DVC Trust Eroding - Trust Thermocline

[Cfabar1]

I don't think we will find a better resort than PVB off property, so still really glad we bought in there. I could stop going to theme parks altogether (I might) and will still happily enjoy my vacation to PVB.

This is the greatness of Disney! There are so many different aspects to the company. SO, even if the theme parks are causing problems, try a great resort, or a cruise, or a movie, or even a good Disney dining option!

Unfortunately, it is also why so many of us are so forgiving to Disney… And we look past many of the problems, because the whole is sometimes greater than the parts….

 

[Starport Seven-Five]

A recent points guy article placed the cost of a 3 day/3 night trip to Disney running $3662.94, and that number included some travel hacks like Marriott certificates at the hotel, etc. That’s more than many 4 day 3 night trips on Disney Cruise Line! And, that is a short trip.

That was far from a budget trip though. 2 nights at the Riviera, 2 character meals, etc. Disney is expensive for sure but it can be done for less than $1,000 per day.

 

[DebbieB]

I have a lot of thoughts that I didn't get a chance to type out.

I will sound like a hypocrite here because of all my Disney complaints, yet I just added points this year. I will continue to go to Disney, spend tons of money on Disney trips and merch and probably add more DVC points. All in all, it is a great trip for my family. However, there are things that just don't sit right with me. A couple of things that come to mind and all randomly jotted down:

- If I have read correctly, when BLT was first sold, it had an established point chart and people bought in based on that. Then soon after, DVC changed the point chart to rebalance weekends/weekdays which meant a lot of new BLT owners were short on points for the trips they planned out when purchasing contracts. DVC reluctantly lowered the # of points for add-on so BLT owners could add on.

- Genie + is a money grab and makes me refer to Disney as "the Mickey Mafia". During our August trip, I purchased Genie+ as soon as it was available. My window for Remy was late in the day because I booked Frozen first. We rushed through a wonderful dinner at Trattoria al Forno to get to our 8 p.m. Remy reservation. Three families in front of us, the ride breaks down. I know there are bigger problems in life (the Hawaii fires were going on) but it just irked me that Disney will take more of your money at 6 a.m. and then this happens. My husband said it didn't matter because with DVC, we are bound to be back. Many families save for years for a once-in-a-lifetime trip to Disney.

- my fault for not purchasing park hopper tickets and then trying to upgrade them. At 7 p.m., spent one hour at the MK ticket window upgrading the tickets. We wanted to do Genie+ there but it was a couple of dollars more than what we paid for it at Epcot earlier in the day. I didn't have a credit card on me to pay the difference and you couldn't charge it via a magic band. It was close to 30 minutes before they added it complimentary. I know the corporate deal that they owe it to the shareholders to make money, but this was nickel and diming in my opinion.

- Not to sound like a conspiracy theorist but there is no clear communication on Poly Tower being new or same association. If Chang was so excited to share the news and so confident in it, why has DVC not had a follow-up publication on it? Why are some guides confirming her statement and others (mine) saying they can't confirm. Why is Chang's statement the only thing we have heard on it from DVC?

- Debacle with BWV refurbishment. Moving people days before check-in to an accommodation that is less than what they booked points for is unacceptable. DVC should have had a better handle on the refurb and yes, there are unforeseen problems with construction, but this isn't a one week issue. I hope they get their act together for the BLT refurb. I am fearful of booking for 2024/25.

It wasn’t just BLT that had the rebalance, all did. I based my purchase as Saturday to Friday 6 night stays, so only 1 weekend night. It made a big difference. If you did the full 7 nights, the difference was minimal. I have to admit, before the change, Saturday nights at OKW were a ghost town. Sunday was the big checkin day. So it probably needed done. That’s when they came out with one time use points, to help members short.

 

[Chuck96]

I understand and comprehend the trust thermocline, but I think it applies more to routine and infrequent customers than to the DVC crowd. The DVC crowd (we) are more invested, as a whole, both fiscally and emotionally. That said, it'sd been a tough few years for the brand, and they are certainly closer to the edge than they have been in quite some time. The sentiments expressed in here capture that. I'm a recent DVC member, and still feel relatively good about the decision, but it's more because of my family's feeling. Thank goodness we only have one child (who turned 20). If I had to Genie+ 3 or more kids for a several day trip, I'd just go to Wally World instead. Disney's incessant nickel and diming isn't really nickels and dimes. It's Lincolns and Jacksons. And the decisions misunderstand the intrinsic value of the bubble. If I need to rent two shuttles to get from and back to MCO, why not rent a car? If I need to rent a car, why not stay off property? If I stay off property, why not eat off property? Why not visit Universal and Sea World for 2-3 of the days (or more, when Epic Universe opens)? The MDE and magic bands feel like a penny pinching move in an inelastic market. But that market is getting REAL elastic.

Anyways, I'm hopeful they'll sufficiently course correct. It'll just take some time. And if not, I'll rent points out to the suckers. And if that dries up, I'll burn it all down and collect the insurance.

 

[Cfabar1]

I understand and comprehend the trust thermocline, buit I think it applies more to routine and infrequent cosutomers than to the DVC crowd. They are more invested, as a whole, both fiscally and emotionally. That said, it'sd been a tough few years for the brand, and they are certainly closer to the edge than they have been in quite some time. The sentiments expressed in here capture that. I'm a recent DVC member, and still feel relatively good about the decision, but it's more because of my family's feeling. Thank goodness we only have one child (who turned 20). If I had to Genie+ 3 or more kids for a several day trip, I'd just go to Wally World instead. They incessant nickel and diming isn't really nickels and dimes. It's Lincolns and Jacksons. And the decisions misunderstand the intrinsic value of the bubble. If I need to rent two shuttles to get from and back to MCO, why not rent a car? If I need to rent a car, why not stay off property? If I stay off property, why not eat off property? Why not visit Universal and Sea World for 2-3 of the days (or more, when Epic Universe opens)? The MDE and magic bands feel like a penny pinching move in an inelastic market. But that market is getting REAL elastic.

Anyways, I'm hopeful they'll sufficiently course correct. It'll just take some time. And if not, I'll rent points out to the suckers. And if that dries up, I'll burn it all down and collect the insurance.

A lot of good points here....

The best analogy I can think of to Disney is Apple Computer company....

Apple understands that getting users "into the system" is the biggest advantage. Once they are an iPhone user, they're likely to want the Mac that "just works with it", or their iCloud storage plan, or their music app, or whatever....

Disney, strangely enough, seems to be adopting a strategy where each aspect of the company must "prove itself", rather than relying on the synergy.... At this point, and I know this will be controversial here, I honestly don't know why people would consider staying on property at a Disney resort unless it was a walk, monorail, boat ride, or skyline away from a theme park or two. They have eliminated so many of the advantages to being on property, and the prices they are charging have reached truly insane levels when compared to the off property options.

All while Universal is putting massive investment into their parks....

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

It wasn’t just BLT that had the rebalance, all did. I based my purchase as Saturday to Friday 6 night stays, so only 1 weekend night. It made a big difference. If you did the full 7 nights, the difference was minimal. I have to admit, before the change, Saturday nights at OKW were a ghost town. Sunday was the big checkin day. So it probably needed done. That’s when they came out with one time use points, to help members short.

The difference with BLT though is that it had the point chart change prior to even opening. Since it's supposed to be based on usage that wasn't the basis. DVC was inappropriate with that property either in the initial point charts they released or in adjusting points when they did all the other DVC charts.

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

If you feel it is overpriced why do you go?

Overpriced and overcrowded are two complaints I see constantly on this board. That seems to not make sense.

We don’t go. We do universal now. Only go to Disney with the occasional moonlight madness. Been this way since Covid. We used to own annual passes at Disney. For us it’s not the money. It’s the BS. We have a very low BS tolerance. Started with Disney’s mask policy. Universal dropped their mask requirement as soon as possible. Disney kept theirs because why? Well genie is a continuation of that as far a I’m concerned. Why are people waking up at 6 or 7 to try to get a reservation for a ride? That’s a job, not a vacation. Makes no sense. Disney is now run by micromanagers. They are such control freaks that they want to control their customers. And they’re not even good at it. No micromanager is. Fastpass helped people organize the day. Genie restricts people. I’m not paying to impose bureaucratic nonsense on my family and especially not on my kids. DH also would lose his mind.
Watch:

Agreed it's not just a Disney thing. A lot of companies are being very short-sighted (a huge flaw in our current economic models that focus almost solely on quarterly profits). Disney for a time seemed to buck this trend, though, and really seemed to understand that creating wow experiences and building that nostalgia will win them repeat customers for not just their lifetimes, but for their kids, and grandkids, and so on.

I do not think my kids will have the same connection to Disney that we did, because as they are becoming adults, they are all too aware of the nickel-and-diming that Disney is doing, and while sure they remember the magic they experienced when they were little (to some degree), they are not seeing the same value as young adults that we saw as young adults.

If we didn't own DVC, we would not be visiting Disney nearly as often as we do now. Which, yes, I know that's why they sell DVC. And we will continue to go, because it holds great memories for us, and we love it. But our last few trips, we've certainly been discussing how much extra it costs now to do everything, and we're more likely to do more and more resort stays, and certainly less dining given the costs. I don't necessarily want to be cooking during my vacations, but I also don't want to spend the kind of money we've been spending for meals... we did Crystal Palace for dinner and for four of us, after taxes and tip, it was over $300! So I think even for us, there may come a time where the value isn't where it was, and we consider at least downsizing.

But I keep hoping that Disney will try to turn things around, and invest in the value and experiences again!

Our kids are also losing their Disney loyalty. And it isn’t an aging thing. Very sad. Bob Iger has done a great job dismantling that company.

 

[TheDailyMoo]

Disney is now run by micromanagers. They are such control freaks that they want to control their customers. And they’re not even good at it. No micromanager is. Fastpass helped people organize the day. Genie restricts people. I’m not paying to impose bureaucratic nonsense on my family and especially not on my kids.

When it comes to Disney corporate leadership it really does feel like the Peter Principle in action

 

[Rex1993]

- Not to sound like a conspiracy theorist but there is no clear communication on Poly Tower being new or same association. If Chang was so excited to share the news and so confident in it, why has DVC not had a follow-up publication on it? Why are some guides confirming her statement and others (mine) saying they can't confirm. Why is Chang's statement the only thing we have heard on it from DVC?

- Debacle with BWV refurbishment. Moving people days before check-in to an accommodation that is less than what they booked points for is unacceptable. DVC should have had a better handle on the refurb and yes, there are unforeseen problems with construction, but this isn't a one week issue. I hope they get their act together for the BLT refurb. I am fearful of booking for 2024/25.

I'm just going to address these two points because they're something that really gets me heated about DVC. The fact of the matter is that we don't know anything because the associations conduct themselves as extensions of DVC/DVD instead of independent associations. I've harped on this before, especially as it relates to VGC, but there don't seem to be many interested. As I've said before, I do kind of get it. This kind of BS is ubiquitious in the timeshare world and so you buy with the sad but realistic expecatition that the association will never operate in compliance with the law.

 

[Punkrockbebop]

For me, the straw that broke this camel’s back was VGF2. It’s really impacted our ability to get DLX studios (have no interest in the hotel rooms). I never thought when we purchased back in 2013 that our VGF points would be SAP…

What is SAP?

 

[Helaman]

For instance, the magical express to me was more than a bus ride. I looked forward to that stupid video they would play on the three CRT mini tv screens they had!

This!

 

[CarolynFH]

What is SAP?

Sleep around points, used to stay elsewhere, not at the home resort, most of the time.

 

[Unclelude]

Only go to Disney with the occasional moonlight madness.

same boat.

"moonlight madness" - lol great description.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

DVC is no different than any other part of the Walt Disney Company. IMHO, they are making a lot of the same missteps for the same reasons.

I think Disney is testing the preverbal waters post-COVID to figure out what the new normal is, and once the "revenge travel" ends, they find no more water under the boat.

I think the revenge travel may have given Disney false data, and Disney acted on it.

They admitted such in their SEC filing about the movie divisions.

For those of you who remember the "train wreck" that was NEW COKE, I think Disney maybe in the same position.

Disney did market research. Disney thought it knew what consumers wanted and what the consumers were willing to pay...

Disney was wrong....

Disney will either figure it out and, QUIETLY, return to the old normal

Or, well, I guess we know the term "too big to fail" is not a real thing...

There is a lot of pressure to restructure the board, or at least a very large shareholder wants two seats,

Does that put pressure on the board to rethink things??? only time will tell

 

[Mai Ku Tiki]

We own DVC, and are likely using it to visit universal studios our next trip. I just started planning, but I'm still so unhappy with WDW in so many ways. The main thing I use to enjoy was the all-inclusive feel a vacation had, but now that is completely gone.

I don't think we will find a better resort than PVB off property, so still really glad we bought in there. I could stop going to theme parks altogether (I might) and will still happily enjoy my vacation to PVB.

My pet peeve is the length of time now it takes for maintainenance in Parks & Resorts...
NOW THRU FALL? SIX MONTHS to paint???

"Now through Fall 2024, work will take place to paint the exterior of buildings throughout Disney's Polynesian Village Resort & Bungalows, with Guest room balconies also being affected. Guests may see and hear painting work during daytime hours, typically from 9:00 AM to 5:00 PM."

 

[SL6827]

My pet peeve is the length of time now it takes for maintainenance in Parks & Resorts...
NOW THRU FALL? SIX MONTHS to paint???

"Now through Fall 2024, work will take place to paint the exterior of buildings throughout Disney's Polynesian Village Resort & Bungalows, with Guest room balconies also being affected. Guests may see and hear painting work during daytime hours, typically from 9:00 AM to 5:00 PM."

They really hate to spend money on this.

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

My pet peeve is the length of time now it takes for maintainenance in Parks & Resorts...
NOW THRU FALL? SIX MONTHS to paint???

"Now through Fall 2024, work will take place to paint the exterior of buildings throughout Disney's Polynesian Village Resort & Bungalows, with Guest room balconies also being affected. Guests may see and hear painting work during daytime hours, typically from 9:00 AM to 5:00 PM."

Just reeks of incompetence

I doubt Iger would tolerate more than a week with painters in his own home.
He and other execs do not have enough pressure on them. They have not been forced to feel their failure. They keep their jobs and huge pay packages: How can Kathleen Kennedy keep her job while she produces movie flop after flop? It is shocking that she has not been fired. She has literally destroyed both the Star Wars and Indiana jones franchises. That South Park episode about her was absolutely hysterical.

 

[Mai Ku Tiki]

I have a lot of thoughts that I didn't get a chance to type out.

I will sound like a hypocrite here because of all my Disney complaints, yet I just added points this year. I will continue to go to Disney, spend tons of money on Disney trips and merch and probably add more DVC points. All in all, it is a great trip for my family. However, there are things that just don't sit right with me. A couple of things that come to mind and all randomly jotted down:

- If I have read correctly, when BLT was first sold, it had an established point chart and people bought in based on that. Then soon after, DVC changed the point chart to rebalance weekends/weekdays which meant a lot of new BLT owners were short on points for the trips they planned out when purchasing contracts. DVC reluctantly lowered the # of points for add-on so BLT owners could add on.

- Genie + is a money grab and makes me refer to Disney as "the Mickey Mafia". During our August trip, I purchased Genie+ as soon as it was available. My window for Remy was late in the day because I booked Frozen first. We rushed through a wonderful dinner at Trattoria al Forno to get to our 8 p.m. Remy reservation. Three families in front of us, the ride breaks down. I know there are bigger problems in life (the Hawaii fires were going on) but it just irked me that Disney will take more of your money at 6 a.m. and then this happens. My husband said it didn't matter because with DVC, we are bound to be back. Many families save for years for a once-in-a-lifetime trip to Disney.

- my fault for not purchasing park hopper tickets and then trying to upgrade them. At 7 p.m., spent one hour at the MK ticket window upgrading the tickets. We wanted to do Genie+ there but it was a couple of dollars more than what we paid for it at Epcot earlier in the day. I didn't have a credit card on me to pay the difference and you couldn't charge it via a magic band. It was close to 30 minutes before they added it complimentary. I know the corporate deal that they owe it to the shareholders to make money, but this was nickel and diming in my opinion.

- Not to sound like a conspiracy theorist but there is no clear communication on Poly Tower being new or same association. If Chang was so excited to share the news and so confident in it, why has DVC not had a follow-up publication on it? Why are some guides confirming her statement and others (mine) saying they can't confirm. Why is Chang's statement the only thing we have heard on it from DVC?

- Debacle with BWV refurbishment. Moving people days before check-in to an accommodation that is less than what they booked points for is unacceptable. DVC should have had a better handle on the refurb and yes, there are unforeseen problems with construction, but this isn't a one week issue. I hope they get their act together for the BLT refurb. I am fearful of booking for 2024/25.

As to Poly Tower, DVC & Ms Chang...THIS is probably why there's been no hard confirmation...There's a new DVD Trust in town...CFW is named as part of it. Poly Tower may be involved. This is an important thread to follow if you're interested (especially current PVB owners)
https://www.disboards.com/threads/dvc-club-level-and-home-resort-survey.3935147/post-65233986

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

As to Poly Tower, DVC & Ms Chang...THIS is probably why there's been no hard confirmation...There's a new DVD Trust in town...CFW is named as part of it. Poly Tower may be involved. This is an important thread to follow if you're interested (especially current PVB owners)
https://www.disboards.com/threads/dvc-club-level-and-home-resort-survey.3935147/post-65233986

Sorry what is CFW?

 

[kilik64]

Sorry what is CFW?

Cabins Fort Wilderness