DVC T &C Personal Use - Only Thread to Discuss!

[tjkraz]

That is a completely different than if there were fewer renters the ability to get hard to book rooms every day will be easier.

If am losing out of a room right now in 2 seconds and with the commercial renters gone and now I lose it in 5 seconds, my experience has not gotten better.

I still lost.

Unless you win. Because some people will win. That's kind of an important part to not overlook.

 

[AstroBlasters]

Not sure if these comments are targeted at me since I said I rent some to help cover the cost. But to clarify, yes I can cover the dues myself on all the points I own and some years will use all 700 points. And yes, I can afford a $5,000 bill if someone trashes the room. But I do rent a lot to help subsidize the cost, it’s not a need, but something that makes financial sense for me. I don’t need multiple weekends in Bungalows every year, but one weekend every year is a nice treat. I own over $100,000 worth of DVC. When something costs that much money I consider it an asset. Can I afford to buy a car worth $100,000, yes, would I? No because it’s not an asset. Would I buy $100,000 worth of any other timeshare? Also no.

I have no interest in owning something that I spent tens of thousands of dollars on that isn’t a good investment. (I already sold a contract for an $8,000 profit) What made DVC different from a lot of timeshare companies, and the only reason why I considered it was because it can be a good investment. If I can’t rent or resale values start tanking with renters flooding the market I have no desire to own. 100k invested for 35 years until I’m retirement age should be over a million dollars. DVC worked well for us, but depending on how things play out we will probably unload more contracts in the future. We live 15 mins from WDW, and I was fine staying on site a few times a year because I got a good value renting out some points. If the value isn’t there we will sell and just keep Disneyland contracts.

I get where you are coming from, but just because something is expensive doesn’t make it an asset or an investment.

If your reason for owning DVC is mainly (not solely) to generate a return on investment via renting then it would probably be good to sell down to just what you think you will use plus a small cushion.

 

[Sykes]

The idea that a single owner controlling 10,000 points, doing it as their full-time job, acting solely for the purpose of maximizing their profit, using software and other resources not available to the general public, will act mostly the same as 100 different owners each with their own motivations, their own time commitments, and their own last-minute cancellation behavior, is completely nonsensical.

The concentrated points of commercial renters significantly skew the distribution curve of how many points are rented how far in advance. It's a safe bet that nearly 100% of their points are consistently booked precisely when the 7-month or 11-month window opens (+walking, etc.). For 100 independent owners, I'd bet that number of points that are booked precisely at the optimal 7-month or 11-month window is closer to 10% ... maaaaaybe 25% on the high end. A lot more is booked later, goes to breakage, etc.

Personally, I own a good chunk of points and have never booked when the 11-month window opens. I can rarely even nail down plans by the time the 7-month window opens. And I'm not unusual based on the casual conversations I've had with DVC members in real-world settings (i.e. not here).

 

[Cyberc1978]

And maybe why they make sure these new terms highlight not allowing others to use your log in?

Those highlights were also included in the old T&C.

Both in the 2023 T&C and those from 2018.

 

[MerlinandtheMouse]

Since you quoted me, Ill just say that I don’t rent and don’t care about resale value.

As I posted, losing a room to an owner going over an owner who decides to rent it doesn’t change my loss.

I simply choose to not to be upset about who I lose it too.

I understand and I appreciate your consistency, but you do care about the proper execution of our contracts. Nothing about what these sites are posting fall into the regulations or our contracts. It undermines those who have legitimate and reasonable reasons to rent their points.

But anyway, my point was specifically about saying people won’t have an easier time getting these hard to book rooms. It was easier before the rental sites came along. That’s just a fact repeated over and over. I just don’t know why everyone keeps negating that. Would things still be difficult at times? Yeah probably. But your chances definitely go up without the commercial renters snagging up multiple rooms on the same dates, all around the year, just to go and sell them with no intention of ever using them personally.

 

[Sandisw]

Unless you win. Because some people will win. That's kind of an important part to not overlook.

True. But if your chances of winning are still minimal, it’s still minimal.

And that’s doesn’t mean DVC should not stop commercial renters.

 

[Sandisw]

Those highlights were also included in the old T&C.

Both in the 2023 T&C and those from 2018.

Okay! At least with the new language with the check box, more owners have oribcbly actually read them!!

 

[Cyberc1978]

Okay! At least with the new language with the check box, more owners have oribcbly actually read them!!

This is the old TC

 

[MerlinandtheMouse]

And here is why it will be tough to go back to 2016….the number of owners has increased, including the number of owners who have smaller contracts.

I see you added this after. But this still doesn’t add up since the amount of owners at sold out resorts isn’t increasing by much, if at all. I understand 7mo availability being incredibly difficult now with so many more owners, but not 11mo.

 

[Mouseforward]

Again, the distinction is this:

Renter using 100% of points for targeted rentals of cheap studios vs same points in the hands of run-of-the-mill members how vacation across the entire calendar, booking different room sizes and views.

Rooms in hands of everyday owners > rooms in hands of profit-seeking renter

Yeah, I’m not buying it. I don’t think that the general public is significantly different from us. They go after Studios and two bedrooms just like we do. The one bedroom is just a bad deal on points .

So renters should actually work out for you since it leaves the one bedroom for you to use . You should be happy.

 

[Kingkonig]

I forget who suggested it (and I lost the quote I saved), but the idea for Disney to create their own brokerage would be a great idea. They’d probably have to price it at least *somewhat* competitively, maybe $1-2pp above what they allow you to “trade” for other items (cruises, tickets, etc), but they could then sell the points back to other members or to themselves to then rent it for cash.

I’d love the opportunity to uncap (or at least significantly raise the cap) of OTU points. Instead of 20/year, maybe have it up to 20% or 30% of your total contract? I dunno it’s just wishing at this point I don’t think there’s any reason to keep speculating until Disney gives us more information

 

[tx911]

Of course fewer renters means more owner occupied rooms.

That is a completely different than if there were fewer renters the ability to get hard to book rooms every day will be easier.

If am losing out of a room right now in 2 seconds and with the commercial renters gone and now I lose it in 5 seconds, my experience has not gotten better.

I still lost.

Yes, but if we assume that the renters have the technology to book the rooms faster, you at least will have a better chance of winning every so often.

And psychologically, it's more satisfying to know another owner got the room you lost as opposed to a renter.

 

[Brian Noble]

Exactly it's not hard to understand.

“It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!”
—Upton Sinclair

 

[speedyfishy]

I get where you are coming from, but just because something is expensive doesn’t make it an asset or an investment.

If your reason for owning DVC is mainly (not solely) to generate a return on investment via renting then it would probably be good to sell down to just what you think you will use plus a small cushion.

My plans are different every year. Next year I will be using all 700 points for 3-4 two bedrooms at Aulani. Taking the entire family. Only one will be in my name. Probably will put DH on the other reservation. We are also hoping to start our own family soon and will need larger accommodations in a few years. I don’t want to sell, but if there are years where I’m not doing a large family trip or don’t want multiple weekends on property I should be able to rent and protect my investment and I have for 7 years without any issues. I doubt these changes come after someone like me, but it’s hard to tell imo.

 

[VGCgroupie]

I see you added this after. But this still doesn’t add up since the amount of owners at sold out resorts isn’t increasing by much, if at all. I understand 7mo availability being incredibly difficult now with so many more owners, but not 11mo.

And here is why it will be tough to go back to 2016….the number of owners has increased, including the number of owners who have smaller contracts.

Yes the number of owners has increased.. but that is only because new resorts are built allowing for more people to become owners.

 

[Sandisw]

I understand and I appreciate your consistency, but you do care about the proper execution of our contracts. Nothing about what these sites are posting fall into the regulations or our contracts. It undermines those who have legitimate and reasonable reasons to rent their points.

But anyway, my point was specifically about saying people won’t have an easier time getting these hard to book rooms. It was easier before the rental sites came along. That’s just a fact repeated over and over. I just don’t know why everyone keeps negating that. Would things still be difficult at times? Yeah probably. But your chances definitely go up without the commercial renters snagging up multiple rooms on the same dates, all around the year, just to go and sell them with no intention of ever using them personally.

Collectively, yes, more rooms for owners to use.

But let’s use the extreme with AKV CL…5 studios or 2 bedrooms and 5 one bedrooms.

Even if you don’t have any commercial renters, only 5 AKV owners win each day out of how many that lose?

And, we know that the commercial renters don’t get them all.

I guess it’s a matter of how each of us views easier.

 

[VGCgroupie]

My plans are different every year. Next year I will be using all 700 points for 3-4 two bedrooms at Aulani. Taking the entire family. Only one will be in my name. Probably will put DH on the other reservation. We are also hoping to start our own family soon and will need larger accommodations in a few years. I don’t want to sell, but if there are years where I’m not doing a large family trip or don’t want multiple weekends on property I should be able to rent and protect my investment and I have for 7 years without any issues. I doubt these changes come after someone like me, but it’s hard to tell imo.

If you aren't renting 500 of your 700 points you should be fine. But if you think you might be a target it's probably time to take an honest look and see if you are actually doing this for profit.

 

[Mouseforward]

Yes, but if we assume that the renters have the technology to book the rooms faster, you at least will have a better chance of winning every so often.

And psychologically, it's more satisfying to know another owner got the room you lost as opposed to a renter.

This is the part that could be addressed possibly if we use the two factor authentication with our phones for each reservation?

 

[AstroBlasters]

Do we actually know if people are using bots to rent rooms or is this an urban legend?

 

[Sandisw]

Yes, but if we assume that the renters have the technology to book the rooms faster, you at least will have a better chance of winning every so often.

And psychologically, it's more satisfying to know another owner got the room you lost as opposed to a renter.

And I completely support that you and others
feel better when it’s another owner.

But, it’s not any more or less satisfying to me personally whether I lose to you, who will stay, or to an owner who decides to rent it.