DVC T &C Personal Use - Only Thread to Discuss.

[Sandisw]

I believe @Tatebeck covered this pretty well, but I think you understood my point backwards: when there is more interest in the parks (peak travel, new rides) Disney may not care as much about commercial renting because it can pack all its hotel rooms, even if 20% of DVC points are also competing for hotel guests. However now, with an uptick in construction, lull in new attractions, and the economy slowing, for every 100 “DVC renters” somewhere between 50-100 hotel rooms are either sitting totally empty or have to discount more aggressively to get filled.

I don’t want to tip Disney’s hand here, but they absolutely have a few ways to sort this kind of situation into “almost certainly spec rental” v “unlikely spec rental” (with some gray areas in the middle)— suffice to say that if you are doing it year after year, it’s less likely a coincidence.

Have you talked to a tax lawyer or accountant about this? I haven’t rented yet so I haven’t had to think about timeshare income specifically but I don’t think you can deduct ALL dues against the specific points you rented. Can’t think of any law that would permit it. Even a home office can only be deducted proportionately to its square footage of the house.

Hopefully nobody is coming here for business or tax advice, but there are a lot of takes here that could potentially get people in serious trouble.

I have rented twice to strangers and yes, the dues I paid for those points sold were deductible.

But, I obviously shouldn’t have even tied it to taxes because that wasn’t the point I was trying to maks when I said net 0…since I know you can’t deduct dues for points not rented.

Let me try again.

DVC could decide that this situation isnt activity that meets the standard of commercial purpose in their view…which is all that matters.

If I 300 points, and I rent 150…assuming I get double the dues, I simply end up having all my dues paid that year.

It is definitely possible DVC could decide that this is perfectly acceptable.

Whether they will? Who knows? But I do suspect the MMB program was done specifically to allow owners to trade their points for the APs so that DVC gets to rent those rooms, which takes them out of the open rental market.

I do think we all need to try to remember that when people are sharing their thoughts, it should be assumed they are talking in relation to the contract and their personal understanding of it and what they hope to see DVC to do.

 

[PlutoNotPlanet]

Most concerns from all parties (e.g., no availability for owners, Disney missing profit due to large-scale commercial renting) won’t be completely resolved.

One more perspective of a potential situation below, which might be a small win for most parties except those rent points from owners:

The by-point price get forced to increase. Demand of rental cools down a little. Disney gets back more direct booking. Commercial renters sell some contracts, reducing the points they rent but profit not reduced as much.

 

[Mouseforward]

Mine told me we could take the dues we have paid on the points we have rented

So the dues on banked or current points - you can not claim on dues you have not paid ( borrowed points)

Obviously you can not deduct dues you used for your vacation weeks.

There was some discussion on if the reserve section of dues is deducted, and the property tax amounts

 

[Sandisw]

Most concerns from all parties (e.g., no availability for owners, Disney missing profit due to large-scale commercial renting) won’t be completely resolved.

One more perspective of a potential situation below, which might be a small win for most parties except those rent points from owners:

The by-point price get forced to increase. Demand of rental cools down a little. Disney gets back more direct booking. Commercial renters sell some contracts, reducing the points they rent but profit not reduced as much.

The one thing that is a huge unknown is how much influence the hotel division would even have, given this is a deeded interest guided by a contract and FL condo and timeshare law.

Let’s not forget DVC had an offical commercial use policy and DVC has never confirmed one way or the other if that is still the guiding document.

They are not starting from scratch here and it’s hard to imagine for me that that document has not been part of the conversation.

If for no other reason then to be able to answer the questions owners will have if they believe new rules are more restrictive.

 

[Cyberc1978]

I’m in LA about to board a cruise ship.
So I fully anticipate chaos and all kinds of news.

Also - Someone forgot to tell California it’s summer…

Enjoy

 

[WilsonFlyer]

Can we please stop pretending that annual dues is the only cost of DVC points? What about the time value of money applied and amortized over time to cover the cost of the points themselves? Some of you folks are doing funny/easy math just so the numbers work out the way you want them to.

My points cost me a lot more per year than the cost of their dues alone.

 

[GoingSince1990]

Can we please stop pretending that annual dues is the only cost of DVC points? What about the time value of money applied and amortized over time to cover the cost of the points themselves? Some of you folks are doing funny/easy math just so the numbers work out the way you want them to.

My points cost me a lot more per year than the cost of their dues alone.

Anyone who claims that there is any kind of connection between whether something is "commercial" and whether or not it makes a profit is fundamentally wrong, in any case. Amazon started up as a corporation in 1994 but did not make a profit until 2001, yet it was clearly still in a "commercial" business for its first 7 years of operation despite consistently losing money during that period. Someone starting up a website called "Bob's DVC rentals" and listing thousands of spec reservations is clearly in violation of the "commercial" clause whether they make or lose money on it.

 

[Sandisw]

Anyone who claims that there is any kind of connection between whether something is "commercial" and whether or not it makes a profit is fundamentally wrong, in any case. Amazon started up as a corporation in 1994 but did not make a profit until 2001, yet it was clearly still in a "commercial" business for its first 7 years of operation despite consistently losing money during that period. Someone starting up a website called "Bob's DVC rentals" and listing thousands of spec reservations is clearly in violation of the "commercial" clause whether they make or lose money on it.

Of course that is an example of a business, profit aside, because they are renting in volume.

And we all agree fhat is using your membership for a commercial purpose.

But on the flip side, if an owner makes any level of profit, even if it is off just a few rentals, it doesn’t automatically mean that rises to the level to be considered commercial purposes membership.

 

[Mouseforward]

Can we please stop pretending that annual dues is the only cost of DVC points? What about the time value of money applied and amortized over time to cover the cost of the points themselves? Some of you folks are doing funny/easy math just so the numbers work out the way you want them to.

My points cost me a lot more per year than the cost of their dues alone.

How ? Even buying BC ( worst deal in WDW) right now would be about $8 a point.

 

[AstroBlasters]

Can we please stop pretending that annual dues is the only cost of DVC points? What about the time value of money applied and amortized over time to cover the cost of the points themselves? Some of you folks are doing funny/easy math just so the numbers work out the way you want them to.

My points cost me a lot more per year than the cost of their dues alone.

I’m not sure what on earth this has to do with renting or if Disney would consider something commercial renting.

 

[Sandisw]

Can we please stop pretending that annual dues is the only cost of DVC points? What about the time value of money applied and amortized over time to cover the cost of the points themselves? Some of you folks are doing funny/easy math just so the numbers work out the way you want them to.

My points cost me a lot more per year than the cost of their dues alone.

Thst is not how I am interpreting those posts.

It is about whether it would be reasonable for DVC to look at an owner who may be renting a few reservations a year, or even half thier points, as using the membership for commercial purpose when all it does, at most, is offset dues.