DVC points subject to change?

[BoardwalkSuzy]

Have been getting lots of answers on how the DVC works here on the Disboard, and lots of information on room types and amenities of resorts. However, does anyone know exactly what is subject to change with the DVC points you purchase? I've received confirmations that there are a fixed number of points that can be sold per resort, and fixed use years per contract. But from what I've seen historically, don't seem to see other aspects of the points to be fixed, and seem to be subject to change.

Now I'm finding documentation that banking periods have changed over the years while owners in the DVC owned their points. For instance, it used to be 100% banking of points possible up to 6 months, then changed to 8 months allowed to bank points. Then I see reallocation of points based on season, weekend use, etc, that can make it difficult for someone to figure out how many points they need to buy up front. Valet was included then taken away. As one DVC owner said on forum, Disney Giveth, and Taketh away.

What other changes can Disney make to the DVC points we purchase? What aspects of DVC ownership can they not change? As more and more DVC resorts are built, and more DVC purchase opportunities pop up, I am guessing there will be an increasing demand for more rotation through these resorts. This means owners of points may want to bank more years of points in order to be able to stay in more of a variety of resorts, go on DVC cruises, stay in Hawaii, etc.. I'm already seeing DVC owners owning at 4 home resorts!

Is Disney allowed to change the banking policy to add or reduce years that points can be banked? Can Disney take away the option of banking and borrowing entirely? Is it possible, seeing that the contract reads with a particular interest in a particular unit at a resort, that we could someday be reduced to use of just that unit? I was told by sales that I was buying points, but I see on contract partial ownership interest of unit 16A at BWV's.

If they added a few more years of the ability to bank points as an option, it would mean a family with annual vacation could rotate through say 4 resorts within 4 years. As it is, it looks like annual vacationers with 1 week vacation plans are pretty much limited to alternating between 2 resorts with the limitation of 1 year of banking points.

I'm currently in contract, but my sales contract only references number of points, use year, the resort - BWV, and what particular unit at the resort I have an interest in. We are also looking into purchasing at some other resorts. Please share what legal terminology is on your DVC contract that may indicate which items and policies in the contract are subject to change.
me DH DS6 DD4

 

[WebmasterDoc]

You might want to contact your guide at DVC and request a POS (Public Offering Statement). It will provide the legal description of what is covered in the program. When we purchased we had our attorney review the document and advise us what we getting involved with. The documents do offer information about what rights/responsibilities DVC has and what rights/responsibilities members have.

Basically, DVC has the ability to change almost everything. We are guaranteed the ability to use our points at our Home Resort and that's about it. If something should occur where DVC is no longer the managing entity, we would not be able to exchange into other DVC resorts (Owners do have the ability to replace DVC as management). DVC can suspend banking and borrowing without consultation with members.

There are limitations regarding annual fee increases without a vote (15%) and limitations regarding point re-allocations (like we've seen for 2010 and 2011), but perks and non-DVC point charts may be changed without warning or input by members. DVC can impose minimum stay requirements if necessary.

I would certainly suggest getting and reviewing the POS before purchase. There are many, many complaints on these boards made by people who had expectations of DVC based soley on internet comments and , in some cases, responses to their vague questions by DVC guides (and, in some cases, vague responses to their specific questions by DVC guides). The documents will take precedence over anything expressed verbally - but obviously the courts would always have the final say in any dispute.

 

[jackskellingtonsgirl]

DH and I got quite a shock when they reallocated the point structure. Neither one of us can determine HOW this happened, but we were BOTH under the impression (the WRONG impression) that the resorts could not increase the number of points required for a particular stay.
For example, if it took X number of points for a studio at AKV in a particular season, as long we were looking at that same category of room, in that same resort, during the same season the points required would never go up. WRONG!! They CAN go up! And they DID! And for us to both have that exact same impression we are pretty sure somebody must have told us that.
We mistakenly understood that they could juggle the points required between weekday and weekend as long as the total for the week didn't change. Nope. The total for the week can absolutely change. That has been our biggest shock so far, but we have only owned DVC for 2 years.

 

[Dean]

They can reallocate the total points but not change the amount for the entire resort for the year. This is really only an issue if one is looking at partial weeks and/or lower seasons and even then, only if you cut it too close or don't have a back up plan. They could eliminate or change banking and/or borrowing on their whim. The current system is better for some and worse for others but overall it's likely better for the membership the way it is now than the way it was before.

 

[Chuck S]

I agree with Doc to obtain a copy of the Public Offering Statement, and read through it. Somewhere in there it will allude to points needed for each room type in the event of a maximum reallocation, meaning if the did completely away with weekeday/weekend point differences and eliminated booking seasons.


Also, as Doc said, there is very little about the program that can not be changed. That said, we truly have seen relatively few changes to the program itself ove the years. There was a reallocation in 1996, 2010 and 2011, so they are fairly rare...but we they did it two years in a row.

Perks, like valet parking, dining, shopping and perk ticket discounts change, and can be eliminated at any time.

Banking and borrowing can disappear, but I truthfully would only expect that in extreme cases, like if the Olympics or other huge event came to Orlando, or in the last couple of years of our resort contracts.

Some people like the new banking windows, others don't, but overall it probably has had little real impact. I know before the change there were a lot of theads here because people were confused by the old system.

 

[Deb & Bill]

In the past they had a lottery system for the Christmas/New Year's holiday time. You couldn't book it at 11 months out, but had to put your name into the lottery. They have since eliminated the lottery, but they could go back to it if they decided it was necessary.

 

[drusba]

Some to be aware of:

1. Total points for the resort cannot change. The exception to that is that they can always build more units at the resort and thus increase total points that way. Point "shifting" is permitted, meaning they can raise points for days or seasons or type of rooms as long as they lower them for other days or seasons or other type of rooms by an equal amount so that total points remain the same. In the last two years there was a planned point shifting mainly by lowering weekend nights while raising weekday. They were trying to correct a problem that has actually existed virtually forever in that weekday demand greatly exceed weekend because the weekend points were so high. Likely that particular planned shift is over. There are two limitations to a point shift, one definite, one more general. The first is that they cannot change any particular day by more than 15% (up or down) in any given year. Because of that 15% rule they took two years to complete the planned point shifting because the total over two years was more than 15% (but was no more than that in either year). The second is that they need to base point shifting on what they see in historical patterns of use and make any changes in the best interests of the members to accomodate shifting demand. That is what they perceive to be the bests interests of the members as a whole not any one individual member. As a result, if you buy points to go particular days of the year and base your decison as to what you buy on the current point charts, you are doing so at the risk that the points for those particular days may change (up or down).

2. You currently have a home resort reserving right of 11 months out and a four month period before others can also reserve at the resort at 7 months out. Those reserving periods can be changed but you must always have at least a one month home resort reserving right, e.g., they could change the reserving period to 8 months for home resort while 7 elsewhere. This is one that has not changed and doubtful it will simply because they perceive the current system works. One that can change and did change is defining what they meant by 11 or 7 months out since for years it was 11 (or 7) months before your date of departure from WDW and now you can reserve up to 7 nights 11 (or 7) months out before your date of arrival Note, they can also suspend your home resort right by setting up "special season" reservation periods for very high demand times. Older members will remember that Christmas week used to be a system where up to two years in advance you could put in your request for a reservation at any resort, home or otherwise, and then a year before they would start calling those in the order of getting on the list to see if they still wanted that reservation and do that until the time was taken. There was no home resort priority to that, i.e., as long as you were on the list before someone else you got to reserve at any resort before they did. If an olympics ever comes to Orlando, they could do something like that again. They do not have much incentive to do special seasons because they ended the Christmas one because it was too much work for MS.

3. "Perks" can be taken away or changed. Thus, things like the AP disount, any dining or recreational discounts, golf discounts, having a member cruise earmarked for members, others, can come and go.

4. You currently can reserve any number of days. They retain the right to set a minimum number of consecutive days that you would be required to reserve, not to exceed five.

5. Banking and borrowing as it now exists is a right that can be "suspended" but not permanently taken away. They do not define for how long it could be suspended. They cannot arbitrarily suspend but can do so if they believe it is needed to improve the quality of the vacation ownership plan and furthers the collective enjoyment of the members of the use of the rooms. That is kind of legal gobbilygook but essentially they need to act in the bests interest of the members as a whole and probably won't do it unless it gets out of hand, e.g., for some reason so much banking and borrowing is going on that many can't get any reservations in a given year. They cannot change the one year rule, e.g., they cannot start allowing members to bank from one use year into two years later. (Note, they could extend banking periods for trading out to cruises or other non-DVC resorts because they can essentially set any rules for trading out since that is something separate from any rules applicable to DVC resorts, e.g., they wouldn't even call it banking but instead that you can just use points now and any you get in the next two years to make a cruise reservation now for three years from now.)

6. The time by which you have to bank and particular rules for doing so can change. Thus, it is currently all points by 8 months into use year, it was different before.

7. You have a right to rent your interest to others and that right cannot be taken away because that would be an improper "material" change to a fundamental right. However, you cannot rent for "commercial purposes," a broad and vague term aimed mainly at preventing frequent renters who are essentially in the business of renting and they can thus set restrictions to the rental right which they have done in the past, such as (a) the rule DVD adopted that if you make more than 20 reservations a year you will be presumed to be violating the commercial purpose rule and not allowed to make more (unless you can actually show you are not violating the rule) and (b) limiting anyone's ability to be an associate member on anyone's contract to four contracts; that one was aimed at persons who were doing renting of members' interests by the members naming them as associate members who could then make rental reservations using the members points.

8. There is no guarantee that you will continue to be able to exchange out to non-DVC resorts such as through an exchange program with RCI or any of the Disney collections. Their only requirement is to use reasonable efforts to have programs. The points needed for any such programs can be changed annually and thus they can rise.

9. Landscaping can change, pools can be remodeled, stores and restaurants can be shut down, changed or new ones added. At AKV, there is no guarantee that animals will remain. Having Disney World and its parks is not guaranteed and it could shut down.

10. You could have special assessments if needed. However, DVD is required to follow rules that make sure dues realistically reflect probable costs for the year. Also, except for a special assessment for a disaster which is not adequately covered by insurance, DVD can do what it has traditonally done which is guarantee annually there will be no special assessments and that the dues estimate (except for property taxes) that you receive at the start of the year will not change during the year and if costs exceed dues DVD pays the difference. Under the law, in return for that, DVD itself does not have to pay the share of dues for interests it owns (i.e., that is its incentive for making the guarantee and Disney always retains a 2% to 4% interest in the units sold).

11. You can lose your interest if your home resort suffers destruction and cannot reasonably be repaired or rebuilt with insurance proceeds, although you would be entitled to a share of insurance proceeds that are paid for the loss. Your ability to reserve at your home resort and at others can be suspended during the time of repair after a disaster. If the government exercises eminent domain of your home resort you can lose your interest, although be entitled to a portion of the price it pays.

12. You can lose your ablity to reserve at non-home resorts if your resort ceases to be a DVC resort by the members' voting to throw out Disney as the managing entity, by a termination of the DVC Resort Agreement (the agreement with Disney that leases the property to DVD and can be terminated if the property is not kept up to expected Disney-like conditions, something that cannot be deemed to occur as long as a Disney entity is running it), or by the relevant Disney entities going bankrupt.

13. As far as reserving at your home resort they cannot change the system to limit you to reserving only the unit in which you own an interest. That would require a total change in the type of system they registered for with the state and thus a material change that the members themselves would have to vote on to approve.

 

[Dean]

In the past they had a lottery system for the Christmas/New Year's holiday time. You couldn't book it at 11 months out, but had to put your name into the lottery. They have since eliminated the lottery, but they could go back to it if they decided it was necessary.

I think the only time they used the lottery was the turn of the century. They did use the special season preference list a few years before that. Both are written in to the POS as options.