DVC Response About Ebay Commercial Sellers

[Oreo Cookie]

I agree Disney may be partly to blame but it is the schemers, the guests who look for every loophole they can find and take full advantage of said loopholes who are really to blame.

The schemers knew that what they were doing was clearly against POS rules.
They knew they were hurting the average DVC members by booking up prime time vacation rooms but they did it anyway.

So to me that is where most of the blame lies. It lies at the feet of those
who love to "game the system."

In this case they are hurting "you" not just Disney!

I can understand your point of view.

Do I support the commercial renter? NO. But I don't know how Disney defines the commercial renter, versus someone who rents once or twice a year. I think the average DVC member probably doesn't rent points, or if they do, it is occasionally.

I've been a member only a short time, since 2001, but I've used my points every year so far. I don't anticipate renting, but you never know what the future holds. I've been lucky enough to get the reservations I've requested, even when being on a waitlist. I'm going in December, 10-15, but I did take advantage of the 11 month booking window at my home resort.

I do put more blame on Disney. Lets face it, the same family was buying multiple contracts. You can't convince me that sales rep selling the DVC membership didn't know, or a least have an idea, of what was going on. The rep wants their commission, and Disney wants the money. Disney created this situation by allowing the same family to buy multiple contracts.

Do I view some of these actions by individuals as unethical? Yes, I do. I don't like the idea that they are booking up prime weeks, but again Disney allowed the situation to happen, so any action to correct the situation needs to be done by Disney.

I personally don't like all of the "outings" that are happening on these boards. I understand why everyone is upset, but I do think more of the anger should be towards how Disney allowed the program to develop and take on a life of its own.

 

[Deb & Bill]

...I do put more blame on Disney. Lets face it, the same family was buying multiple contracts. You can't convince me that sales rep selling the DVC membership didn't know, or a least have an idea, of what was going on. The rep wants their commission, and Disney wants the money. Disney created this situation by allowing the same family to buy multiple contracts...

How much you want to bet they have their own real estate company so they can do their own purchases? Lots of the W purchases were resales and not directly from Disney.

I have also noticed some of the frequent renters to have purchased SSR 120 point contracts, got the extra points then sold the 120 point contracts after using up the points. How creative!!

 

[jdg345]

How much you want to bet they have their own real estate company so they can do their own purchases? Lots of the W purchases were resales and not directly from Disney.

I have also noticed some of the frequent renters to have purchased SSR 120 point contracts, got the extra points then sold the 120 point contracts after using up the points. How creative!!

Not to mention the free AP's ... or was that 130 min?

 

[Sammie]

I vote Yardsale. If anyone feels strong enough to contact Disney then that's their biz. I'll keep my opinions to the this thread and forum. No phone calls from me...

Y-ASK

Ok, please humor me. No critism of you personally, everyone is entitled to do what they believe is right. But the psychology student in me must ask.

It is obvious from your comments to this thread you definitely have an opinion about this situation. Why have one at all or voice it here if you are not going to act on it.

To me that is kinda like being critical of the government but never voting.

 

[snowbunny]

This whole family thing reminds me of a Dateline special I saw once on these people called something like Irish Travelers. They had this large extended family that ran all these intertwined businesses and scams.

Oh boy...

 

[Y-ASK]

It is obvious from your comments to this thread you definitely have an opinion about this situation. Why have one at all or voice it here if you are not going to act on it.

To me that is kinda like being critical of the government but never voting.

While searching for all the information that I've been able to gather (a lot more than what I've posted) one thing has become clear to me, DVC knows about the big dollar purchasers and they obviously know about Arlene's side business, but yet they still are not doing anything about it. I've know about point morphing for over two years now. I never fully considered the ramfications from a lot of people morphing and renting but I knew about the concept. So my opinion is that DVC already knows, what more can I say or do? Maybe the letter reminding everyone of the policy is a start but until we see less and less of the "reservations for rent" I'll not hold my breath waiting for DVC to do something about after all they've allowed this to happen.

Now as far as the reason for posting my opinion; I like to particpate in this forum although I do need to post more in the happy threads .


Y-ASK

 

[DisneyTarheel]

Ahhhhh! Just found more interesting stuff. Regarding the "Wechsler Children Family Trust"... there's a quit-claim (I'll admit that I'm not sure exactly what that means) by Michelle Braunstein to Richard Braunstein, who according to this document, lives in Lindenhurst, NOT Pennsylvania.

Sorry for the OT, but quit-claim simply means you transfer whatever interest you may have, but make no warranty as to what that interest may be. i.e whatever you may have, they now have.

 

[NMW]

Oh boy...

Trust me, I was not suggesting that these people and their family members are in any way criminals worthy of a Dateline special! It's just that the points in all different family members names reminded me of the episode. Sorry if I offended anyone.

 

[minnie61650]

I was just reading on other boards that waitlists for prime weeks are starting to come through for members.

I am so happy to hear some of the dates are freeing up.

 

[Oreo Cookie]

How much you want to bet they have their own real estate company so they can do their own purchases? Lots of the W purchases were resales and not directly from Disney.

I have also noticed some of the frequent renters to have purchased SSR 120 point contracts, got the extra points then sold the 120 point contracts after using up the points. How creative!!

I didn't go through all of the purchases on the comptroller's website. My personal view is that the "W" family was wrong with what they did and manipulated the system. I believe they are commercial renters and something should be done. I just find it hard to believe that Disney didn't know what they were doing. I mean think of all the calls that were logged into MS by these people.

I do hope that the transfer enforcement helps stabilize this situation, thus affecting their business.

As for the average person who rents, I have nothing against that. It's allowed under the rules of DVC. I guess is you wanted to rent points and get the biggest bang you would go with a holiday week. Is is right or wrong? I guess that is everyone's own moral view.

I guess what amazes me with all of this, is that we have always been able to use our points. We gone to Disney, we've traded to the Concierge Collection as well as the World Passport Collection, and have had great vacations. Maybe I'm not maximizing my points, but I'm having a great vacation!

 

[Sammie]

While searching for all the information that I've been able to gather (a lot more than what I've posted) one thing has become clear to me, DVC knows about the big dollar purchasers and they obviously know about Arlene's side business, but yet they still are not doing anything about it. I've know about point morphing for over two years now. I never fully considered the ramfications from a lot of people morphing and renting but I knew about the concept. So my opinion is that DVC already knows, what more can I say or do? Maybe the letter reminding everyone of the policy is a start but until we see less and less of the "reservations for rent" I'll not hold my breath waiting for DVC to do something about after all they've allowed this to happen.

Now as far as the reason for posting my opinion; I like to particpate in this forum although I do need to post more in the happy threads .


Y-ASK

Thanks for the response. I do think if enough members complain about the same issue they take notice. Certainly they are not going to change policy for the concerns on one individual but I think this is different.

 

[jennybobenny]

Quote:
Originally Posted by LIFERBABE
But if you feel so inclined, just spell my name right


Point taken and sorry for the poor quality check. Just wondering, Liferbabe, if you are indeed "disdvcer" on E-Bay?

Did I miss something? Is Liferbabe also 'disdvcer' ?

 

[drakethib]

I noticed that most of the people who have points to rent have very few post, the majority have 25 and under. I think people are joining just to rent which I am not saying is wrong but I would be careful of renting from someone with one post. They may have some bad eggs logginng in as a different name.

Any Mods want to comment on this as well?

Thanks

 

[tmt martins]

I noticed that most of the people who have points to rent have very few post, the majority have 25 and under. I think people are joining just to rent which I am not saying is wrong but I would be careful of renting from someone with one post. They may have some bad eggs logginng in as a different name.

Any Mods want to comment on this as well?

Thanks

I would say either 70%-80% have Mules to rent points.

Or others just Join because their Guide tells them they can rent those extra points here on the Dis to pay for their maintence fees

 

[jdg345]

I would say either 70%-80% have Mules to rent points.

Or others just Join because their Guide tells them they can rent those extra points here on the Dis to pay for their maintence fees

Yah, that's what I would guess as well ... with all the negativity surrounding renters these days, I wouldn't be surprised if those with higher post counts and some 'status' posted their available points/reservations/etc for rent via an alternate user name.

 

[Groucho]

One thing that keeps getting brought up is "how to tell a commercial renter from an average member"...

It seems to me that the difference is obvious - the commercial renters, the ones that really frustrate everyone... are the ones who prebook rooms under their own names then change the reservation to the name of whoever pays top dollar at auction.

With my first year's points, I transferred some and rented some - but it was a matter of someone looking for a specific time, then me setting it up for them. Similarly, I don't really have a problem with someone with some extra points going on eBay and saying "I'll rent points for $10/pt, you pick the time and I'll book it if it's available" rather than auction prebooked nights. They could do the auction on a per-point basis. It'd be a little messier... but not as abusive of the system.

What DVC really needs to crack down on is the prebooking then name-changing. Perhaps the rule ought to be, you either can't change the name on an existing reservation, or if that's too draconian (it probably is), limit it to once per use year, and only for one room. That would immediately and completely solve the problem of these people prebooking blocks of rooms then selling them while not affecting us normal owners in any way.

 

[Anjelica]

One thing that keeps getting brought up is "how to tell a commercial renter from an average member"...

It seems to me that the difference is obvious - the commercial renters, the ones that really frustrate everyone... are the ones who prebook rooms under their own names then change the reservation to the name of whoever pays top dollar at auction.

With my first year's points, I transferred some and rented some - but it was a matter of someone looking for a specific time, then me setting it up for them. Similarly, I don't really have a problem with someone with some extra points going on eBay and saying "I'll rent points for $10/pt, you pick the time and I'll book it if it's available" rather than auction prebooked nights. They could do the auction on a per-point basis. It'd be a little messier... but not as abusive of the system.

What DVC really needs to crack down on is the prebooking then name-changing. Perhaps the rule ought to be, you either can't change the name on an existing reservation, or if that's too draconian (it probably is), limit it to once per use year, and only for one room. That would immediately and completely solve the problem of these people prebooking blocks of rooms then selling them while not affecting us normal owners in any way.

The occasional renter that happens to have extra points for whatever reason that doesn't prebook high volume seasons are not the ones that bug me. The ones that I group together with high volume commercial renters, even if they only rent out once a year, are the ones that prebook peak season to get top dollar to "make money, pay their maintenance fees, etc.". Those folks are the ones that also need to be addressed via Disney, IMHO.

 

[jdg345]

The occasional renter that happens to have extra points for whatever reason that doesn't prebook high volume seasons are not the ones that bug me. The ones that I group together with high volume commercial renters, even if they only rent out once a year, are the ones that prebook peak season to get top dollar to "make money, pay their maintenance fees, etc.". Those folks are the ones that also need to be addressed via Disney, IMHO.

I think this will be tough ... I agree with what you're saying, but I think it will be tough. There are plenty of folks that rent one week a year ... they bought enough points for themselves, plus enough to do a peak rental. In fairness, it's quite an entrepreneurial idea ... though it does hurt other DVC members as if everyone did it, it would easily reduce availability by 50% if not more. I guess some people feel like they can get DVC for free.

 

[LIFERBABE]

Did I miss something? Is Liferbabe also 'disdvcer' ?

No you did not miss a thing. No I AM NOT disdvcer. If I was, I would tell you.
And I know you were asking a simple question and not using an accusatory tone.

The following Jennybobenny is not directed at you:

I questioned the tactics being used on this thread to "out" Commercial Renters, therefore making myself a target for this runaway wreck.

Right after I posted my thoughts, I received a prophetic PM, that I was going to be the next "target" because of what I wrote.
I responded, that I did not care, I think it is wrong, and someone needed to say that it was wrong.

Disney does not even have a clear definiton of Commercial renting and yet we have a group of people here that will make that determination and then post every iota of information they can find about that person on the DIS? We wouldnt be able to agree on what we wanted on a Pizza but we can agree to who is Commercial and who is not?

I spent a month at WDW last year recovering (Thank God for DVC!) because I was falsely embroiled in a huge deception perpetrated by fellow co-workers and so-called friends. Everyone ran scared and did not want to speak up, because they did not want to be caught up in it too. So alot of wrong was allowed to happen because people were scared of losing their jobs. McCarthyism at its best. I came out of that for the better (with a promo), but also with a strong belief that wrong is wrong and I will never let what I have to lose get in the way of that. I had alot to lose then and was ready to walk away, matter of fact, I packed up my family and lived at DVC for a month because my family is the most important and they knew I was telling the truth and that was all that mattered.

So no I am not a shill renter on Ebay or the Dis. As stated many times before, I have rented and will rent points in the future.

Y-ASK thank you for your reconsideration and editing of your posts. I knew that if I could reach just 1 person that my post would be worth the negative speculation I would receive.

To everyone else, please thoroughly read your POS's and if you need further clarification or want to report what you perceive as abuse, call or write the QA or Customer Service Department at DVC Member Services. I love the Dis, but misinformation can be dangerous when people are uninformed about policy and procedure.

 

[wdwstar]

Did I miss something? Is Liferbabe also 'disdvcer' ?

I know LIFERBABE and all you Discers vets know LIFERBABE, and we have all grown to Respect her and take her advise very serouisly. LIFERBABE is a
great asset to the disboards and a great friend to all of us. LIFERBABE is not disdvcer .

now that said..... LIFERBABE you didnt tell me you are living a double life on the disboards.... I would have thought you would have let me in on the secret....

By the way i think since you live a double life on the disboards we should split the members cruise three ways !