DVC Renting - What is happening?

[Sandisw]

I was looking into renting DVC points after our trip was cancelled for this March- as it is so much less expensive. BUT, due to what is occurring right now and all the uncertainty surrounding this, we felt it was worth the extra money to book direct cash reservation with Disney. I do NOT want to take any risks that all the thousands of dollars we would pay might be at risk if our trip was cancelled again. Plus my daughter is a FL resident so I am hoping we can get some additional discounts. We rescheduled our trip to mid November.

The only thing I will add is that renting is a private transaction, and anyone renting certainly can ask for specific information to be included in a contract that spells out what would happen if the reservation can not be fulfilled due to the actions of a third party, such as a resort closure, or travel bans,

I think you are going to start seeing that as well, But, nothing is going to be as good as cash with Disney because they offer changes and cancelations with a lot less risk!

 

[Divaofdisney]

The only thing I will add is that renting is a private transaction, and anyone renting certainly can ask for specific information to be included in a contract that spells out what would happen if the reservation can not be fulfilled due to the actions of a third party, such as a resort closure, or travel bans,

I think you are going to start seeing that as well, But, nothing is going to be as good as cash with Disney because they offer changes and cancelations with a lot less risk!

Yes my point exactly! I am not in any position to put thousands of dollars at risk even if the discount is good. I would rather pay more to ensure I have peace of mind and a bit more flexibility should something else happen.

 

[bumbershoot]

how the heck is a pandemic not allowed as a reason for cancellation on Disney trips?

With most DVC rentals they are not allowed to be canceled or changed for ANY reason.

And this is what you agree to when you rent in that fashion.

If you buy trip insurance for DVC rentals, that insurance won’t cover you for this reason. Now if you break your pelvis in a car accident and can’t go, it would cover that. There are many things it would cover you for. But pandemics aren’t one is them.

My basic Google University knowledge believes that if you purchased insurance before the end of January 2020, you have a right to dispute this claim.

No. Pandemics aren’t covered, period.

I am aware of that, but insurance companies have to have "foreseen date" to apply to claims. If you purchased insurance before the pandemic was considered "foreseen," then there is a right to a claim. Again, I've just done some basic reading, but if I had 4-5 figures in a loss, I'd invest $300 in a lawyer to consult on the topic.

You are confusing specifically named things that aren’t covered, and pre existing conditions.

Pre existing conditions mean medical conditions in a person that were new or had new changes within a certain time before buying the insurance. Not conditions of the world.

Hope you don’t have a pre-existing condition. Hope your family doesn’t have pre-existing conditions.

As long as those conditions haven’t changed at all in the time period (as stated by insurance) before you bought the insurance, it would be covered.

Going back to my married life... I was the caregiver for my MIL. She had a multitude of conditions. If I wanted to go on a trip and bought regular trip insurance, I’d check the lookback period. Let’s say it’s 90 days. So I book a trip and buy insurance. And either she falls ill and we cancel, or she falls ill while we’re on the trip and we have to go home. Let’s say it’s a stroke, which she has a history of. As long as she’s had no change in condition or medication 90 days before I bought that insurance, and her doctor will fill out the paperwork, I can claim it.

But if she had a stroke or changed medication because conditions were worsening 40 days before I booked and bought insurance, it won’t be. They lookback that amount of time.

And that’s why some insurers sell products with a PEC waiver. It waives the lookback period.

 

[DebbieB]

I'm just spitballing and know nothing about travel insurance, but is a pandemic considered "an act of God" perhaps? Maybe not the right term for this, but I know that in homeowner policies (for example), if there is a weather event causing damage, many insurance policies will not pay due to it being an "act of God" - something out of human control that can't be predicted or prevented.

I work in property casualty insurance and have never seen that specific exclusion wording (Act of God). It's too ambiguous. It is more specific - flood, earthquake, earth movement are standard exclusions. Unless excluded, windstorm is covered, that could be called an Act of God. Lightning also is covered.

 

[toontoy]

I would make sure you read the contract fully. If the business/hotel is closed you do have recourse as the contract is not able to be fulfilled. The contract is a 2 way agreement. The member that makes the reservation is using RTU (right to use) points and is subletting the reservation points to be used during the predetermined dates. Some may say you are renting points which is true but its to secure a sublet reservation obtained by the member. The underlying points reflect part but not all of what is offered and is often determined the value to price such agreement.

 

[wilbret]

With most DVC rentals they are not allowed to be canceled or changed for ANY reason.

And this is what you agree to when you rent in that fashion.

If you buy trip insurance for DVC rentals, that insurance won’t cover you for this reason. Now if you break your pelvis in a car accident and can’t go, it would cover that. There are many things it would cover you for. But pandemics aren’t one is them.



No. Pandemics aren’t covered, period.



You are confusing specifically named things that aren’t covered, and pre existing conditions.

Pre existing conditions mean medical conditions in a person that were new or had new changes within a certain time before buying the insurance. Not conditions of the world.



As long as those conditions haven’t changed at all in the time period (as stated by insurance) before you bought the insurance, it would be covered.

Going back to my married life... I was the caregiver for my MIL. She had a multitude of conditions. If I wanted to go on a trip and bought regular trip insurance, I’d check the lookback period. Let’s say it’s 90 days. So I book a trip and buy insurance. And either she falls ill and we cancel, or she falls ill while we’re on the trip and we have to go home. Let’s say it’s a stroke, which she has a history of. As long as she’s had no change in condition or medication 90 days before I bought that insurance, and her doctor will fill out the paperwork, I can claim it.

But if she had a stroke or changed medication because conditions were worsening 40 days before I booked and bought insurance, it won’t be. They lookback that amount of time.

And that’s why some insurers sell products with a PEC waiver. It waives the lookback period.

Thanks for the in-depth reply (seriously). I just googled again, and found several instances citing the foreseen date being established in late January for most travel insurance providers, and it seems there is some leeway. I don't want to debate, because, frankly, I never purchase travel insurance or extended warranties. You seem like you know your stuff, but I'd still chase the claim if it were me, and it was thousands of dollars. This is uncharted territory. Pandemics don't always = complete shutdown of countries.

 

[bumbershoot]

Right now, everyone chasing refunds is *causing* destruction. Everyone else is angry with neighbors playing basketball or walking on beaches; I’m watching my fellow man destroy airlines and hotels and Airbnb’s etc by wanting money back rather than credit. (While also assuming they’ll be able to book cheap a year from now)

If you rent Dvc points from an individual then insist on all your money back, you are causing harm to another person. If that person has expiring points and literally cannot rebook you, you have put ALL the risk on that person. They paid for the points and for the dues. They won’t be able to use the points or rebook them for someone else. They are losing money. You are demanding that you be made whole while they lose everything related to the rental.

If you’ve used an agency like David’s, if you are made whole then you damage the owner *and* the rental company.

If you bought the insurance and somehow work your way into a refund through them, it chisels away at the travel insurance company’s ability to exist in the future.

I personally feel that the insurance claim won’t work.

And I personally feel that this is a time for compromise with Dvc rentals. If your owner literally cannot rebook you, meet in the middle. If you used an agency, meet in the third (so to speak). No one will be made whole but no one will be out everything. The renter is not the most important person. The owner is not the most important person. The agency isn’t, either. ALL parties have been damaged by this. I think compromise is best.

Easy for me to say, of course...I had no travel plans set. Who knows if I’d have been able to put my money where my mouth is.

But there IS a reason why I never rented points from someone, and just went straight to purchasing DVC. I had zero interest in a contract with no cancellation or changes possible. And I already understood points well enough to know that the owner doesn’t have a lot of room to maneuver even if a change is possible.

 

[DebbieB]

Right now, everyone chasing refunds is *causing* destruction. Everyone else is angry with neighbors playing basketball or walking on beaches; I’m watching my fellow man destroy airlines and hotels and Airbnb’s etc by wanting money back rather than credit. (While also assuming they’ll be able to book cheap a year from now)

If you rent Dvc points from an individual then insist on all your money back, you are causing harm to another person. If that person has expiring points and literally cannot rebook you, you have put ALL the risk on that person. They paid for the points and for the dues. They won’t be able to use the points or rebook them for someone else. They are losing money. You are demanding that you be made whole while they lose everything related to the rental.

If you’ve used an agency like David’s, if you are made whole then you damage the owner *and* the rental company.

If you bought the insurance and somehow work your way into a refund through them, it chisels away at the travel insurance company’s ability to exist in the future.

I personally feel that the insurance claim won’t work.

And I personally feel that this is a time for compromise with Dvc rentals. If your owner literally cannot rebook you, meet in the middle. If you used an agency, meet in the third (so to speak). No one will be made whole but no one will be out everything. The renter is not the most important person. The owner is not the most important person. The agency isn’t, either. ALL parties have been damaged by this. I think compromise is best.

Easy for me to say, of course...I had no travel plans set. Who knows if I’d have been able to put my money where my mouth is.

But there IS a reason why I never rented points from someone, and just went straight to purchasing DVC. I had zero interest in a contract with no cancellation or changes possible. And I already understood points well enough to know that the owner doesn’t have a lot of room to maneuver even if a change is possible.

I think there is room for compromise. David holds back 30% until checkin, I think they should at least return that if the member cannot rebook. The member will still be covered for their dues.

i‘ve seen people post on Facebook that there’s no reason to buy DVC, rent and you will not have the long term commitment. This has brought out the risk. It will be interesting to see if contract wording is changed and if people will be shying away from renting.

 

[nkereina]

I work in property casualty insurance and have never seen that specific exclusion wording (Act of God). It's too ambiguous. It is more specific - flood, earthquake, earth movement are standard exclusions. Unless excluded, windstorm is covered, that could be called an Act of God. Lightning also is covered.

I’ve seen it vary between carriers. Natural disasters would be considered an act of God, but if they specify it rather than use that phrase, it’s the same thing. The point is that they are excluding it because it’s out of human control or prevention.

 

[DebbieB]

I’ve seen it vary between carriers. Natural disasters would be considered an act of God, but if they specify it rather than use that phrase, it’s the same thing. The point is that they are excluding it because it’s out of human control or prevention.

They exclude it because it could be a huge loss involving many insureds that they may not be able to pay out. We call it Catastrophe coverages. Lightning hitting your house is out of your control but it’s covered.

 

[conandrob240]

I’d contact the agency or DVC owner ASAP if you haven’t already. The hard part with DVC points is that they must be used by a certain date or they are gone and unable to be used in the future so the renter would be out of money and the owner would be out of points.

Yes, this is why the decisions are going to be so varied. Right now, DVC is screwing over owners. If a trip got cancelled due to closure, they are only refunding points back to current use year. What this means is if you have a cancelled March trip and he owner was using April use year points, those points are essentially fully lost because they had to be used by March 31, 2020. Hopefully, DVC will come up with a more fair solution that the owners can then offer renters.

 

[fsjking]

I think there is room for compromise. David holds back 30% until checkin, I think they should at least return that if the member cannot rebook. The member will still be covered for their dues.

i‘ve seen people post on Facebook that there’s no reason to buy DVC, rent and you will not have the long term commitment. This has brought out the risk. It will be interesting to see if contract wording is changed and if people will be shying away from renting.

The second they return $1 to the owner, they accept responsibility and will have to do a full refund. Unless they get the renter to accept a partial refund in writing, they can't give anything less than all of it back.

 

[suemom2kay]

I think it is on a case by case basis. I rented out points this year and had a total of 6 nights (studios) rented out in May. Because I am going back to the ICU (my current job is on hold due to the virus), I will not be out of work at all. I was able to refund my renters so I reached out to them. At the moment, they are waiting to see what happens, but it makes me happy to help when I can. No one could have predicted this situation. I don't think it is ok to demand, but asking doesn't hurt. I also was fortunate because I have a February use year so there is a lot of time to re-rent those points or use them myself later in the year. Definitely, case by case.

 

[conandrob240]

If your use year allows it, I 100% think you should refund or let them reschedule. But what if DVC holds to current policy and all points are basically lost because the use year ends during or right after closure?

 

[suemom2kay]

If your use year allows it, I 100% think you should refund or let them reschedule. But what if DVC holds to current policy and all points are basically lost because the use year ends during or right after closure?

Then nope. I wouldn’t refund unless member services would reallocate my points. That’s why it’s case by case.

 

[conandrob240]

I’m going to be in this position to the tune of 500 points (I’m the owner)

 

[suemom2kay]

I’m going to be in this position to the tune of 500 points (I’m the owner)

That stinks. I hope it works out.

 

[conandrob240]

Me too. I hate for either of us to lose out on so much $.

 

[nkereina]

They exclude it because it could be a huge loss involving many insureds that they may not be able to pay out. We call it Catastrophe coverages. Lightning hitting your house is out of your control but it’s covered.

I understand. That's exactly my point - a natural disaster is an act of God. Although they may not use that phrase, that's how its explained when its not covered (been there). Lightning may be an act of God too, but it would presumably only impact one person.