DVC T &C Personal Use - Only Thread to Discuss!

[MB_01]

Has Disney ever taken action against any member for using their account in a commercial manner that you all know of?

 

[Kingkonig]

The amount of braindead content the "certified disney travel advisors" put on instagram is boggling. All for a measly 4% commission on a pop century reservation.

It really is funny. I’ve got a buddy who jumped on the “become a Disney specific travel agent!!” train a few years ago, because “if it’s fun to help people plan a vacation, I may as well get paid for it!”

Turns out they’ll really just certify anybody if you sit through a seminar and can answer a few basic questions. Maybe you have to pay a small fee? Either way I think he was actually upset with me when I advised him against doing it - travel agents are all about volume since it’s low margin, and Disney specifically is even harder since there’s a ton of travel agents who want to be “fun” and work with their friends and family for the Mouse. Few people go annually, and those that DO are likely to go as DVC members (or rent points, but then again that’s kind of a whole other part of this 40+ page thread).

 

[muppets3d]

Unless you are a commercial owner, it seems cracking down on commercial owners is generally favored. They are undercutting Disney’s resort booking revenue and negatively impacting the DVC Member experience. If you were a prospective buyer and learned it’s hard to get certain reservations because people are gaming the system for profit you’d feel like (and many uninformed buyers do) you’ve just been had.
One of the advantages to resort reservations vs DVC is that availability isn’t really an issue. It can be mind blowing for that factor to get worse after plunking down $30k.

What's really mind blowing for people is the very room they wanted to book but couldn't is being advertised on a broker's website for rent, when that shouldn't be allowed by the contract we all signed and agreed to.

All we want is for everyone to follow the rules of the program.

 

[Sandisw]

I have don't necessarily have an issue with commercial entities renting rooms, because Disney does it, etc.
But I think the commercial renters should have different rules to abide by when it comes to renting out points.

• No room hoarding for example.
• No reservation walking.
• Have a separate booking window, 9 months and 5 months for example.
• Make it so that they can only rent out points when they already have a possible renter.
• If you really wanted them to restrict them, they would have to call in to make reservations, lol

Many of those things are not legally allowed in the contract and DVC needs to at least attempt to follow the terms.

DVC has at least given us updated parameters and now we wait to see examples of those parameters once we get word that enticement has happened.

I am hoping this comes up next week at one of the condo meetings. I arrive on the 12th so missed it by two days.

 

[muppets3d]

Has Disney ever taken action against any member for using their account in a commercial manner that you all know of?

They cancelled some rental reservations about 9 months ago as I recall but I don't remember what the situation was or what the outcome of it was.

 

[matt_in_nh]

An unusual number of stripped contracts just hit the market from one broker.....

 

[Sandisw]

What's really mind blowing for people is the very room they wanted to book but couldn't is being advertised on a broker's website for rent, when that shouldn't be allowed by the contract we all signed and agreed to.

Let’s take the commercial renter out for a minute.

If an owner has to rent out their points because of a last minute emergency but never rented, and their points will expire , are you saying that owner should not be allowed to rent any room they were able to book with those distressed points?

 

[lowlight]

If you could rent points annually way cheaper than buying, then why wouldn't you? Plus, you're not tied into the long-term contract and retain more flexibility.

There is no math that makes DVC a better choice (direct, or resale) when you are getting rentals at $13/point and have home resort priority at any resort you want, which is why I sold after being frustrated by 11 month availability. If you don't mind SSR or OKW, you can even get them for much less than dues when people rent their II exchanges out. The deals I've gotten renting are great, and I've even gotten deals through Disney that beat rental prices at times. I'm sure that's going to change with the rental crackdown, but I kept enough points to keep my blue card so I'm not too concerned either way.

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

An unusual number of stripped contracts just hit the market from one broker.....

It begins.

 

[DanCali]

Then why aren't they ROFRing now?

Probably because they have certain profit targets and are balancing with demand. They may buy BLT at $100, but not $120. VGF has a higher demand for direct so maybe they buy that at $130, but nor $150. They also still have VDV, CFW, RIV, PVB and Aulani points to sell, so millions of points already in inventory. If they had no new resorts to sell, they'd be ROFRing a lot more, maybe at higher prices.

 

[Mai Ku Tiki]

In all this madness talk I honestly didnt even think about that... so hmm... yeah I am perplexed. I guess you have to check in order to book and then Disney can use that as a way to show violation of agreeing to terms? Hmmmm. I mean it doesnt effect me so I wont spend too much time thinking about it though.

Not sure what the check-box does (hopefully it just entered me in a lottery for lifetime APs )
But I just modified son & DIL address (they moved) on their 2 ressies. He is co-purchaser with me on deed but I happily handle bookings for all of us since we often travel together.
Anyway, the CHECK-BOX showed up for first time BOLD PRINT. And I had to acknowledge PERSONAL USE before it would accept address change modification...
PS...Then it said WAIT WHILE BOOKING IS CONFIRMED (It's been confirmed for months) & I was afraid I'd lose it but after a bit too long it reloaded as CONGRATS! BOOKING IS CONFIRMED! sheeesh....
(I'm still happy with the new policy & it seems they are pretty serious about it)

WAIT! OK so now I just got 2 emails RE-confirming both of their ressies -one for this fall & one for next spring. They kept same ressie #s ...

 

[davidhr]

Bad analogy. These changes will not cause suffering amongst 99 percent of the DVC user base.

You missed the point. I’m talking about not caring about the resale value.

I’ve said multiple times that the resale value is not at the top of my list of things that matter, but even if I don’t care about it, my contracts having zero value is something that has the potential of affecting me sooner or later.

So when someone says they’re ok with their contracts being valued at $0, I see it as they’re saying “I’m ok if these changes cause devaluation of what I own because the others doing things I don’t like will be having a worse time than me”.

 

[muppets3d]

Let’s take the commercial renter out for a minute.

If an owner has to rent out their points because of a last minute emergency but never rented, and their points will expire , are you saying that owner should not be allowed to rent any room they were able to book with those distressed points?

That's not what I'm saying. But I think you accidentally said out loud now what the intent of DVC's rental provision really is. It is really intended to be a rare feature of the product. Perhaps we should laminate this post?

 

[muppets3d]

Probably because they have certain profit targets and are balancing with demand. They may buy BLT at $100, but not $120. VGF has a higher demand for direct so maybe they buy that at $130, but nor $150. They also still have VDV, CFW, RIV, PVB and Aulani points to sell, so millions of points already in inventory. If they had no new resorts to sell, they'd be ROFRing a lot more, maybe at higher prices.

Right, the point is they aren't ROFRing to keep the price integrity of the resale market up because they don't care about resale.

 

[tjkraz]

My head just really can’t get around this that people don’t understand the concept of there’s X points sold and that number doesn’t change based on who’s booking the points.

Everyone still gonna want the cheap studio at that popular time.

You keep speaking in absolutes like this, and it's just not correct. There are thousands and thousands of owners who bought points for One Bedroom, Two Bedroom and Grand Villa accommodations. Not just people who bought 20-30 years ago...people today buying Riviera and Poly points.

I said this before and I'll say it again....sharing a bedroom with my kids is not my idea of a vacation. The vast majority of my points have been used for a One Bedroom and larger. I choose 7 nights in a 1B over 14 nights in a studio ALL THE TIME. And there are many other owners who do the same. Maybe you and your circle of friends only use points for Studios. That's fine. There are others out feel differently. Trust me.

DVC has shifted how they build in recent years, in response to changing preferences. But right now at WDW--even with studio-heavy Poly and Big Pine Key--only of all DVC villas 43% are Studios. To imply that members occupying the other 57% are pissed-off that they couldn't book a studio is just flat out wrong.

I also heard a good theory online as to why Disney is now taking this seriously after 20 years. The theory is that it is now cheaper to rent points at any of the sold out resorts, then it is to buy a contract and pay maintenance. So now rentals are cutting into DVC sales.

That's either misleading or outright false.

Renting has always had a lower cash outlay, that much is true. However owning pays much greater dividends in the long run. The numbers have changed a bit over the years, but let's not pretend that the points owners are the ones taking the hit financially. Renting annually for $25 per point (eventually $30, then $35) is going to cost a LOT more in the long run than buying at $200 per point and getting 40 years of trips for just dues.

 

[muppets3d]

You keep speaking in absolutes like this, and it's just not correct. There are thousands and thousands of owners who bought points for One Bedroom, Two Bedroom and Grand Villa accommodations. Not just people who bought 20-30 years ago...people today buying Riviera and Poly points.

I said this before and I'll say it again....sharing a bedroom with my kids is not my idea of a vacation. The vast majority of my points have been used for a One Bedroom and larger. I choose 7 nights in a 1B over 14 nights in a studio ALL THE TIME. And there are many other owners who do the same.

DVC has shifted how they build in recent years, in response to changing preferences. But right now at WDW--even with studio-heavy Poly and Big Pine Key--only of all DVC villas 43% are Studios. To imply that members occupying the other 57% are pissed-off that they couldn't book a studio is just flat out wrong.


That's either misleading or outright false.

Renting has always had a lower cash outlay, that much is true. However owning pays much greater dividends in the long run. The numbers have changed a bit over the years, but let's not pretend that the points owners are the ones taking the hit financially. Renting annually for $25 per point (eventually $30, then $35) is going to cost a LOT more in the long run than buying at $200 per point and getting 40 years of trips for just dues.

The dues go up too...

 

[Mouseforward]

You keep speaking in absolutes like this, and it's just not correct. There are thousands and thousands of owners who bought points for One Bedroom, Two Bedroom and Grand Villa accommodations. Not just people who bought 20-30 years ago...people today buying Riviera and Poly points.

I said this before and I'll say it again....sharing a bedroom with my kids is not my idea of a vacation. The vast majority of my points have been used for a One Bedroom and larger. I choose 7 nights in a 1B over 14 nights in a studio ALL THE TIME. And there are many other owners who do the same. Maybe you and your circle of friends only use points for Studios. That's fine. There are others out feel differently. Trust me.

DVC has shifted how they build in recent years, in response to changing preferences. But right now at WDW--even with studio-heavy Poly and Big Pine Key--only of all DVC villas 43% are Studios. To imply that members occupying the other 57% are pissed-off that they couldn't book a studio is just flat out wrong.


That's either misleading or outright false.

Renting has always had a lower cash outlay, that much is true. However owning pays much greater dividends in the long run. The numbers have changed a bit over the years, but let's not pretend that the points owners are the ones taking the hit financially. Renting annually for $25 per point (eventually $30, then $35) is going to cost a LOT more in the long run than buying at $200 per point and getting 40 years of trips for just dues.

Your gaslighting again renting point goes for $16-$20 -

 

[tjkraz]

The dues go up too...

So will the cost of the rental. Historically at a similar rate. If you're suggesting that renting will cost less than owning in the long run, feel free to share specific projections to back it up.

If not, what are we doing here?

 

[tjkraz]

Your gaslighting again renting point goes for $16-$20 -

Please, share specifics on how renting will be cheaper over the next 40 years rather than buying Riviera or Poly points.

 

[xdan0920]

Ok, it’s important to know who is advocating for solutions that would burn the whole system down just so that they can get what they want vs what is good for the overall membership.

I don’t view it as bringing the system down. Resales are not part of the system.