DVC Response About Ebay Commercial Sellers

[twinklebug]

Fisrt off let me say I am guilty of not reading all 40 or so pages of this thread, so if anyone has said this before I apologise.

We just returned from a wonderful, RENTED, reservation at VWL. I have rented DVC before and have been working on my DH to buy-in. This vacation I did a bit of work and took the SSR tour and spoke with a tour guide for some time who gave me numerous "hints" as to the next DVC, past & future pricing etc.

What I find interesting is during the presentation they pointed out the value of owning at SSR as compared to a reservation through Disney for the same accomodations (see small white insert with room prices if you have one) and they specifically pointed out that I could rent my points at any time and make $$ by renting at prices close to but under disney's... and the guide stressed that Disney actually encouraged this use!

So, I know Disney is against transfer of points for commercial renters, but they are not against large point ownership & renting of those points under your own name. Seems I'm hearing conflicting info.

 

[LIFERBABE]

I know LIFERBABE and all you Discers vets know LIFERBABE, and we have all grown to Respect her and take her advise very serouisly. LIFERBABE is a
great asset to the disboards and a great friend to all of us. LIFERBABE is not disdvcer .

now that said..... LIFERBABE you didnt tell me you are living a double life on the disboards.... I would have thought you would have let me in on the secret....

By the way i think since you live a double life on the disboards we should split the members cruise three ways !

Thanks wdwstar for that positive identification.

I didnt think you would want to share a cabin for 4 days with a GASP!!!! Commercial Renter!! How would you sleep at night!

Ok, If we go three ways on the Member Cruise, then I am going to need another DVC Christmas Tree for my alter-ego and her made-up family!

See you on the cruise!

 

[Deb & Bill]

Fisrt off let me say I am guilty of not reading all 40 or so pages of this thread, so if anyone has said this before I apologise.

We just returned from a wonderful, RENTED, reservation at VWL. I have rented DVC before and have been working on my DH to buy-in. This vacation I did a bit of work and took the SSR tour and spoke with a tour guide for some time who gave me numerous "hints" as to the next DVC, past & future pricing etc.

What I find interesting is during the presentation they pointed out the value of owning at SSR as compared to a reservation through Disney for the same accomodations (see small white insert with room prices if you have one) and they specifically pointed out that I could rent my points at any time and make $$ by renting at prices close to but under disney's... and the guide stressed that Disney actually encouraged this use!

So, I know Disney is against transfer of points for commercial renters, but they are not against large point ownership & renting of those points under your own name. Seems I'm hearing conflicting info.

A few things to remember when talking to a guide. There are many good ones and some not as good. Some want to make a sale and will tell you almost anything they think you want to hear (you can choose to believe this statement or not, but I do). They are not all that knowledgeable on what they are selling (again, some are and some are not). And if you don't get it in writing, you haven't gotten a thing.

Once when walking through the models at the BW office, I heard a guide tell a potential member something that I knew was incorrect. After he was not with the person, I suggested that he correct his statement because it was not correct. He blustered about saying that he was sure he was right. About 10 minutes later, he came up to me and told me that yes, I was correct about what he had said in error and he was surprised that he didn't know that and I did.

Read your Public Offering Statement for the most correct information, plus the other literature that they give you.

 

[Johnnie Fedora]

The occasional renter that happens to have extra points for whatever reason that doesn't prebook high volume seasons are not the ones that bug me. The ones that I group together with high volume commercial renters, even if they only rent out once a year, are the ones that prebook peak season to get top dollar to "make money, pay their maintenance fees, etc.". Those folks are the ones that also need to be addressed via Disney, IMHO.

You might ask yourself how you feel about a member who owns 200 points and always books Xmas?

As best I can tell, peak season is approximately 1/3 of the calandar year Xmas, Presidents Week, Spring Break, F&W, Early December at DVC.

Therefore, I think it is fair for me to spend 1/3 of my points for such peak reservations. What I do with the reservations is my business.

It seems that many are now defining "peak season" as anytime I want a reservation...regardless of when I call MS to book it.

 

[OneMoreTry]

The ones that I group together with high volume commercial renters, even if they only rent out once a year, are the ones that prebook peak season to get top dollar to "make money, pay their maintenance fees, etc.". Those folks are the ones that also need to be addressed via Disney, IMHO.

I've never rented points, but don't have a problem with others raising the money for their annual fee this way -- I'd rather someone rent out points than be forced to sell them -- which could theoretically drive down point value overall. I can't imagine a lot of members do this.

If I had a lean year or two I'd do it and not feel guilty -- rather than have to sell.

Regarding PEAK season: IMHO, anyone should be able to book peak season as often as they like if they're willing to spend the extra points.

 

[Anjelica]

You might ask yourself how you feel about a member who owns 200 points and always books Xmas?

As best I can tell, peak season is approximately 1/3 of the calandar year Xmas, Presidents Week, Spring Break, F&W, Early December at DVC.

Therefore, I think it is fair for me to spend 1/3 of my points for such peak reservations. What I do with the reservations is my business.

It seems that many are now defining "peak season" as anytime I want a reservation...regardless of when I call MS to book it.

I don't consider that commercial renting. You aren't using it to "make money". I think that in the "spirit" of DVC someone who goes with their family every Christmas is not an issue. Its those who rent out XMAS time strictly to pay for their dues, make money, etc - i.e. commercial business.

 

[Anjelica]

I've never rented points, but don't have a problem with others raising the money for their annual fee this way -- I'd rather someone rent out points than be forced to sell them -- which could theoretically drive down point value overall. I can't imagine a lot of members do this.

If I had a lean year or two I'd do it and not feel guilty -- rather than have to sell.

Regarding PEAK season: IMHO, anyone should be able to book peak season as often as they like if they're willing to spend the extra points.

of us not agreeing. Again, the occasional renter who makes his points available for anyone to use anytime (regardless of season) is not a point of contention for me. Its the ones who rent out XMAS, Easter, etc. STRICTLY to get higher value for their rent points and therefore takes away from those DVC members who want to use their points for family vacations, etc. This again, takes away the "spirit" of DVC, IMHO.

 

[rinkwide]

Spirit of DVC? That's a good one.

The "spirit" of DVC is unambiguous and spelled out in the POS - Disney gets an up-front cash windfall out of you by promising 40 years of vacations. After that all bets are off.

Folks, check your idealism at the door.

 

[twinklebug]

A few things to remember when talking to a guide. There are many good ones and some not as good. Some want to make a sale and will tell you almost anything they think you want to hear (you can choose to believe this statement or not, but I do). They are not all that knowledgeable on what they are selling (again, some are and some are not). And if you don't get it in writing, you haven't gotten a thing. ...
Read your Public Offering Statement for the most correct information, plus the other literature that they give you.

All to often I'm suckered into believing what I hear... and when I question what I hear those around me criticize me for being overly cautious. It's a no-win situation.

The guide we had said that they had been a DVC owner for the last 10 years. Perhaps when he said Disney encourages renting of points he was referring to his ability to do so before the law was laid down. I do wish they'd coach the guides on the rules as they are brought to light.

Regardless, I have decided we will be buying in, I have no plans to be a power renter... just want a place to call home for a week or two out of the year Oh, and SSR is not for us so either we wait for the next DVC to be built or we go private resale.

 

[Dean]

OIt seems to me that the difference is obvious - the commercial renters, the ones that really frustrate everyone... are the ones who prebook rooms under their own names then change the reservation to the name of whoever pays top dollar at auction.

I would totally disagree. It may be easy to tell a few high volume people but other than that it comes down to where do you draw the line and the fact that as a rule, we will not have a lot of the information. Your line may be different than mine. But certainly where you rent or how much you get or even if you prebook, none are reasonable measures of commercials vs not unto themselves. If so, put me in that group as I'll get the highest amount I can and have done a couple on ebay over the years. While I've never prebooked with the idea of renting specifically, I have prebooked a group trip then rented out the units I didn't need. And I wouldn't hesitate to prebook high demand times if I thought that was the only way I could get a return I felt was reasonable.

The occasional renter that happens to have extra points for whatever reason that doesn't prebook high volume seasons are not the ones that bug me. The ones that I group together with high volume commercial renters, even if they only rent out once a year, are the ones that prebook peak season to get top dollar to "make money, pay their maintenance fees, etc.". Those folks are the ones that also need to be addressed via Disney, IMHO.

But there's nothing against the rules even if it rubs you the wrong way. Every member who books prime time takes away from someone else regardless of their intended usage.

Spirit of DVC? That's a good one.

The "spirit" of DVC is unambiguous and spelled out in the POS - Disney gets an up-front cash windfall out of you by promising 40 years of vacations. After that all bets are off.

Folks, check your idealism at the door.

And therein lies the crux of this matter. Many bought for different reasons. And while not all of those reasons or situations fit with the disney colored glasses many wear, most are within the rules and laws of the state of FL. And that's in spite of the FACT that many see certain catch words in the POS and make huge assumptions that are not true.

 

[Anjelica]

Spirit of DVC? That's a good one.

The "spirit" of DVC is unambiguous and spelled out in the POS - Disney gets an up-front cash windfall out of you by promising 40 years of vacations. After that all bets are off.

Folks, check your idealism at the door.

No idealism here....just opinions and sure got alot to go around. In this case my opinion. I'm sure Disney had every intention of folks buying into DVC to turn it into a side business.....again the "spirit" of DVC I guess.

 

[Anjelica]

But there's nothing against the rules even if it rubs you the wrong way. Every member who books prime time takes away from someone else regardless of their intended usage.

Commercial renting isn't against the rules?

And I agree completely - if isn't against the rules then so be it. I state several times that these are simply my opinions. I may not be happy with the rules and I can only do what anyone in my situation who doesn't like the rules can do, let the folks who can change those rules know how I feel. No different then writing to your local supermarket or congressman about something you would like to see changed.

Don't get me wrong here - I am under no dillusions that anything can or will change with the rules - however if no one ever voiced their opinion about rules/laws, etc. how would anything ever change.....

 

[Dean]

Commercial renting isn't against the rules?

Technically against the rules whatever that definition actually is, which IMO, violate FL law in this regard. Anecdotal reports so far would suggest that only those doing many MULTIPLE reservations with points transferred in are being looked at and no reports of DVC contact or enforcing this issue in any way. But my suggestion to you was that your definition of commercial renting was different than mine which is different than others. If I understood your post correctly, you were grouping anyone who renter out "high demand times" in the same category as a "commercial renter". And there's nothing in the rules that would uphold that definition. I can see how it might feel it's wrong but that's different than being in violation.

 

[Muushka]

No idealism here....just opinions and sure got alot to go around. In this case my opinion. I'm sure Disney had every intention of folks buying into DVC to turn it into a side business.....again the "spirit" of DVC I guess.

I am with you on this. But I give up trying to argue with people on these boards.

 

[Y-ASK]

IMO, Kind of a selfish way of viewing the issue of reservation renting. DVC members making prime season reservations with the sole intent of renting in order to maximize thier profits and thier pockets while foresaking other DVC members. But hey if DVC is fine with that and members can sleep at night what do I care...

Y-ASK

I don't remember my POS stateing "Check your Idealism at the door". Gotta go back and read that thing again .

 

[granmanh603]

I am with you on this. But I give up trying to argue with people on these boards.

I agree with both of you too. Just my opinion but I am intitled to that too.

 

[diznyfanatic]

I understand everyone has their own opinions, and that we'll never get a universal concensus on what constitutes fair play.

In my opinion only, renting points to people who need them to use, even consistently and commercially, is very different than snatching up prime weeks on speculation to rent for profit.

Creating multiple ID's in order to pimp themselves and hide behind, and to obscure the truth or even intentionally deceive, or to scoop up cheap, distressed points for the purpose of morphing, as well as coming up with creative ways to circumvent point maximum restrictions, probably won't ever fit into my personal definition of the "spirit" of DVC and fair play.

 

[calypso*a*go-go]

No idealism here....just opinions and sure got alot to go around. In this case my opinion. I'm sure Disney had every intention of folks buying into DVC to turn it into a side business.....again the "spirit" of DVC I guess.

I disagree with this statement as I feel Disney did not intend for DVC to become a thriving rental business for members or they wouldn't have DVC resorts available to book through CRO. I think someone finally realized how much profit they were losing by members renting to people that would normally have to book directly w/Disney to experience all the villas have to offer. Also, if sales at SSR have slowed down at all, I'm sure they are looking at any and all areas that could help their bottomline and commerical renting was a good place to start.

 

[rinkwide]

...Disney did not intend for DVC to become a thriving rental business for members...

Of course they didn't, it's an inconvenient byproduct of Disney Vacation Development's timeshare money-grab. Unfortunately, it looks as though they're going to misrepresent the POS and punitively increase restrictions to try and control the market.

Like it or not, I think all members should be thankful that there are commercial rental businesses out there, it's an indicator of the tremendous value we all share in the Disney Vacation Club.

 

[Anjelica]

I disagree with this statement as I feel Disney did not intend for DVC to become a thriving rental business for members or they wouldn't have DVC resorts available to book through CRO. I think someone finally realized how much profit they were losing by members renting to people that would normally have to book directly w/Disney to experience all the villas have to offer. Also, if sales at SSR have slowed down at all, I'm sure they are looking at any and all areas that could help their bottomline and commerical renting was a good place to start.

Calypso - I was being sarcastic in my earlier note when I stated that I am sure Disney had every intention of DVC members running a "side business". I don't think Disney intended for folks to rent their points out solely to make a profit year after year (profit by the renter that is) and not for their own personal use as family vacation get-aways.