one during our next trip. We live near Disneyland so we'll definitely get the use out of it in CA. We plan to do another WDW trip early next year so that would be another 6-7 days of use as well. It sounds like a great idea but....if we don't take the second WDW trip before it expires that means that we may not realize that much in savings. We are purchasing 10 day Park Hoppers for our upcoming WDW trip and applying what we pay to the cost of the Premier pass if that factors into the equation at all.

Yes, he did! Sometimes it's necessary just to "talk" it out with someone that understands the options to figure out the best plan/course to take.

The Premier depends on your intended use. In our case we buy the $439 deluxe DL AP already, so that means we would only need to buy $261 in WDW tix to break even so given our 9 day trip it made sense to go premier. Even better... Hubby, DD15, and I will be returning to WDW November '11 for four days so we will use them again!

 

[emmysmommy]

The Premier depends on your intended use. In our case we buy the $439 deluxe DL AP already, so that means we would only need to buy $261 in WDW tix to break even so given our 9 day trip it made sense to go premier. Even better... Hubby, DD15, and I will be returning to WDW November '11 for four days so we will use them again!

Did you purchase your Premiere passes at WDW? I think I read that you can't get them everywhere - only certain locations.

For this trip we are purchasing 10 day PHs so we already are spending in excess of $261 each for tix. I'm just hoping that I can upgrade and apply the cost of my 10 day park hoppers to the Premiere.

Thanks for responding and best of luck with all the planning for the Scouts trip!

 

[Duckkie]

No, at Disneyland just at the regular ticket booth. They don't sell many of them though so you have to specify you need the WDW/DL pass or they will try to sell you the deluxe only.

You shouldn't have a problem upgrading as we upgraded one of our girls regular DL pass to a Premiere no problem!

Thanks! I'm so looking forward to this trip. The girls have worked their butts off since February 2009 to be able to go 100% (hotel, tickets, flights, food, tips, etc) on fund-raised money instead of having mom & dad pony up the cash.

Did you purchase your Premiere passes at WDW? I think I read that you can't get them everywhere - only certain locations.

For this trip we are purchasing 10 day PHs so we already are spending in excess of $261 each for tix. I'm just hoping that I can upgrade and apply the cost of my 10 day park hoppers to the Premiere.

Thanks for responding and best of luck with all the planning for the Scouts trip!

 

[Duckkie]

Doh, figures. That's right smack dab at the start of my "busy season" . You can just have one (or 5, not all at once of course though) for me .

Oh too bad! If you'll PM me an address we'll send you something special but sadly not a Mickey bar or Dole Whip!

(I do development and quality assurance work for a software company that works with Schools and School Districts, as such, our prime release time is over the summer while school is out.. hence we don't get time off between mid-May and August . Of course, this pretty much means that Value season is also our lighter season , so that works out well for the bank account).

And we are going at the END of my busy season. I'm a tax accountant.

Thanks! , I'm good like that .

I do have to say that normally, I'd probably be more apt to suggest TiW for a case similar to Dukkie's (sharing, lighter eaters, etc) from a pure savings perspective, and would surely do this if it were a single family. However, the dynamic of different families in the mix makes a very strong case for the more structured dining plan. It will allow those families to know the exact cost of the plan as well as exactly what is covered. Giving them the average pricing along with the plans will also help assure them that they are definitely saving money. So, yes, it'd likely be slightly cheaper to use TiW in this case, but much less hassle to use the plan. Since both will offer decent savings, may as well go with something that's easier on everyone .

In our situation it will just be easier to say "here are your credits, this is what you get, have fun!