DVC T &C Personal Use - Only Thread to Discuss!

[VGCgroupie]

I’ve been having serious talks with my wife about it. We fell in love and I’ve never been more happy with a vacation. My only 2 problems are:
To save up enough to buy without finance we’d have to not take vacations for a few years. My son will be 11 this summer and I feel like we will miss some great trips if we skip out starting now
And 2: we’d love to use the points else where at 7 months now and then but it seems insanely hard to get a Disneyland hotel at 7 months in the time we would go. I’m still doing more research though hahha

You wouldn't be able to to Disneyland hotel w/ Aulani resale, but you can Grand CA. I would take the amount of points you rented and just give the resale market a look for that contract amount and then deduct 10-15% off the price. Compare that to how much you spent on your rental. You will be surprised.

 

[pianomanzano]

I've brought this up here in the past on these boards before, but what do we think about a guest certificate system? Absent any further or more stringent efforts from DVC to curb commercial renters, I would think an aggressively priced guest certificate system--say, 2 free guest certificates per UY for when the member or associates are not on the reservation, then priced at $100 and progressively increasing for each additional guest certificate--could discourage commercial renting.

If the current rules/structures make it difficult to curb commercial renting, then let the market decide. Once the 4th+ guest certificate comes in at say $400, it will be difficult for commercial owners to simply pass those costs along to the renter. The delta between rack rates and DVC rentals are getting tighter as it is with AP/locals/disney+/[insert promo] discounts, so something like this could effectively kill commercial renting without resorting to potentially endless legal battles. And I wouldn't mind if such guest certificate fees be treated similar to breakage income as a revenue component on the dues statement (but who are we kidding, we know DVC will gladly pocket that extra money).

I'm sure that implementing such a system would require some rules changes, but other timeshare systems implement guest certificate systems and seem to enforce "no rentals" policies better than DVC. I know there are detractors to such a system because they often gift out stays to friends and family, but perhaps if you're giving out more than two reservations a year, maybe consider adding them as associate members.

 

[atthebeachclub]

100% this is personal use and what the contract intended to be allowed. You didnt post a sign and in your workplace advertising cheap Disney vacations and buy and buy more and more points to keep making reservations because you found that everyone wants one and you can make a buck on it too.

I agree here.

But the second scenario you mention is interesting too: literally every friend I have in my whole town, I also work with (we are practically a “company town”; one employer employs over one third of residents here). I suspect it is this way for a lot of adults who don’t live where they grew up. That personal vs commercial line starts getting grey and blurry pretty fast.

I suspect if you use most of your points yourself or for direct family, you stay in the good graces of the system. It’s a good reason to not go overboard with point purchases for short term needs though (and a reason I am a one time use point proponent).

 

[AstroBlasters]

One nice thing about having my mother and MIL as "Associates" is that when we travel with them (every other year or so we do a trip just for them--our family's original Disney fans), and the MS agent on the phone asks who is traveling, it's easy to say "everyone on the membership." That voids having to give addresses, phone numbers, or spelling out names. MS can see my name (purchaser), DH (co-purchaser), and the two moms and put everyone in.

It does also mean they could go in a book/change reservations on their own without letting you know first…. So there is some level of risk to it depending on one’s family situation.

 

[VGCgroupie]

I agree here.

But the second scenario you mention is interesting too: literally every friend I have in my whole town, I also work with (we are a “company town”). I suspect it is this way for a lot of adults who don’t live where they grew up. That personal vs commercial line starts getting grey and blurry pretty fast.

I suspect if you use most of your points yourself or for direct family, you stay in the good graces of the system. It’s a good reason to not go overboard with point purchases for short term needs though (and a reason I am a one time use point proponent).

When you are too nice don't tell friends you own a timeshare especially a Disney timeshare.

 

[AstroBlasters]

I've brought this up here in the past on these boards before, but what do we think about a guest certificate system? Absent any further or more stringent efforts from DVC to curb commercial renters, I would think an aggressively priced guest certificate system--say, 2 free guest certificates per UY for when the member or associates are not on the reservation, then priced at $100 and progressively increasing for each additional guest certificate--could discourage commercial renting.

If the current rules/structures make it difficult to curb commercial renting, then let the market decide. Once the 4th+ guest certificate comes in at say $400, it will be difficult for commercial owners to simply pass those costs along to the renter. The delta between rack rates and DVC rentals are getting tighter as it is with AP/locals/disney+/[insert promo] discounts, so something like this could effectively kill commercial renting without resorting to potentially endless legal battles. And I wouldn't mind if such guest certificate fees be treated similar to breakage income as a revenue component on the dues statement (but who are we kidding, we know DVC will gladly pocket that extra money).

I'm sure that implementing such a system would require some rules changes, but other timeshare systems implement guest certificate systems and seem to enforce "no rentals" policies better than DVC. I know there are detractors to such a system because they often gift out stays to friends and family, but perhaps if you're giving out more than two reservations a year, maybe consider adding them as associate members.

I think it would push out the average owner and be a “cost of business” for real commercial renters.

No need to make everything more complex.

 

[VGCgroupie]

It does also mean they could go in a book/change reservations on their own without letting you know first…. So there is some level of risk to it depending on one’s family situation.

So if Im too scared to give my daughter access to my fuel points at the grocery store maybe I shouldn't add her as an associate?

Joking she knows not to F w/ my fuel points.

 

[muppets3d]

And before anyone else jumps in…I see no scenario where DVC is going to go after someone whose profit is the cost of dues.

They want the big time players who own for the sole purpose of renting and they pretty much said that.

Who is renting out AKL points for $9 or whatever the current rate is? Everyone I see on this site's rental board is at $17 or more per point, substantially higher than the cost of dues. How is that not for profit

 

[GrimGrinningGuy]

You wouldn't be able to to Disneyland hotel w/ Aulani resale, but you can Grand CA. I would take the amount of points you rented and just give the resale market a look for that contract amount and then deduct 10-15% off the price. Compare that to how much you spent on your rental. You will be surprised.

Yeah I think I used 160 ish points for a week pool view. Around $4300 or so. That would pay for a big chunk of owning plus if I rent again.
I forgot can’t use the points for DL hotel, grand cal seems super hard to get at 7 months with so little rooms though. Hmm

I wonder if I’m better off buying like an 80 point contract and banking every other year and going every 2 years

 

[PlutoNotPlanet]

By the way the POS is written and that they include the word leadeee when defining personal use, renting is considered personal use.

So, renting some reservations with your DVC is still considered personal use in the context of your contract.

Its the level of renting that changes it from personal use to commercial.

I like what's being said here. But due to the fact that it's impossible to get a consensus on what is "personal use", I will discuss whether Disney/DVD hate renting?.

I would say absolutely not. Because otherwise they will be targeting the rental platforms rather than the big commercial renters. Both members and non-members can be renting points because of the availability or good price. But the point is that you won't be able to count on that.
Even if it's purely due to price, because you are aware of DVC rental, you are more willing to go because it's more affordable. Then, you found it would work for you financial and you become an owner. Or you found it to be too much work or too much uncertainty, you book cash stays or become an owner.
The problem comes when there are so many options that people no longer need to consider cash stays or becoming an owner, and that hurts Disney's business. Also, existing owners are very frustrated because they are not able to use their points even at their home resorts. So, they decided it is time to correct the abuse of renting somehow to a certain level.

 

[VGCgroupie]

Yeah I think I used 160 ish points for a week pool view. Around $4300 or so. That would pay for a big chunk of owning plus if I rent again.
I forgot can’t use the points for DL hotel, grand cal seems super hard to get at 7 months with so little rooms though. Hmm

I wonder if I’m better off buying like an 80 point contract and banking every other year and going every 2 years

If you can swing 160 I would do that. Hopefully VGC will be a tad bit easier to get with this new rental crackdown Not everyone agrees with me on that though. Feel free to DM me of you have any questions about buying Aulani, no specific contract talk of course, but if you just want advice.

 

[Cfabar1]

If I had an algorithm and AI, I would have a report of all memberships where more than 50% of points were used on reservations where an owner is not on the reservation and START there.

I would then set parameters to put memberships owned by LLC’s under an advanced level of scrutiny.

Exactly… let’s be clear… DVC is going to pick some targets, and aggressively pursue them in hopes that word gets out…

They are not going to be interested in litigating this and spending time and money on trivial cases of the 200 points owner who one year rented out 40 points to their nephew, nor are they likely to even want to go after the person who rented all their points once every three years…

I wonder how the Rental Brokers will re-word their contracts to protect themselves and/or the owners of the points from Renters who have a rental canceled by DVC through no fault of their own. I'm guessing a few lawyers will be involved in the rewrite of these contracts.

I wonder how that is likely to to be impacted…

It does also mean they could go in a book/change reservations on their own without letting you know first…. So there is some level of risk to it depending on one’s family situation.

I suspect the use case is more when parents want their adult children to “take care of it”, but I agree… I’m not interested in setting up associate members….

 

[DougEMG]

With all due respect I can see why you would want a specific number. If I owned as much and rented as much as you I would also want a number

DVC in the past has given a specific number and I was more than happy to follow their rules and live within that number. I view it now as them changing the rules mid game, but not saying what the rules actually are.

So will I be impacted by this, maybe? No way to say exactly. Will someone who rents out 5 30 point reservations one year because they can't use their 150 point contract be impacted, maybe, no way to say exactly.

 

[atthebeachclub]

Who is renting out AKL points for $9 or whatever the current rate is? Everyone I see on this site's rental board is at $17 or more per point, substantially higher than the cost of dues. How is that not for profit

If you were renting for your dues only, you would be incurring a loss. You should (my personal opinion) never rent for less than it cost you for each point (and obviously there is a buy in cost, beyond your dues). Otherwise you’re just subsiding others’ vacations. If you are at that point, you should use the points yourself or sell, unless you will have a big change in circumstances soon and be able to use the points again yourself shortly.

 

[AstroBlasters]

Who is renting out AKL points for $9 or whatever the current rate is? Everyone I see on this site's rental board is at $17 or more per point, substantially higher than the cost of dues. How is that not for profit

It’s total dues on all points for the membership.

 

[muppets3d]

DVC in the past has given a specific number and I was more than happy to follow their rules and live within that number. I view it now as them changing the rules mid game, but not saying what the rules actually are.

So will I be impacted by this, maybe? No way to say exactly. Will someone who rents out 5 30 point reservations one year because they can't use their 150 point contract be impacted, maybe, no way to say exactly.

I would say that anyone who routinely rents out hundreds of points a year has reason to be concerned.

 

[Sandisw]

I was thinking about the extended family members, that you may not want to have access to the points in your contract making reservations that you didn't authorize.

And to add, DVC limited the number of associates years ago to prefer brokers from being on too many to make reservations for rentals.

 

[DougEMG]

I have never seen a box to check that a guest is not a DVC member either.

That use to be on the web site a while back and then it disappeared. Can't remember the exact time this happened.

 

[Sandisw]

I wouldn't fully ignore those who have two buckets of points: those they use exclusively for their own reservations, and those that they use to rent out. Just because you have 1,000 points that you use yourself, year in and year out, doesn't mean that the other 1,000 points you rent out year after year don't represent a pattern of commercial renting. There were several members on this forum, found at or near the top of the 1,000-point club who stated publicly that they were purchasing points on a one-to-one basis (one point to rent for every point purchased for their own use). For a couple of those folks, that rental point pool was well over 1,000 and possibly reaching 2,000.

They could decide to monitor that. But the point I was making is they also may choose not to do it.

All we know is that they are watching and only an owner knows whether they feel what they are doing Prompts action by DVC.

 

[pianomanzano]

And to add, DVC limited the number of associates years ago to prefer brokers from being on too many to make reservations for rentals.

Not that planDisney responses are gospel, but this post says otherwise (pasted relevant info below).

"A Membership can have up to five Additional Purchasers in addition to the original Purchaser, while there is no limit to the number of Associate Members you can add. An Associate Member must be 18 years of age or older and can make reservations using Vacation Points."