DVC Response About Ebay Commercial Sellers

[Dean]

On a side note, I received an email of a posting to this thread that was done yesterday, and it named several people that post on this board and are said to rent commercially. This person also stated that DVC has them on a "watch list". Several hours later I received another email of a posting that said "What ever happened to today's post from the person that called out some fellow DISers as abusers to the system. It named names and was gone an hour later. Maybe the Rentees have more pull then we all think." This person was right, that 1st post is no longer listed, as far as I can see. But I know it did exist because I have it in my email.

I believe that type of post would be against DIS rules and suspect it was pulled for that reason.

 

[minnie61650]

First of all I will admit that I am not a DVC owner, or renter. I am interested in becoming a DVC owner (if and when) a DVC is built on the monorail.

We looked into DVC years ago but I was not that interested.
I did tell DH at that time if one were built with monorail acess then I would buy.
To me the location of the home resort is the most important choice and I wanted mine on the monorail. When the rumor of a DVC at the Contemporary even had a reputable architectural firm post plans on their website I became very interested in learning more about DVC because I always said I would buy into the DVC when one was built with monorail access.
Just a little background info as to why I have been lurking on the DVC boards the last couple of weeks.

I have been watching DVC ebay auctions on and off for a few years now. (Even longer than I have been a DIS member.)

I buy a few small items and some Disney collectibles on ebay but would never make a large purchase on ebay.

It has bothered me that a few of sellers I see listing DVC on ebay seem to have access to a lot of DVC properties and I have often wondered how that affects the availability of units to DVC members.

I am watching these developments with interest since I am truly thinking of buying into DVC (if the DVC at the Contemporary becomes a reality) for my personal pleasure but I am trying to keep my eyes and ears wide open.

I am hoping we will hear an announcement for the CRV in October.
From what I read it will most likely be a year or so after an announcement before they go on sale. I have a lot of research to cover!

 

[NMW]

Or maybe not, maybe they have had distressed points transferred into their account and laundered them for their rental purposes. Until recently I did not understand this process and now that I do it infuriates me! But it also infuriates me that Disney is unable/unwilling to rectify this situation by fixing their transfer tracking system.

Until I started reading these threads, I didn't understand it either. It didn't make sense to me that points could be transferred and then magicly become points in another resort. Now I understand how it works and I think it's really very wrong. I hope people keep reporting commercial renters to DVC and that they do something about it. Something must have changed if they are concerned about it now and I think that's a good thing! I really hope DVC puts these people out of business.

I also agree with the people who said that getting the meal plan should be like the AP purchase in that you NEED to be a member. People seem to love this meal plan-I hardly ever read a dining review that didin't involve the meal plan. I think that would cut down on a lot of renting, especially during free dining periods.

I'm very happy that non-members can no longer call MS and that members are only allowed one transfer per year. I read how this policy may hurt some members (planning a family reunion for example) but I don't think there is any other way. I really don't understand why DVC can't track tranfers and keep the points with their respective resorts in the first place! That would solve most of the problems.

 

[starbox]

I am watching these developments with interest since I am truly thinking of buying into DVC (if the DVC at the Contemporary becomes a reality) for my personal pleasure but I am trying to keep my eyes and ears wide open.

I am hoping we will hear an announcement for the CRV in October.
From what I read it will most likely be a year or so after an announcement before they go on sale. I have a lot of research to cover!

I expect that an upcoming CRV is part of what is fueling Disney to get control of the rental market. I believe that CRV will be extremely popular/desirable for renters because the CR itself is outdated. I know some people love it as is, but even one of the CMs on our last trip said that the CR "needs" DVC more than DVC needs it because it is the one deluxe resort that CRO can't fill. To put it simply, CRO won't be able to compete with a mass of renters offering prime CRV units at discounts off rack rate because the CR hotel rooms are going to be less desirable than the DVC units. If it were not for the monorail, the CM I spoke with doubted CR would have survived at all.

The monorail is very attractive, as is the proximity to the MK. The preliminary designs for the villas look really nice. With a DVC upgrading and refurbishment - it could easily, easily become one of the most desirable spots on property - for everyone, not just for DVC members.

I think that Disney is looking ahead and trying to takes steps before the announcement of the next DVC to curtail a mass buy-in of renters. They are already stopping the transfers. As I said before, I think they'll stop offering DME and DDP to anyone not traveling with a DVC member in their party. I also think they'll fix the glitch that allows transfer points to get home resort priority. If push comes to shove, they could also enforce occupancy limits on reservations made under non-member names.

Disney has two goals:
1. Get guest to stay 5-10 days on property with a rack-ate MYW package.
or
2. Get guests to purchase DVC ownership.

Disney is currently offering select "upgrades" to DVC accommodations to "try it out" when guests purchase packages (we got a card in the mail with a pin code good for an upgrade to SSR when we paid for our POR vacation). They have had similar programs in the past. They have ways for guests to "try before they buy" that involve making reservations through CRO. TPTB are not going to allow mass renting to continue because it does nothing but cut into their bottom line and work against their two main goals.

 

[waltfan1957]

One last thing...When I rented a home from this person...it had nothing to do with Ebay...I had no idea that they were on Ebay. I got it from a web site called Florida Disney Homes and they gave me that web site. The people that I dealt with were Dan & Donna Lyne. Now that I look yes, that is the same person...it is a lot cheaper on Disney than I paid for it (which bothers me and makes me wonder if that was the case wqhen I rented).

I never even heard of morphing points until this web site.

Maybe you all think that you made some catch, but you are wrong. Not that you would believe me, but you are wrong. I just do not care and will not bother anymore.

you have been caught accept it

 

[Oreo Cookie]

I have a feeling that, within a few months, DVC will announce that member perks (like being able to get the DDP) will be offered with close to the same restrictions as the AP discount - you'll be able to get them only if you are or are traveling with a blue card carrying DVC member.

I think this is the way it should have been from the beginning, member perks are for members.

 

[Oreo Cookie]

And this is even better! You seem to be the same person

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=915256

Wow who'd have thunk it??

you are quite the detective

 

[skibum]

This post is great entertainment.

 

[castleri]

Until I started reading these threads, I didn't understand it either.

I also agree with the people who said that getting the meal plan should be like the AP purchase in that you NEED to be a member. People seem to love this meal plan-I hardly ever read a dining review that didin't involve the meal plan. I think that would cut down on a lot of renting, especially during free dining periods.


I really don't understand why DVC can't track tranfers and keep the points with their respective resorts in the first place! That would solve most of the problems.

I don't understand what difference it will really make if DVC renters can't get the DDP during free dining, since they have to pay for it, except that the people who get free dining will not have as many people to vie with for ADRs. This year there are DVC people who have reservations at the value resorts to get the free dining but are not staying there- they are staying in their DVC unit on points for that period.

This may be our only trip using the DDP and we are doing it more for the convenience of not having to sort out that bill at the end of the meal or ask the server to do 5 separate ones.(our cost is over $2000). My DH and I are members- the rest of the people are family but only one lives at our address. With the all or nothing rule about DDP we would not be eligible if it worked like the AP. We also have a 2 BR and a Studio reserved so it might look like one of them is a rental since my DH and I are only listed in one of them. However if we stayed at another WDW resort we could all pay for the plan and not have any of us at the same address or better yet get "free" dining. I think trying to keep track of this might be worse than trying to keep track of those morphing points. I totally agree that Disney should be able to fix that glitch in the computer system so those points stay where they belong.

 

[CarolMN]

I don't understand what difference it will really make if DVC renters can't get the DDP during free dining, since they have to pay for it, except that the people who get free dining will not have as many people to vie with for ADRs. This year there are DVC people who have reservations at the value resorts to get the free dining but are not staying there- they are staying in their DVC unit on points for that period...(snip)...

I took NMW's post to mean that if the DP was not available to those staying on rented points, it would cut down on the number of people who were interested in renting points from a DVC member.

Best wishes -

 

[LisaS]

There's been a lot of talk about the E-Bay auctions by smw. However, these recent auctions that I looked at are for yet unspecified dates that will be determined by what the renters want, and availability. There are other sellers, such as disdvcer and boardwalkmagic, that are selling actual reservations for "sold-out" weeks. When you read thru the auctions for disdvcer, you will see that there are even more prime dates that have been reserved.

I found it both interesting and amusing the way this board connected smw to another poster on this thread. However, I find it curious that not much has been said about these other 2 commercial renters who have snagged these prime weeks to sell for profit.

As commercial renters go, SMW doesn't seem to be one of the worst ones out there if her recent auctions are any indication. She doesn't appear to be renting prebooked primetime reservations, for instance. But she has advertised on the R/T board for cheap points, in one instance stating she has a bigger group going than she originally thought and doesn't have enough points. If that "bigger group" were actually ebay customers rather than her own family, then that's dishonest. And she has been shilling for SMW's vacation home rental business on other forums here on the DIS, and for another Disney-related website that that has a big ad for that same business right on the home page. So while she may be the "best of a bad lot" compared to the bigger operators, she has been dishonest with her fellow DIS board members.

I am not against renting and if she was just renting her own points but using ebay to do so, no problem. I draw the line when people make deceptive posts on the R/T board to scoop up cheap points to re-rent, and the shilling for the vacation home business was really unacceptable.

But you're right. We should probably turn our efforts to figuring out the DIS board identities of the big ebay players! Anybody want to play detective?

 

[Lewisc]

AFAIK DVC doesn't pay Disney for DME or for allowing dining. Disney has set up DME, in part, to discourage guests from making towncar grocery stops and using a rental car to go offsite. Disney has set up dining as a way to encourage guests into staying on site. It gives a lot of food but also gets the guest to commit money.

There really isn't any other reason for Disney offering DME or MYW Dining to DVC guests;members or not. I can't picture Disney trying to differentiate between stays by members, members immediate family or renters. A more likely "solution" would be to just exclude all point stays from those programs. AFAIK MYW Dining was the first package offered to DVC member staying on points.

The issue isn't renters the issue is owners who book prime weesk on speculation. That's not even the problem so much as members who seem to have figured out a way to circumvent the 11 month home resort rule. THAT'S THE REAL COMPLAINT.

 

[tmt martins]

But you're right. We should probably turn our efforts to figuring out the DIS board identities of the big ebay players! Anybody want to play detective?

Well we know the SMW is a player here on the DIS and they have not even tried to hide who they are and what shills they use.

They own MANY DVC contacts and yet still ask for points on the cheap for family. They also have a web-sight listed and several vacation homes as well up on E-bay.

This is SO commercial it's not even funny. The question is whats DVD and DIS going to do about it.

 

[salmoneous]

AFAIK DVC doesn't pay Disney for DME or for allowing dining.

Anyone know for sure. I've seen a number of posts on perks stating thye didn't think DVC isn't charged for them. But I'm assuming members can see most of what expenses go into dues, and that at least a few of you guys have gone through the numbers. Is there are charge anywhere for DVC, DME, AP discounts, etc?

 

[diznyfanatic]

Or maybe not, maybe they have had distressed points transferred into their account and laundered them for their rental purposes. Until recently I did not understand this process and now that I do it infuriates me! But it also infuriates me that Disney is unable/unwilling to rectify this situation by fixing their transfer tracking system.

So, when you combine "point morphing" with commercial renting, that is what is causing the majority of booking problems? Do the points being transferred in assume the home resort of the account they are being transferred into, rather than retaining their original home resort?

We closed on our first contract in the beginning of June and pretty much immediately added on and began to attempt to make reservations for our upcoming trips during the last week in October and for New Years Eve and Day and the first week of January.

I realize those are mega peak times and we got a late start due to the timing of when we closed, but out of 10 days we were needing, 5 of those were just days shy of being booked 7 months in advance, and only 2 of those days (right in the middle of course) were able to be booked at either one of our home resorts, for any type of room at all.

Two more of those days haven't come through at all for ANY room at ANY property. We are currently still waitlisted for New Year's Eve and New Year's Day for any resort.

We were able to piece together via waitlist for a 1 BDR all five nights of our October trip at OKW, which we also enjoyed very much, it would have just been really nice to be able to stay at our BWV home during F&W.

Like I said, I'm anxious to see what we will be able to book when we are able to take advantage of the full 11 month window for BWV and VWL.

 

[cslittle999]

Disney has two goals:
1. Get guest to stay 5-10 days on property with a rack-ate MYW package.
or
2. Get guests to purchase DVC ownership.


Disney is currently offering select "upgrades" to DVC accommodations to "try it out" when guests purchase packages (we got a card in the mail with a pin code good for an upgrade to SSR when we paid for our POR vacation). They have had similar programs in the past. They have ways for guests to "try before they buy" that involve making reservations through CRO. TPTB are not going to allow mass renting to continue because it does nothing but cut into their bottom line and work against their two main goals.

Another goal of Disney's is to keep you on-site. If you have the dining plan you are less likely to go somewhere off-property. It is not a coincidence that attendance is up at WDW but down at Universal.

The upgrades to SSR also allow Disney to rent out the POR room again. It is easier to fill a moderate than a deluxe if they are looking to maximize the number of people staying on-site.

 

[LisaS]

So, when you combine "point morphing" with commercial renting, that is what is causing the majority of booking problems?

It's hard to say how big a factor point morphing is since only Disney knows how widespread the problem is. It is going on and it does contribute to the booking problems, especially when the people doing it are prebooking primetime reservations at the smaller resorts.

It's possible that by allowing only one transfer per use year, Disney can more easily track the home resort of transferred points and reduce the morphing problem. I would prefer to see them fix the problem properly rather than restrict honest DVC members from making the sort of transfers they occasionally need to do.

Do the points being transferred in assume the home resort of the account they are being transferred into, rather than retaining their original home resort?

Yes that is the problem. Some posters have stated that there is some sort of notation made in the account of the person receiving the points, but if MS doesn't notice this there is nothing in the system to prevent those points being used at the 11-month window.

 

[keys2kingdom]

There's been a lot of talk about the E-Bay auctions by smw. However, these recent auctions that I looked at are for yet unspecified dates that will be determined by what the renters want, and availability. There are other sellers, such as disdvcer and boardwalkmagic, that are selling actual reservations for "sold-out" weeks. When you read thru the auctions for disdvcer, you will see that there are even more prime dates that have been reserved.

I found it both interesting and amusing the way this board connected smw to another poster on this thread. However, I find it curious that not much has been said about these other 2 commercial renters who have snagged these prime weeks to sell for profit.

On a side note, I received an email of a posting to this thread that was done yesterday, and it named several people that post on this board and are said to rent commercially. This person also stated that DVC has them on a "watch list". Several hours later I received another email of a posting that said "What ever happened to today's post from the person that called out some fellow DISers as abusers to the system. It named names and was gone an hour later. Maybe the Rentees have more pull then we all think." This person was right, that 1st post is no longer listed, as far as I can see. But I know it did exist because I have it in my email.

Oh believe me I'd LOVE to call out disdvcer!! Her auctions especially irk me as a BCV owner. I've been watching them lately and it's really an outrage. boardwalkmagic is the other one I've been watching so it's funny you should mention those two. I think the reason smw got so much attention was just because she had the nerve to post in this thread. Of course maybe disdvcer and boardwalkmagic have too........hmmm.......

 

[Deb & Bill]

You know what might be nice is for DVC to accept special requests for member to transfer more than once a year. The member would have to be staying with the large group in at least one of the villas and all villas would have to be for the same dates. If the member did not show up to stay in the villa, the member could be back charged rack rate for the villas that they had reserved. Or after they transferred the points into their account, they did not use them for a single stay (multiple villas), the points would be cancelled. Or if the names got changed to non-member (other than family members), the points would be cancelled.

I bet there would be all sorts of problems, but it might get around the concerns some members have with the one transfer in or out a year when they want to do a one time or infrequent large family event.

 

[Mike]

The question is whats DVD and DIS going to do about it.

Very good question. I think there is enough evidence in this thread for a moderator to take action against one certain poster ..... or would that be two certain posters