DVC resale changes coming!?!

I think what hurt Disney direct purchases is when Disney stopped exercising ROFR and resale prices dropped...I am shocked that BLT isn't 125+ on resale market...

Prices didn't drop because ROFR stopped. Prices dropped because the housing market crashed, Wall Street crashed, millions of people lost their jobs and hundreds of DVC contracts were put up for sale.

I remember a time in late '08 - early '09 when The Timeshare Store alone had 250-300 listings. There was no logic in DVC spending millions of dollars to prop-up the value of a product which had no buyers at higher levels.

Economically DVC is like every other timeshare these days. They thrive on the uninformed buyer. As owners we're fortunate that DVC contracts actually maintain SOME resale value. You could go onto eBay now and buy substantial contracts with Bluegreen, Wyndham and many others for a couple hundred bucks. Good resorts...good systems...good contracts. There just isn't enough resale demand for the owners to see any return when it's time to sell.

But those timeshare systems keep building and keep selling.

DVC isn't much different. Between the promo videos on Resort TV, sales kiosks, billboards, bus signs and other forms of advertising, they plant the seed while families are having a "magical" time at the Disney parks. Folks go to the sales pitch and hear about how they can lock-in years of savings with a DVC purchase. Before they know it, they're signing on the dotted line.

Really all of the above is true...it just so happens that there's an even cheaper way of buying which isn't covered in the official sales pitch.

As for ROFR, that may have delayed the inevitable but it would have cost Disney a handsome sum of money. There were just too many contracts and not enough buyers to sustain an artificially high price point.
 
And finally, the idea that people who own at the ghetto resorts (as some BLT owners view them) are "taking advantage of Disney" is absurd. They are not exploiting loopholes or using their points in ways that were not intended by the program in the first place. Owning particular home resort points confers certain advantages, and people ought to evaluate those before purchasing. If some later regret their decision and believe they overpaid, Disney shouldn't exact retribution on their behalf so they can feel better.

I own at SSR and love it. It's the only place I stay. It has the location I like and I don't use my "cheap points" to sneak into BLT. It's all personal preference. I am not a huge Magic Kingdom fan (nor a fan of high rise resorts) so BLT holds no appeal to me.

Plus SSR has the Treehouse Villas which are amazing.

It's all personal preference.
 
Disney gets points back other ways than ROFR. They foreclose on people who don't pay their dues and also some owners simply give back their contracts if they can't financially handle them anymore.

So the number of points Disney ROFRs is a small percentage of the totall number of points it gets back every month.

Yes..and if someone would please sell or default on their March year VGC points I'd appreciate it :)
 
Screwing your customers is never in the best interest of the business. It could appear to be in the near term. But it never really is.

this is part of what makes timeshares complicated.

if you buy and own DVC, you are their customer and they (in my experience) treat you extremely well.

if your circumstances change and you need to sell, though, you are competing with their sales team...and when things get adversarial between you and the mouse, the mouse typically wins.

disney was different (at least they acted differently) for a long time, but things have changed. and for me, that makes me a lot more careful in recommending DVC.

So... .. would you guys consider buying resale "now"..? even if there arent real changes in place??? maybe that's an entirely different post or poll.? :rolleyes1

i'm with the guys who would be MORE tempted by resales if the bottom drops out. and buying resale "now" means i won't lose as much if i have to sell.

(full disclosure: my other timeshare cost me a dollar on ebay...less than that, really, since i only paid 1/2 the first year annual dues.)

IMO, you'd have to be ignorant to pay full price to buy direct knowing that DVC will take steps to cripple your contract and make it less valuable if you need to resell...
 

That sounds about right. But let's paint an accurate picture, here.

When the Q&A begins, I would estimate that 6-8 people immediately line up to ask questions. Then slowly others begin to filter to the microphones as lines get shorter. After 30-45 minutes they announce that only a few more questions will be accepted.

There are not long lines of individuals who are abruptly turned away. The Q&A is not arbitrarily shut down after a short period. And execs have always made themselves available for one-on-one interaction after the formal meeting ended. The same will be true this year.

Unless folks are hoping to have their questions cheered by a room full of members, there isn't really much changing. If an owner wants to request different lamp styles in the villas, instead of walking up to a microphone stand she can mention it personally to Claire Bilby during the reception.

I love picking out your posts in threads like this. So many posts are all based on speculative uninformed emotions (that are toned as if they are facts) while you spew out nothing but reality.
 
Will be interesting to see if they can actually restrict any grouP of owners to just staying at their own resort as I thought it was the resort that belonged to the "club" allowing everyone one to trade. One problem this could cause is that more people could trade into a resort then trade out, thus shutting out those owners with restricted trading from using their points anywhere.

And if this did come to pass and resale prices plunged, then I'd look at buying even more points. I'd gladly stay at any of the onside resorts if somewhere want to sell them to me for a huge discount to current resale prices. Could have a bad effect on off-site resorts.
Legally they can't for existing club resorts and they can't have separate priority windows either. What they could do is create a separate parallel system with that restriction and include all unsold points even at existing resorts in the new system. This is exactly what Marriott has done the last 2.5 years.

Note, I haven't gone through the entire thread yet.
 
Funny. I haven't seen Dean jump in here and that's not like him. Is he sick? Anybody know? :lmao:
On a cruise, just got back last night and trying to get caught up on all things, work first. BTW, cruising out of Tampa was much nicer and easier than out of Canaveral.
 
Dean said:
On a cruise, just got back last night and trying to get caught up on all things, work first. BTW, cruising out of Tampa was much nicer and easier than out of Canaveral.

Hope you had an incredible vacation. :-)

Sent from my iPad using DISBoards App, please excuse any typos or autocorrects!
 
Legally they can't for existing club resorts and they can't have separate priority windows either. What they could do is create a separate parallel system with that restriction and include all unsold points even at existing resorts in the new system. This is exactly what Marriott has done the last 2.5 years.

Note, I haven't gone through the entire thread yet.

Hope you had fun on your cruise.

If Disney were to create a seperate system, the problem would be having enough points in the new system to make it better for trading then the old system. How could they get enough points from the old resort and old system into the new system to make belonging to it a good deal? What did Marriott do to make that work?

Now if Disney believes that GF purchasers want to only stay there and at the POLY, then setting up a seperate system to protect them from the rest of us makes total sense. Although I do wonder why they didn't start this with the BLT.

Personally I don't think that restricting resale owners to their own resort will happen and I don't think it is allowed.
 
Maybe Disney cannot figure out the best way of doing it so they throw out a rumour and get us to come up with ideas, print them off , have a board meeting with cookies and pick the best one lol.
 
Hope you had fun on your cruise.

If Disney were to create a seperate system, the problem would be having enough points in the new system to make it better for trading then the old system. How could they get enough points from the old resort and old system into the new system to make belonging to it a good deal? What did Marriott do to make that work?

Now if Disney believes that GF purchasers want to only stay there and at the POLY, then setting up a seperate system to protect them from the rest of us makes total sense. Although I do wonder why they didn't start this with the BLT.

Personally I don't think that restricting resale owners to their own resort will happen and I don't think it is allowed.
We did have fun, thanks all.

If I were in DVD's position, I might do what Marriott did. Applied to DVC, it'd work something like this. We'll use DVD II for distinction. Basically make the new system a trust and add any new resort, plus any unsold or acquired points to it. No need for a deed change going forward and even more flexibility and control to the developer. Then create an exchange system between the 2 which they'd limit access to. They could charge a fee to participate in the new system, they could limit to only qualified points and they could give a priority in the exchange between the 2 systems to the new system. The only negatives that come to mind are tracking the exchange between the 2 and the initial setup. Then if you want direct access to the new system, you have to buy into it. If you want secondary access, you have to qualify to exchange into it and if you don't, no access to new resorts plus you have a dwindling number of villas (points) available to you at existing resorts. ROFR points would slowly convert over to the new trust system. They could prevent renting legally (maybe) and they could give priority and improved rates for the current cash type exchanges like DCL. They could also change the fee structure.
 
Maybe Disney cannot figure out the best way of doing it so they throw out a rumour and get us to come up with ideas, print them off , have a board meeting with cookies and pick the best one lol.

:rotfl2::rotfl2::rotfl2::rotfl2: Probably true! LMAO!
 
Here's some assumptions:

- DVC2 is created and it includes all futures sales
- DVC2 has a different set of rules could even eliminate renting, different fees, etc. Idea would be to eliminate all those things Disney finds annoying and hard to compete against.
- DVC2 and DVC1 can exchange points, but those point flows have to be equal. Exchange rules are set by Disney and will place restrictions on some DVC1 owners.
- Disney wants as many owners to move to DVC2 as possible so that they will be under a more restrictive set of rules.


DVC1 is clearly going to have way more points in it than DVC2 to start with. What can they do to convince DVC1 owners to join DVC2. As an owner I would want to belong to the pool with the most points in it. I bought were I like to stay and where I don't mind staying, so I'm not going to pay any fee to stay somewhere else.

I could see this turning out to be a disaster like the OKW extention as most owners could end up giving it a pass as they are happy with what they currently have. And given what a mess the OKW extension was for them I'm not inclinded to believe they always know what they are doing, so they could end up doing something that was stupid!

Will be interesting to see what happens and regardless of what does I'll enjoy my trips to my home resorts.
 
What I don't understand is why, if Disney doesn't like competing with the resale market, they don't just buy up everything in their ROFR. I'll bet the competition from the resalers is their main concern-no business likes competitors that may take away their potential customers. For example, I'm a potential customer looking for 100 AKV points. I just got a card from DVC offering me this "great" incentive of $700 off + a $500 gift card if I buy through them at $135/point. So that would be $13,500-$1200=12,300. Then I look at the resale market-Hmmmm, AKV points are <$70/point or a total of $7000. Even considering higher closing costs through resale, I'd be saving about $5000 by going resale. Now, tell me that Disney will ROFR anything I don't buy through them, and this customer may rethink who I buy from.
 
What I don't understand is why, if Disney doesn't like competing with the resale market, they don't just buy up everything in their ROFR. I'll bet the competition from the resalers is their main concern-no business likes competitors that may take away their potential customers. For example, I'm a potential customer looking for 100 AKV points. I just got a card from DVC offering me this "great" incentive of $700 off + a $500 gift card if I buy through them at $135/point. So that would be $13,500-$1200=12,300. Then I look at the resale market-Hmmmm, AKV points are <$70/point or a total of $7000. Even considering higher closing costs through resale, I'd be saving about $5000 by going resale. Now, tell me that Disney will ROFR anything I don't buy through them, and this customer may rethink who I buy from.

Even Disney does not have unlimited cash reserves to buy up resales. Especially with the Aulani mess that they are having to cover.
 
Here's some assumptions:

- DVC2 is created and it includes all futures sales
- DVC2 has a different set of rules could even eliminate renting, different fees, etc. Idea would be to eliminate all those things Disney finds annoying and hard to compete against.
- DVC2 and DVC1 can exchange points, but those point flows have to be equal. Exchange rules are set by Disney and will place restrictions on some DVC1 owners.
- Disney wants as many owners to move to DVC2 as possible so that they will be under a more restrictive set of rules.


DVC1 is clearly going to have way more points in it than DVC2 to start with. What can they do to convince DVC1 owners to join DVC2. As an owner I would want to belong to the pool with the most points in it. I bought were I like to stay and where I don't mind staying, so I'm not going to pay any fee to stay somewhere else.

I could see this turning out to be a disaster like the OKW extention as most owners could end up giving it a pass as they are happy with what they currently have. And given what a mess the OKW extension was for them I'm not inclinded to believe they always know what they are doing, so they could end up doing something that was stupid!

Will be interesting to see what happens and regardless of what does I'll enjoy my trips to my home resorts.
IF something along these lines were to happen (not saying it will, just discussing one possibility), there are many options. Sure DVC I would have most of the points initially but would stagnate at that point then contract (?slowly vs moderately). All new resorts and all new points (even in existing DVC resorts) would be in DVC II. As ROFR points convert over and as DVC I owners qualify to either convert over or have access, DVC I inventory dwindles as does the number of villas available for a given time. Certainly IF the system were created that allows an exchange between the 2 systems they would have to be equal to a degree but one could always have priority over the other and the new system always gets the priority as with Marriott's trust points system.

There are many ways they can entice members to sign up to convert or qualify to exchange into the new system.

  • Better fees
  • Better exchange rates to cash type exchanges (or even no access for DVC I)
  • More and better RCI access (free exchanges)
  • Access to new resorts and converted portion of existing resorts
  • The ability to make resale points qualified.
  • Threat of a one time offer
  • Many possibilities to use points for other things (pay dues, tickets, etc).
  • Remove options and add fees to existing DVC I members (a major likelihood in such a change if it were to happen)
  • Better wait lists
  • Better banking options
  • VIP systems
  • Dedicated reservation line and staff

The list could get much longer as we add to it. As I noted, essentially every item I've mentioned is already in play for one timeshare system or another that I already own. I would agree it could be a disaster if they try to do such like they tried to sell HH & VB, they'd have to change their sales model, tour current owners, get more aggressive getting people to tour and more pushy in the sales process.

What I don't understand is why, if Disney doesn't like competing with the resale market, they don't just buy up everything in their ROFR. I'll bet the competition from the resalers is their main concern-no business likes competitors that may take away their potential customers. For example, I'm a potential customer looking for 100 AKV points. I just got a card from DVC offering me this "great" incentive of $700 off + a $500 gift card if I buy through them at $135/point. So that would be $13,500-$1200=12,300. Then I look at the resale market-Hmmmm, AKV points are <$70/point or a total of $7000. Even considering higher closing costs through resale, I'd be saving about $5000 by going resale. Now, tell me that Disney will ROFR anything I don't buy through them, and this customer may rethink who I buy from.
Both because of cash reserves and because they make far more money on new sales which actually cost them less than the acquisition costs would be for ROFR.
 
DVC II = ALL Direct Sales
DVC I = ALL Future Resales

Remove all restrictions on all resales up to the new start date. Done.
 
DVC II = ALL Direct Sales
DVC I = ALL Future Resales

Remove all restrictions on all resales up to the new start date. Done.
Legally you wouldn't be able to convert from one system to the other based on the resale route. DVC could elect to allow it and thus allow it for themselves when selling existing resorts retail. So you couldn't take someone who had the new system and force those points resale to the old system, it's not legally possible to do so. What you can do is control resales differently with a new system and you can make resale points have no access to the new system. You then create a separate resale market for the new system and it begins again to a degree.
 











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