DVC T &C Personal Use - Only Thread to Discuss!

[tx911]

Do we actually know if people are using bots to rent rooms or is this an urban legend?

Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they ain't out to get me.

And I completely support that you and others
feel better when it’s another owner.

But, it’s not any more or less satisfying to me personally whether I lose to you, who will stay, or to an owner who decides to rent it.

If the renters are using bots, they have better odds than I do of booking a room. So I lose more often if not always. The odds are stacked against us.

 

[lowlight]

Talk about doings something that is explicitly forbidden by II, and has a history of biting those on both sides of the transaction...

Do this at your own risk!

https://tugbbs.com/forums/threads/i...ays-and-how-they-suspended-my-account.109740/

Oh I agree, it's risky for the seller, but as the renter I couldn't care less. When I say there are 100's for rent at any given time, it's probably an understatement.

 

[Mouseforward]

Do we actually know if people are using bots to rent rooms or is this an urban legend?

They exist, cause that’s how people do denial of service attacks. Whether or not they’re being used is all speculation, but if like people are saying on this thread, people are getting 100 value rooms at AK I would have to assume since it would take 50 people manually trying to do it every single day to achieve that number.

 

[Sandisw]

Yes the number of owners has increased.. but that is only because new resorts are built allowing for more people to become owners.

When I owned BLT, I had 3 50 point contracts…

I sold those to three different owners who were all first time owners. So, you know had two extra owners trying for BLT rooms but with the same number of points.

And that is what we have seen over the years with BWV especially…a lot of owners buying those smaller contracts for the sole purpose of RV.

So, while points stay set, if there are more owners with smaller contracts, more competition.

I mean it’s amazing to me you have people buying some of those resorts direct but they do it because they want it for specific stays.

 

[lowlight]

Do we actually know if people are using bots to rent rooms or is this an urban legend?

100% bots are booking dining reservations and experiences, lightning lanes, and, in the past, VQ. We know this because they offered these services for money. Those are low level bots with little ROI. For us to know if people are using bots to rent rooms, someone would have to show you the script/code, which is never going to happen, but it's hard to imagine there aren't scripts/bots being used by companies that make millions a year.

 

[Sandisw]

Oh I agree, it's risky for the seller, but as the renter I couldn't care less. When I say there are 100's for rent at any given time, it's probably an understatement.

If you arrive at the hotel and they find out you are a renter, they can…and have…canceled into the spot and renters left hanging.

 

[Mouseforward]

When I owned BLT, I had 3 50 point contracts…

I sold those to three different owners who were all first time owners. So, you know had two extra owners trying for BLT rooms but with the same number of points.

And that is what we have seen over the years with BWV especially…a lot of owners buying those smaller contracts for the sole purpose of RV.

So, while points stay set, if there are more owners with smaller contracts, more competition.

I mean it’s amazing to me you have people buying some of those resorts direct but they do it because they want it for specific stays.

I think restrictions played into this. I really can’t justify buying resale since the majority of my points are at Riviera. If you’re getting 50 points, I’d suck it up and go direct.

 

[lowlight]

If you arrive at the hotel and they find out you are a renter, they can…and have…canceled into the spot and renters left hanging.

I do understand that. Each time I've gotten a guest certificate and done remote check-in and never had an issue. For the prices I paid it was almost certainly worth the risk.

 

[DanCali]

Oh I agree, it's risky for the seller, but as the renter I couldn't care less. When I say there are 100's for rent at any given time, it's probably an understatement.

If II cancels the reservation, the renter will care too.

 

[Genie+]

Unless you win. Because some people will win. That's kind of an important part to not overlook.

Yes. I really don’t understand how people think removing spec resvn’s and commercial activity will make little if any difference to the ‘personal use’ membership experience.

It’s just like the DAS saga where for years people argued there was zero advantage to be had, it was impossible to be overused, no impact on wait times, no legal way to change it, etc. Round and round in circles. Meanwhile it just snowballed as more and more people joined in. Then Disney reined it back in. The move improved the experience of DAS users most in need, improved guest waits for rides, improved functionality of paid LL system. A little deja vu going on

 

[Sandisw]

I see you added this after. But this still doesn’t add up since the amount of owners at sold out resorts isn’t increasing by much, if at all. I understand 7mo availability being incredibly difficult now with so many more owners, but not 11mo.

I just posted about BLT but it has…a lot more BWV owners now then before because they bought the smaller contracts on the resale market.

And, there are still owners adding in direct for that same reason.

If someone owns BWV and decides to sell one of their contracts but not all, that creates a second owner when it used to be just one.

DVCs allowing new owners to buy with as little as 75 points years ago has contributed to it.

Of course, rentals are impacting things but many of DVCs own decisions have as well.

 

[Sandisw]

I think restrictions played into this. I really can’t justify buying resale since the majority of my points are at Riviera. If you’re getting 50 points, I’d suck it up and go direct.

Definitely!!! And the more smaller contracts there are, the more owners competing, without more points or inventory to match.

 

[speedyfishy]

If you aren't renting 500 of your 700 points you should be fine. But if you think you might be a target it's probably time to take an honest look and see if you are actually doing this for profit.

This year was the most I have rented, a bit less than half. I have made a profit with DVC. Is that my goal? No, but I probably wouldn’t have bought certain contracts if I couldn’t rent. For example, I bought a loaded SSR contract at $100pp and was able to book VGC studios at the 7 month mark that rented at $25pp. That made my SSR contract basically free, well $25pp. Now those points for me are “free” to use on stays I normally wouldn’t do. But there are years where I won’t use all of them, but others where I need all of them.

 

[VGCgroupie]

I just posted about BLT but it has…a lot more BWV owners now then before because they bought the smaller contracts on the resale market.

And, there are still owners adding in direct for that same reason.

If someone owns BWV and decides to sell one of their contracts but not all, that creates a second owner when it used to be just one.

DVCs allowing new owners to buy with as little as 75 points years ago has contributed to it.

Of course, rentals are impacting things but many of DVCs own decisions have as well.

Is there somewhere that shows an increase of owners at each resort?
I thought buying and splitting contracts was a pretty new thing people realized was better for resale purposes.
Couldn't this also be offset by people who buy multiple contracts? Example I own 3 at Aulani. 2 at VGC

 

[lowlight]

If II cancels the reservation, the renter will care too.

This inadvertently proves the point Brian Noble is making. Can you find me the latest instance of II/Disney actually canceling a certificated rental? I bet it was many years ago, but that memory of a few canceled reservations at check in still permeates everything around it. If DVC does this to the big rental outfits, they will be out of business in a fortnight.

 

[DanCali]

Yes. I really don’t understand how people think removing spec resvn’s and commercial activity will make little if any difference to the ‘personal use’ membership experience.

I can give you a different example - the Amex airline lounges that Centurion/Platinum cardholders get to use.

15-20 years ago you could be the sole cardholder, go in there with an entire family of 6, for unlimited time, and use it both for departures and arrivals.

Due to overcrowding (a genuine concern), they imposed the following restrictions over time:

• Bring up to 2 guests
• Use for departures only
• Use for up to 3 hours before flight
• Further decimating guest policy - no guests at all without extra payment per guest

Most cardholders were cheering after each restriction thinking the overcrowding would improve. "Bye Bye big families!". "Bye bye little children!". "Bye bye hungry/greedy arriving passengers!". YAY! But as the restrictions increased, more and more people got affected by them.

Meanwhile the fee for the Platinum card has doubled. Cardholders who want to maintain some prior benefits like family access also now have to pay for family members ($200/person) to get companion cards.

And guess what - the lounges are still overly crowded and frequently exceed capacity... So who gained from all this? Amex!

 

[Genie+]

So, while points stay set, if there are more owners with smaller contracts, more competition.

Yes and no. While more people may be competing, the amount of inventory they can sit on does not increase. Possibly your 3 new owners have since added on. Or at the time yours sold, other BWV contracts were sold as add-ons. But I think the point bigger than any of that is HOW people typically use their contracts, and the difference is striking between commercial and personal use. The first thing I did with my Direct VGF points was book SSR for my niece. Never would I have done that if the plan was to rent. I used my own BW points for BW View when standard was unavailable… I would’ve waited for standard if my intention was for-profit and not personal use. And it would’ve been much easier because again, I could snag anything, not just what works personally for my goals schedule. As long as it’s something high/higher demand, pretty easy to offload after the fact.

 

[VGCgroupie]

This year was the most I have rented, a bit less than half. I have made a profit with DVC. Is that my goal? No, but I probably wouldn’t have bought certain contracts if I couldn’t rent. For example, I bought a loaded SSR contract at $100pp and was able to book VGC studios at the 7 month mark that rented at $25pp. That made my SSR contract basically free, well $25pp. Now those points for me are “free” to use on stays I normally wouldn’t do. But there are years where I won’t use all of them, but others where I need all of them.

I possibly used the word profit in error. Selling your contract for profit is fine assuming you didn’t buy it rent all the points and then sell it for profit.

Renting some points to offset your initial cost is fine. Renting all those points every year to make money is not fine.

Commercial is clear. If you rent commercially I think you would know.

Renting every now and then and making some money back is fine.

 

[Sandisw]

Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they ain't out to get me.


If the renters are using bots, they have better odds than I do of booking a room. So I lose more often if not always. The odds are stacked against us.

If that bothers you, and you feel the odds are against you, than I get why you are frustrated

if I can book my home resort at 11 months, and have never been shut out if it, then I am extremely happy, and simply don’t feel the same as you that things are stacked against me.

Have I had to take PV at BWV, BLT, VGF and RIV from time to time at 11 months when I owned all those resorts? Yes

Have I been able to book RV at all of those at 11 months? Yes.

And, my satisfaction with DVC as it currently works doesn’t mean I don’t support DVC going after commercial renters.

It

 

[Genie+]

I can give you a different example - the Amex airline lounges that Centurion/Platinum cardholders get to use.

15 years ago you could be the sole cardholder, go in there with an entire family of 6, for unlimited time, and use it both for departures and arrivals.
Due to overcrowding (a genuine concern), they imposed the following restrictions over time:

• Bring up to 2 guests
• Use for departures only
• Use for up to 3 hours before flight
• Further decimating guest policy - no guests at all without extra payment per guest

Most cardholders were cheering after each restriction thinking the overcrowding would improve. "Bye Bye big families!". "Bye bye little children!". "Bye bye hungry/greedy arriving passengers!". YAY!

Meanwhile the fee for the Platinum card has doubled. Cardholders who want to maintain some prior benefits like family access also now have to pay for family members ($200/person) to get companion cards.

And guess what - the lounges are still overly crowded and frequently exceed capacity... So who gained from all this? Amex!

I don’t know enough about the lounge to comment. I have come across a few different articles citing a variety of things for their overall decline. It’s a perk though.