DVC T &C Personal Use - Only Thread to Discuss.

[WinterSolider]

But that's the problem, they can't make studios more expensive and at the same time lower the 1br. They can lower the studios in 1 season and raise them in another. Same with 1br, lower in 1 season and higher in another,

Since when? Weren't people freaking out about Poly 1 because they were afraid points might someday get reallocated off of the Bungalows and onto the Studios?

 

[Mouseforward]

This has the same net result.

So, for the families of five that book studios, they now have to book a one bedroom and spend more in points? Perhaps they didn't buy a contract with points to cover that. Now they are having to what, buy more? buy OTUP yearly? (if it even bridges the gap) or vacation less?


No, that is a crap idea.

It is too late, but my issue was the studios in BW were sold originally as 4 person units. As were the 1br. I think it was a mistake to add the 5th sleeper to the studio when there was already a room demand inbalance. Due to the small size they could not add the 5th to the living room like Riviera which would have made the 1 br a 5 sleeper , and the studio a 4 . That would have slightly helped or just not made studio demand worse.

It makes more sense for a large family to rent 2 studios for 20 points vs a one 1br for 24 points.... that kills studio availability.

 

[walt34]

I thought this for a minute but the logistics are probably cost prohibitive. Think of just the plumbing. Never mind the electrical. What about windows? Perhaps some buildings and units are more amenable to this but I doubt it is a viable solution across the board.

Well, they wouldn't have to convert all 1BRs, but if they can convert 10-20% in those resorts, where it seems necessary (e.g. VGF wouldn't need it because of the addition of BPK-building), it would make a huge difference.
So, find the 1BRs which can be converted most easily, electrics shouldn't be a major problem, plumbing might be more complex but wouldn't it mostly be removing a kitchen and extending a bathroom?
Whether they could do it legally/contractually is a different question.

 

[theww228]

Yes, correcting the imbalance of point charts should be done if possible (AK value, BW std, 1BR vs other sizes, etc), but the biggest fix which IMHO takes care of 95% of the issues is eliminating/reducing spec reservations. Obviously there would be some type of negative impact to owners, most likely by reducing the number of name changes allowable.

I really feel that if someone is renting out their points, even if it is 100% of their points, but they are renting them directly into someone's name it really does not affect the overall system. Most people renting are looking for less than 7 months out and it is the same opportunity that everyone else has. The points in the system are getting used as intended. If someone wants to work with an owner and book in their name for a Race or other popular time at 11 months I am fine with that. However an owner booking 10 studios during a Race and renting them out over the next 6 months, I believe this is what does damage to the system. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Mouseforward]

Since when? Weren't people freaking out about Poly 1 because they were afraid points might someday get reallocated off of the Bungalows and onto the Studios?

It was done with the treehouses. I thought they rolled it back in poly

 

[muppets3d]

Well, they wouldn't have to convert all 1BRs, but if they can convert 10-20% in those resorts, where it seems necessary (e.g. VGF wouldn't need it because of the addition of BPK-building), it would make a huge difference.
So, find the 1BRs which can be converted most easily, electrics shouldn't be a major problem, plumbing might be more complex but wouldn't it mostly be removing a kitchen and extending a bathroom?
Whether they could do it legally/contractually is a different question.

It's really only Boardwalk and Jambo (and at times, Riviera) with the value/club/tower studios that availability is a big concern. Other views at those resorts, and other resorts with studios, don't have the same issues. I mean I can book a studio at Saratoga or Old Key West well within the 7-month mark almost any time of the year. And as long as I don't want a value or club studio, I can book at Jambo well within the 7-month mark as well.

I do think DVC should bring studios and 1 bedroom points more in line with each other, but that's mostly because 1 bedroom villas book much slower than other room types at most resorts (including larger villas like 2 bedrooms). Not because the studios are getting snapped up immediately program-wide, because by and large they aren't. They definitely book up first, that's for sure.

 

[Mouseforward]

Yes, correcting the imbalance of point charts should be done if possible (AK value, BW std, 1BR vs other sizes, etc), but the biggest fix which IMHO takes care of 95% of the issues is eliminating/reducing spec reservations. Obviously there would be some type of negative impact to owners, most likely by reducing the number of name changes allowable.

No at least in BW it would have no effect , spec renters rent popular days because they are popular ... they are popular with non owners who get points from rental sites and DVC members that own points.

If all the BW spec renters sold their points, the points would be sold at todays high market value which only makes them attractive to people who want to stay at BW (or add ons) these buyers would then be competing for the same popular nights. No one is buying BW now for SAP.

Its the point inequity, and low number of available units that creates the excess demand for SV

 

[Mouseforward]

It's really only Boardwalk and Jambo (and at times, Riviera) with the value/club/tower studios that availability is a big concern. Other views at those resorts, and other resorts with studios, don't have the same issues. I mean I can book a studio at Saratoga or Old Key West well within the 7-month mark almost any time of the year. And as long as I don't want a value or club studio, I can book at Jambo well within the 7-month mark as well.

Yes, ( but i would add the hotel rooms at Aulani) and they have the same thing in common, underpriced point charts, and low volume. If people who did not know DVC looked at this thread they would think studios were hard to book at 11 months.... they are not, you can even book BW studios at popular times at 11 months if you get up at 8 am.

 

[muppets3d]

Yes, ( but i would add the hotel rooms at Aulani) and they have the same thing in common, underpriced point charts, and low volume. If people who did not know DVC looked at this thread they would think studios were hard to book at 11 months.... they are not, you can even book BW studios at popular times at 11 months if you get up at 8 am.

And certainly lots of it has to do with commercial owners booking up the rooms that are appealing for renters - but a lot of it is also just the fact that demographics in the membership are shifting - more DINKs own DVC now, families are fine with studios because they don't need feel like they need a kitchen, etc.

 

[WinterSolider]

more DINKs own DVC now

Source: Trust me bro.
See also: I made it up.

 

[Mouseforward]

And certainly lots of it has to do with commercial owners booking up the rooms that are appealing for renters - but a lot of it is also just the fact that demographics in the membership are shifting - more DINKs own DVC now, families are fine with studios because they don't need feel like they need a kitchen, etc.

Agree but for a different reason, popular times are popular with everyone and the Bw points available to rent don't change .

The only differentiation that makes BW SV more popular with commercial renters than other rooms is the low points as compared to rack rate. If that was leveled out they would have less profit margin.

But I doubt that the points sold by "punished" commercial renters would be sold to anyone other than BW fans at the current BW resale price. So in the end still the same number of people going after the room.

 

[lowlight]

We thought it’d be fun to talk about things that would actually help availability.

There are a lot of things that need fixing in DVC, but most of them aren’t possible. Seasons, point charts, views, 1BR point costs, over building of undesirable resorts that cause owners to use their points as SAP, the list goes on. Commercial and spec renting, however, is possible to fix and would do a ton of good to the “average owner”.

 

[muppets3d]

Agree but for a different reason, popular times are popular with everyone and the Bw points available to rent don't change .

The only differentiation that makes BW SV more popular with commercial renters than other rooms is the low points as compared to rack rate. If that was leveled out they would have less profit margin.

But I doubt that the points sold by "punished" commercial renters would be sold to anyone other than BW fans at the current BW resale price. So in the end still the same number of people going after the room.

Right but if renting were curbed, the new owners of those points wouldn't all be looking for standard view studios. Certainly many would but some would want other room types. Of course, if they're looking for 2 bedrooms that won't solve anything because all the 2-bedroom units at Boardwalk are lockoffs.

 

[muppets3d]

There are a lot of things that need fixing in DVC, but most of them aren’t possible. Seasons, point charts, views, 1BR point costs, over building of undesirable resorts that cause owners to use their points as SAP, the list goes on. Commercial and spec renting, however, is possible to fix and would do a ton of good to the “average owner”.

SAP owners aren't an issue as long as you are able to plan your vacations ahead and use your home resort priority. The benefit of SAP owners is the resort(s) they own at are often available for last minute (within 7 month) bookings. So if your plans change you can hopefully find something to swap into at a different resort.

 

[zavandor]

The only way to reduce demand for studios is to make them more expensive. Add points to the studio points charts and take points away from 1 bedroom charts. But people are saying it's not possible. What is certain is the blowback from members from making studios more expensive will be way bigger than renting is right now.

A better way would be for DVC to greatly reduce the cost of points so people can buy more and afford larger units.
Yeah, not going to happen.

Or build more studios, this DVC has been doing lately, changing the proportion of studios at more recent resort and the BPK conversion.
Also, I know the MF are a killer, but I think the CFW are a net positive.

Anyway, I don't see why I should pay more for studios when I can usually get them under 7 months at most resorts, only because some categories are difficult to get. Book garden/water views.

 

[tx911]

No at least in BW it would have no effect , spec renters rent popular days because they are popular ... they are popular with non owners who get points from rental sites and DVC members that own points.

If all the BW spec renters sold their points, the points would be sold at todays high market value which only makes them attractive to people who want to stay at BW (or add ons) these buyers would then be competing for the same popular nights. No one is buying BW now for SAP.

Its the point inequity, and low number of available units that creates the excess demand for SV

If I could eliminate commercial renting and improve all availability, I would do it. If I could eliminate commercial renting and improve some availability while leaving others unchanged, I would do that. If I could eliminate commercial renting to find ability unchanged, I would do that too (with apologies to Lincoln).

 

[Mouseforward]

Right but if renting were curbed, the new owners of those points wouldn't all be looking for standard view studios. Certainly many would but some would want other room types. Of course, if they're looking for 2 bedrooms that won't solve anything because all the 2-bedroom units at Boardwalk are lockoffs.

I think they would behave just like the rest of us so they would go for SV

 

[zavandor]

It was done with the treehouses. I thought they rolled it back in poly

Correct.
The first version of the 2020 point charts decreased points for bungalows and CCV cabins and increased the other units.

Note: in moving points between bungalows and studios DVC stated that there was an imbalance that needed correcting. And yet, they rolled it back and never done it again. This, in my opinion, proves they too think it's not allowed.

 

[Mouseforward]

There are a lot of things that need fixing in DVC, but most of them aren’t possible. Seasons, point charts, views, 1BR point costs, over building of undesirable resorts that cause owners to use their points as SAP, the list goes on. Commercial and spec renting, however, is possible to fix and would do a ton of good to the “average owner”.

All of the things you list are possible to fix ( probably the undesirable resorts is the hardest but add a lazy river to them and bingo)

But I see no reason that spec renting would have any significant effect unlike fixing the point charts.

 

[Mouseforward]

Correct.
The first version of the 2020 point charts decreased points for bungalows and CCV cabins and increased the other units.

Note: in doing so DVC stated that there was an imbalance that needed correcting. And yet, they rolled it back and never done it again. This, in my opinion, proves they too think it's not allowed.

Or they decided to build PIT so they could roll back an unpopular change.