DVC T &C Personal Use - Only Thread to Discuss!

[Kingkonig]

SoMe has a lot of threads about owners claiming they will sue Disney if they cancel any of their reservations.
Curious to see when or IF that happens.

My assumption is the regular John Doe like everyone here wouldn’t bother but maybe the big brokers do? Afterall it’s not pennies they have to say goodbye to.

I mean anyone can sue anyone else for any reason!

But you have to prove standing and you have to prove you’re correct. Proving standing against Disney would involve claiming you’re losing profit, which would make it harder to justify that you’re not a commercial renter.

 

[AstroBlasters]

My recollection is that the owners were left holding the bag with the David's debacle, not the renters. Covid was also a super unusual black-swan event where potential renters may be willing to let somethign slide. Tons of reviews on tripadvisor and all over social media warning people away from renting because of cancelled reservations (what happened with Wyndham) would absolutely be a horse of a different color.

We rented through https://dvcrequest.com/ for a March of 2020 BLT trip. We ended up pushing the trip out a year…. so more of a credit than a refund.

We always considered renting to have an elevated level of risk vs booking a hotel because of the cancelation policy and were happy to get the credit.

 

[DonMacGregor]

View attachment 971142

Damn, I guess it's time to cover up the old webcam on my laptop...

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

I am solidly curious who here is actually okay with people renting a majority of their points simply for profit?

https://www.disboards.com/threads/p...-month-window-at-any-resort-18-00-pp.3967383/

https://www.disboards.com/threads/2...-aul-300-ss-270-gf-408.3967990/#post-66179966

https://www.disboards.com/threads/e...a-and-okw-points-to-rent-18-50-20-50.3963289/

https://www.disboards.com/threads/1...-at-all-resorts-starting-at-20-point.3965848/

 

[lowlight]

This is what makes discussion difficult. I would challenge you to link one post where someone has explicitly said that every single day of the year, at 8:00 am sharp, none of those room options are available. Ever.

There’s something in gaming called “min maxing”. It is a niche group of gamers who use reverse engineering of hidden game variables and mathematics to make their character the best at “xyz” possible. While technically not an exploit, it ruins the game for everyone else because the game encounter is being approached in a way that it wasn’t designed for, so then it needs to be “buffed”, or made harder, which makes all the normal players suffer.

That is what is happening to DVC at the moment, and specifically to high value spec rental rooms. Like in gaming circles, the min maxers will always defend themselves and tell you they aren’t breaking the rules and you just need to “get good”. When I used to interview people for a living, I always found people had a blind spot that they liked to park all their secret bad behavior in as a self defense mechanism. I think these strawmen are actually just blind spots on display.

 

[tx911]

I mean… I read it as you are ok with commercial renting as long as it’s not spec renting.

I think that’s probably where I land. That is also because I think the overwhelming majority of renters aren’t booking 11m out.

I'm against all commercial renting, spec or otherwise, and the legalization of marijuana.

 

[DonMacGregor]

https://www.disboards.com/threads/p...-month-window-at-any-resort-18-00-pp.3967383/

https://www.disboards.com/threads/2...-aul-300-ss-270-gf-408.3967990/#post-66179966

https://www.disboards.com/threads/e...a-and-okw-points-to-rent-18-50-20-50.3963289/

https://www.disboards.com/threads/1...-at-all-resorts-starting-at-20-point.3965848/

Those are just incredibly prescient owners. They even had a payment plan in place, you know, just in case they might just have to cancel that one 4,300-point reservation because grandma's next-door neighbor at the retirement home is turning 100 next year, and none of those 4.300 points are bankable.

Annually I have:
2400 Old Key West
1900 Saratoga Springs

I am an experienced and friendly owner.
I have great references. I know all the best rooms. I am hoping to do larger rentals.
I can book a reservation at home resorts up to 11 months out and all other resorts up to 7 months out.
I use a 2 payment plan.
If you are interested in a Disney Vacation club rental – Post below or PM me (preferred) and I will respond quickly to your questions.

No pattern there and definitely renting just this one time...

 

[muppets3d]

Those are just incredibly prescient owners. They even had a payment plan in place, you know, just in case they might just have to cancel that one 4,300-point reservation because grandma's next-door neighbor at the retirement home is turning 100 next year, and none of those 4.300 points are bankable.


No pattern there and definitely renting just this one time...

Just until the grandkids can walk.

 

[Galun]

The end game is to collapse demand.

That’s a big stretch from putting a checkbox on the booking website attesting to personal use.

They change the language to define personal use to mean that the member does not regularly or frequently rent / sell reservations. Their definition of personal use allows rentals.

There are zero signs they are trying to crash the market like Wyndham. There are clear signs that they are going after commercial renters.

 

[Kingkonig]

There’s something in gaming called “min maxing”. It is a niche group of gamers who use reverse engineering of hidden game variables and mathematics to make their character the best at “xyz” possible. While technically not an exploit, it ruins the game for everyone else because the game encounter is being approached in a way that it wasn’t designed for, so then it needs to be “buffed”, or made harder, which makes all the normal players suffer.

That is what is happening to DVC at the moment, and specifically to high value spec rental rooms. Like in gaming circles, the min maxers will always defend themselves and tell you they aren’t breaking the rules and you just need to “get good”. When I used to interview people for a living, I always found people had a blind spot that they liked to park all their secret bad behavior in as a self defense mechanism. I think these strawmen are actually just blind spots on display.

Oh man I haven’t thought about min-maxing since early Star Wars: The Old Republic days (when they nerfed the Sith Inquisitor!).

Just as annoying in a single player game, TES4: Oblivion. You HAD to min-max to be able to build a good endgame character.

 

[Cyberc1978]

I mean anyone can sue anyone else for any reason!

But you have to prove standing and you have to prove you’re correct. Proving standing against Disney would involve claiming you’re losing profit, which would make it harder to justify that you’re not a commercial renter.

Or they could argue that what they are doing are with the boundaries of the old rules which Disney changed and now they are loosing out.

Furthermore they can claim what Disney is doing they are doing in bad faith as the only reason or the primary reason is for their own benefit.

Additionally since the wording is so vague it leaves a lot of rooms for interpretation.

I’m sure if anyone did take Disney to court a judge would ask for Disneys interpretation or the metrics they use to decide if an owner is a commercial enterprise or not.

 

[DanCali]

Over the past few weeks I’ve taken my first interest in Interval International, and joined a Facebook user group. The first thing I noticed was the large amount of DVC inventory Disney was dumping in there and I asked if this was normal. Nope … they were having a field day with the cheap rooms, I was even envious, some were cheaper than renting from a broker … but then it dawned on me that this can’t be good. Now we see them putting the commercial renters on notice … makes sense … go get ‘em Mickey!

Getting DVC via Interval is fair game. One can buy a cheap 2BR Lockoff no-brand name timeshare with maintenance fees of ~$1000-$1500, split it into 2 units and get 2 DVC weeks out of it. You get a room for less than $100/night (or less than 5 points/night in rental value of $20/pt). It's totally legit and plenty of discussions on TUG about it.

However: (i) the vast majority of DVC inventory in Interval is OKW, SSR and maybe some AKV. You're not going to get VGF, Poly or RIV, and (ii) II explicitly prohibits rentals of exchanges and they've been known to enforce it. That doesn't mean that Interval DVC rentals don't show up on Redweek or other places, but a renter who touches that risks cancelation of the reservation and the "owner" risks closure of their II account.

 

[DanCali]

That is simply not true…because people have posted here they have indeed gotten an AKV CL studio.

So, commercial renters are not getting those 5 rooms every single day. They just are not.

@muppets3d I agree with this. We've stayed there multiple times either by picking up scraps from walkers or booking at 11 months. I even extended a stay via waitlist that came through at 6+ months. I don't think most of the CL studios are booked for rental purposes.

 

[muppets3d]

A popular DVC site has 3 AKL value studio confirmed reservations available for rent next month - for the same night.

 

[OKW Lover]

I am solidly curious who here is actually okay with people renting a majority of their points simply for profit?

As a firm believer in capitalism, I'm quite OK with it. The less restriction placed on what I own, the better.

 

[VGCgroupie]

A popular DVC site has 3 AKL value studio confirmed reservations available for rent next month - for the same night.

Fair game, Im sure no owner who gets to go once or twice year really needed to stay in that studio that night, they can just book a 1 bedroom!

 

[VGCgroupie]

As a firm believer in capitalism, I'm quite OK with it. The less restriction placed on what I own, the better.

It's a good thing you love OKW and thats not where the commercial renters book.

 

[muppets3d]

@muppets3d I agree with this. We've stayed there multiple times either by picking up scraps from walkers or booking at 11 months. I even extended a stay via waitlist that came through at 6+ months. I don't think most of the CL studios are booked for rental purposes.

Someone has been keeping those rooms locked up in a walk for the past 6 months. If it's not a commercial renter, who is it. Show yourself, prove me wrong!

 

[Kingkonig]

Fair game, Im sure no owner who gets to go once or twice year really needed to stay in that studio that night, they can just book a 1 bedroom!

Unironically this is why when buying at the Riviera our guide was shocked by us requesting double the points he was trying to ease us in with. “100 would do what you need, but if you want direct benefits, try 150!” Was gonna be his pitch.

We explained that we had looked into it and knew that it was going to be impossible to get the low cost rooms we actually wanted, so we needed to have a minimum of 200 in order to get a 1Br if we couldn’t ever get the studios.

 

[VGCgroupie]

Unironically this is why when buying at the Riviera our guide was shocked by us requesting double the points he was trying to ease us in with. “100 would do what you need, but if you want direct benefits, try 150!” Was gonna be his pitch.

We explained that we had looked into it and knew that it was going to be impossible to get the low cost rooms we actually wanted, so we needed to have a minimum of 200 in order to get a 1Br if we couldn’t ever get the studios.

I love when buyers are more educated than the guides. Kudos to you for knowing what you were getting into.