DVC T &C Personal Use - Only Thread to Discuss!

[VGCgroupie]

So what do people think this will do for resale inventory and prices. Dramatic, minor or not decipherable? I think it will have a moderate impact reducing resale. But it depends on how many commercial entities there are and how strict they enforce the new policy.

I think it will have an impact on resale for certain resorts 100% I own one of those resorts, soon to be 2. I am willing to sacrifice a bit of the value of my contracts to get this commercial renting monster under control.

If Disney starts posting on non-Disney owned websites and message boards about large numbers of points available for rental at a rate significantly below what someone calling Disney directly would pay, then yes, that would be inconsistent with DVC policy.

Renting for compensation is forbidden only if it indicates a pattern of commercial behavior. Yes, if DVC wanted to block all rentals, they could have forbid renting points from the start. They didn’t.

As many posts have said, there is a difference between renting occasionally when you can’t use all of your points and renting frequently with making money as the goal. If you rent occasionally, you can charge for the rental without running a business with your points.

Sure, many people renting as a commercial enterprise will still check the box for personal use. But if DVC then points out that the owner never or rarely books rooms for themself or for people they have travelled with before or whom other people they’ve booked for have travelled with before, it will be difficult to justify as personal use a lot of reservations for a lot of different people.

I haven't seen you post much around here but your 2 comments are one of the best I have seen. Logical, rational, sensical.

I'll fall back on the verbiage Disney uses.

The opposites of "frequent" and "regular" are "infrequent" and "random".

So, if you are renting points infrequently and randomly, I think you can reasonably assume you are safe.

100%

So here’s a scenario: your friends wants to go to Disney and use your timeshare. Because you are all gainfully employed, they offer to pay you for its use. You give them a reasonable deal as those points are valuable to you, too, but it’s not free, and you may even make back a small percent on your original DVC investment.

Is this personal use?

100% this is personal use and what the contract intended to be allowed. You didnt post a sign and in your workplace advertising cheap Disney vacations and buy and buy more and more points to keep making reservations because you found that everyone wants one and you can make a buck on it too.

Man, we just had an AMAZING time at Aulani renting points. Saved a fortune and got free parking and we are already planning to go back 2027. I hope this doesnt screw up our plans

No this will not. There will still be people who need to rent some of their points out occasionally the way the rules were written for.

 

[TheThousandthSoul]

You also must keep into consideration the legal structure of DVC. Had they wanted to fully prohibit rental, the structure would have been different (i.e. not selling deeded real estate).

 

[VGCgroupie]

I am not a fan of the changes. I agree that walking and commercial renting by LLC's has gotten way out of hand but this is a ridiculous overreach filled with ambiguity. Disney has given themselves the ability, with no recourse, to call whatever they want and whenever they want commercial renting. I called DVC today and essentially they told me as long as we're renting to family and friends and using the majority of our points each year then we would be ok. This is infuriating to me because this particular year we have rented all our points and likely will have to do so for the next 3 years. Regardless of your political leanings, we're Canadian and our government has advised us to exercise caution travelling to the USA. Many other countries have done the same.

Our family and friends are majority Canadian as well and dont want to travel either. So of course I am going to put my points up for rent via an intermediary and rent to some unknown family or individual.

How long have you owned your contract? If you just bought it and are going to rent it for 4 years then yes this is not for personal use regardless of your reasons behind it. If you have owned to for many years and this is a sudden need to stop going for 4 years then that is a different story. Would you have to explain that to DVD? I dont know.

 

[VGCgroupie]

I think the change that I am concerned about is that it seems they intend to actually enforce it now and from my phone call it seems that I have to use a majority of my past and present reservations and should be renting only to family and friends.

I know Sandi is of the opinion they won't come after people like me, but I also dont want to chance it neither.

Then maybe it's best to sell if you are no longer happy with your product. If you wont be using it for 4 years and you will be scared for 4 whole years about renting then what is the point of keeping it?

 

[VGCgroupie]

Bingo.

If it doesn’t rise to the level of “commercial” then it falls under “personal use”.

Everyone who states that “IMO renting isn’t for personal use” is ignoring the fact that we are absolutely allowed to rent out points as part of our deeded real estate contracts.

Commercial is establishing a pattern that is “for profit”.

Even if you rent out a % of your points every year, it has to be with enough frequency and volume to where Disney could determine that your primary motive is profit and not personal use.

If I had an algorithm and AI, I would have a report of all memberships where more than 50% of points were used on reservations where an owner is not on the reservation and START there.

I would then set parameters to put memberships owned by LLC’s under an advanced level of scrutiny.

Please stop making so much sense. It doesnt allow for mass paranoia..

I hope the commercial renters enjoy losing thousands of dollars through attorney fees on a frivolous lawsuit.

Just when I thought I couldn't like your comments today any more than I already did.

 

[GrimGrinningGuy]

No this will not. There will still be people who need to rent some of their points out occasionally the way the rules were written for.

But will I need to book my trip with just using this forum/person to person? I used DVC rental store and I liked making payments and the “safety” of a company to back me up. But if I rent using them or David’s or whoever what if the person they connect me with has done 7 rentals that year already? Is it a risk to be flagged?

 

[VGCgroupie]

FYI, there is already a way to add family members who frequently use one's membership. It's called "Associate." We've done this for my mother who lives in So. FL, since we frequently get a rooms when she wants to go to WDW for a day/quick weekend. From DVC FAQ:

"Associate"
An Associate is a person named by the Purchaser or Purchasers who is only authorized to make reservations using the Disney Vacation Club Member's Home Resort Vacation Points. Associates do not receive Membership Cards and are not entitled to the benefits and privileges that are available to a Disney Vacation Club Member. An Associate must be 18 years of age or older.

Thank you for bringing a very real solution to the table

 

[Brian Noble]

When I look at the chart below (Marriott Vacations over the past 5 years compared to the aggregate US market), I don't think pad policy that destroys resale value doesn't matter. It's probably not just one thing, but the culmination of many things over the years that led to this

[Emphasis added]: And that's the thing. It's definitley not policy that destroys resale value by itself, because Wyndham's resale value is even farther in the toilet, and their stock price is fine. It diverged a bit prior to Liberation Day, but has closed the gap nicely.

https://www.alphaspread.com/comparison/nyse/tnl/vs/indx/gspc

The stock price is a confluence of many many things, but it does not appear to be explained primarily by resale value collapse. If it was, Wyndham would look worse. It is tempting to look at stock prices, correlate with some feature that is key to a particuar narrative, and draw a straight line. It's also usually wrong.

 

[VGCgroupie]

But will I need to book my trip with just using this forum/person to person? I used DVC rental store and I liked making payments and the “safety” of a company to back me up. But if I rent using them or David’s or whoever what if the person they connect me with has done 7 rentals that year already? Is it a risk to be flagged?

No you will still Davids or Dvc rental store. Typically the people who use those platforms, myself included, are using to rent out very infrequently excess points they wont be using. This is the way the contract was intended to be used. They are going after people who own a ton a of points with the sole intent of renting them. Not the member that says ... "oh no Im going to have to skip Halloweeen this year so now I will have some extra points, I should get with Davids so those points dont go to waste"

 

[Brian Noble]

I agree they need to pick some kind of number. This is just too vague and leaves it open to them making arbitrary and inconsistent decisions.

I've said this before, but the thread is moving quickly so it probably bears repeating:

This is not going to happen. Indeed, the vague nature is precisley the point. Giving clear guidance gives the pros the lines wtihin which they need to operate, and many still will. The only way this works (where "works" is "significantly curtails the rental market") is through a healthy does of FUD, primarly on the demand side, but for the suppliers too.

 

[Duckbug.Ducktales]

Thank you for bringing a very real solution to the table

One nice thing about having my mother and MIL as "Associates" is that when we travel with them (every other year or so we do a trip just for them--our family's original Disney fans), and the MS agent on the phone asks who is traveling, it's easy to say "everyone on the membership." That voids having to give addresses, phone numbers, or spelling out names. MS can see my name (purchaser), DH (co-purchaser), and the two moms and put everyone in.

 

[Matty B13]

I wonder how the Rental Brokers will re-word their contracts to protect themselves and/or the owners of the points from Renters who have a rental canceled by DVC through no fault of their own. I'm guessing a few lawyers will be involved in the rewrite of these contracts.

 

[VGCgroupie]

One nice thing about having my mother and MIL as "Associates" is that when we travel with them (every other year or so we do a trip just for them--our family's original Disney fans), and the MS agent on the phone asks who is traveling, it's easy to say "everyone on the membership." That voids having to give addresses, phone numbers, or spelling out names. MS can see my name (purchaser), DH (co-purchaser), and the two moms and put everyone in.

Didnt think I would learn anything in this post but I did. Thank you. We travel with my daughter and her husband often, it will be so nice to just have them all stored in the system for MS.

 

[PlutoNotPlanet]

I didn't know I would miss a party when I got on my flight yesterday afternoon. Took me quite a while to catch up lol.

As someone frequently feels itchy about adding more points, I would not dream about commercial renters suddenly dumping contracts and I can find lots of deals. Commercial renters not only make money by renting points, but also by buy-strip-sell, aka "flipping". Although they bought low, they do not necessarily sell low, and they definitely won't sell for loss. They have more than two years even if they have to sell all.

In business, the motivation is most of time to make money. What is DVD interested in? Sell more direct points. What is Disney interested in? Bring people to the park and spend.
Why cracking down commercial renting? Because current owners are unhappy and can sell. Also because it might have affect direct cash booking.
They probably won't shut down renting entirely because rental does allow some to come and spend that otherwise won't. There are dozens of things they can do. But only a few can be on the priority list.

 

[Cyberc1978]

I am pretty sure the POS states we are able to rent, but not commercially.

The definition of "rent" is to pay someone for the use of (something, typically property, land, or a car). If you were just allowing a friend to go in your place with no money exchanged it would be a gift, not a rental.

That’s the issue. DVC gets to decide what is and what isn’t renting.

DVC can only see that the owner is not on the reservation. If you have 2 reservations in your name, 5 in your family and 7 rentals. Nothing stops DVC from says all 12 is rentals.

They can decide that frequent and regular looks different for a 200 point owner vs a 4000 point owner.

shouldn’t all owners regardless of type be treated equally? Ie if a 200 points owner is allowed to rent all points but the 4000 points owner is not, then owners aren’t equal.

And before anyone else jumps in…I see no scenario where DVC is going to go after someone whose profit is the cost of dues.

They want the big time players who own for the sole purpose of renting and they pretty much said that.

I think what most are worried about is that DVC in the beginning is targeting ie large points owners with 4.000 points most are fine with that. Then gradually lowering the bar to 1.000 points and then to 500 and so on. Where does it stop?

 

[VGCgroupie]

I agree they need to pick some kind of number. This is just too vague and leaves it open to them making arbitrary and inconsistent decisions.

With all due respect I can see why you would want a specific number. If I owned as much and rented as much as you I would also want a number

 

[VGCgroupie]

But will I need to book my trip with just using this forum/person to person? I used DVC rental store and I liked making payments and the “safety” of a company to back me up. But if I rent using them or David’s or whoever what if the person they connect me with has done 7 rentals that year already? Is it a risk to be flagged?

I also wanted to add I know you love Aulani as much as I do, you should strongly consider purchasing if you are able to. Take your time and bid aggressively you can likely get a great deal and over time save yourself a ton of money.

 

[PlutoNotPlanet]

This is not going to happen. Indeed, the vague nature is precisley the point. Giving clear guidance gives the pros the lines wtihin which they need to operate, and many still will.

This should be repeated every other pages.

if a 200 points owner is allowed to rent all points but the 4000 points owner is not, then owners aren’t equal.

Well, it's not equal. But Disney, the business, might care more about the impact. To certain extend, the more point being rented, the less cash booking income (across Disney resorts, not just DVC). Moreover, it could affect the pricing. Disney prefers more to own in order to get the privileges.

 

[GrimGrinningGuy]

I also wanted to add I know you love Aulani as much as I do, you should strongly consider purchasing if you are able to. Take your time and bid aggressively you can likely get a great deal and over time save yourself a ton of money.

I’ve been having serious talks with my wife about it. We fell in love and I’ve never been more happy with a vacation. My only 2 problems are:
To save up enough to buy without finance we’d have to not take vacations for a few years. My son will be 11 this summer and I feel like we will miss some great trips if we skip out starting now
And 2: we’d love to use the points else where at 7 months now and then but it seems insanely hard to get a Disneyland hotel at 7 months in the time we would go. I’m still doing more research though hahha

 

[DanCali]

Regardless of your political leanings, we're Canadian and our government has advised us to exercise caution travelling to the USA. Many other countries have done the same.

You make it sound like this is is a new thing. What exactly has changed in Canadian govt advisory in 2025?

I don't see anything new or unusual when I look here:

https://travel.gc.ca/destinations/united-states

(and yes, I get that certain rhetoric can turn off individual people and cause them to travel elsewhere - but what has changed with government advisory?)