DVC Point Rental Primer

[diznyfanatic]

Renting DVC points can be a wonderful way to enjoy a Disney vacation. However, as with anything that requires money to be paid upfront, renting points takes some work ahead of time to protect yourself and minimize the inherent risk of these types of transactions.

If you are not willing to take the appropriate steps and do the homework necessary ahead of time, and before any money changes hands, renting in general is probably not for you.

In order to utilize this thread to it's fullest potential and not attempt to deal with several issues within one thread, perhaps it would be a good idea to limit the questions, comments and ensuing discussion to only the purchase of DVC rental points side of the transaction.

Reading and using the following guidelines is a great start to protecting yourself and your funds when considering renting DVC points.​

As always, it is up to each individual to remain vigilant and proactive during the transaction so that you receive and enjoy the Magical Disney DVC Vacation you expected.

For anyone who might be too afraid to offend during a rental transaction, this thread will hopefully provide all the courage and excuse needed to do as much as possible to protect yourself beforehand.

1. Do your homework FIRST
2. Check the owner's previous posting history by clicking on their user name and then Find More Posts. Are they brand new to the DIS? Have they posted anything other than "Points For Rent" threads? Are they responding to rental inquires within their thread for everyone to see? Have they responded timely and accurately to your questions?
That is certainly not to say that anyone with a low post count is untrustworthy. That would be completely untrue and unfair. But it CAN be used as ONE tool in conjunction with the other guidelines if there are OTHER red flags or warning signs present.
3. Know who you are dealing with. Confirm ownership and check the Orange County Comptroller's website here Orange Country Comptroller if necessary. If the last name of the owner is hypenated, the search works only on the second last name
4. Require a written rental agreement
5. Require references and check them - Personally, if I am renting from someone on the DIS, I would want DIS references since they can be easily verified.
6. Enforce your rental agreement
7. Never use Western Union in a rental transaction. There are too many other options.
8. Verify all contact information prior to remitting any funds
9. Know beforehand the busy DVC seasons so that you know whether or not it is even likely a reservation would be available
10. Understand the basic dynamics of how DVC works. A DVC reservation is very different from a regular hotel reservation and limitations/restrictions on the owner may make cancellation and rescheduling difficult or impossible
11. Post or PM an established owner with your questions if unsure about something
12. Listen to your gut
13. Be prepared to pursue whatever legal avenues are available if something does go wrong.

I'm sure there is more, but ultimately, remain vigilant and take the steps necessary to protect yourself first.

I'll be happy to update the thread with other's suggestions and contributions as well. If we all work together, hopefully these guidelines will go a long way to ensuring a successful and magical vacation for everyone involved.

 

[Granny]

Thanks for pulling this together. I've bookmarked it to be able to reference new renters (owners and prospective reservation purchasers both) to this thread.

For what it's worth, there was also a great response to a thread I started a while back about sample rental contracts. It might be nice to link to in your primer, or just keep as part of this thread. Here's the link... [thread=895654]Sample DVC Point Rental Contracts[/thread]

 

[diznyfanatic]

Thanks Granny for the helpful contribution. As I'm leaving for OKW tomorrow, I need to get busy, but will try to do what I can to incorporate everyone's contributions and suggestions when I return.

 

[JimMIA]

Great thread and I'm glad to see Granny jumping in so quick. He's one of the ones I told you will bookmark this and make it available to future posters.

I'll offer a couple of ideas -- not so much rules or "red flags," but just general thoughts on renting.

Understanding a DVC Rental
We don't often see problematic DVC rentals, and when we do they are usually misunderstandings. Unfortunately, a lot of those misunderstandings come from lack of knowledge about how DVC works and how that differs from a traditional hotel reservation -- or a DVC reservation made through Disney CRO, for that matter.

You would think that the DVC owners all have perfect understanding of their accounts, and it's the people renting reservations who don't get it. You'd be dead wrong. Too often, neither party really understands the situation well enough to be able to anticipate problem areas.

If you are renting from a DVC owner, you don't need to fully understand all of the nuances of DVC ownership. But what you do need to understand clearly is this: There are serious limitations, restrictions, and penalties on the owner in certain cancellation scenarios. Those problems vary from owner to owner, from rental to rental, and you have no way of knowing what kind of restrictions the owner is under. If you get in a position where you have to cancel a rented ressie, the owner may not be able to help you.

You don't need to know all the nuances of DVC, but you need to CLEARLY understand what your DVC owner's cancellation/rescheduling policy is for your particular reservation. An owner who tells you, "Don't worry, if there is a problem, I'll work with you." is speaking in code. That's code for "I don't have a clue."

Be sure you fully understand what will happen if your plans change. That is critical, and if you are not comfortable with the answer, a DVC rental is probably not for you. DVC rentals do not work well for people whose plans are not firmly set.

Also understand that the reservation remains entirely under the control of the owner until your checkin, and you cannot make any changes to it. Any changes, and any additions like the Dining Plan or Magical Express will have to be made through Member Services by the owner.

Fraud
As luck would have it, my background is in law enforcement (retired now) and my specialty for the last 15 years has been fraud prevention, detection, and investigation. So hopefully I can offer some advice in this area.

The first thing you need to know is that fraud almost never occurs in DVC rentals. In the entire history of the DIS Rent/Trade board, I am only aware of four fraud situations, three of which unfortunately victimized people renting DVC ressies from an unscrupulous person. The other case was some time ago and involved an owner who got defrauded by someone renting from them.

Rather than bore you with all sorts of do's and don'ts and "red flags," I'll just give you two concepts to remember:

1. "Fraud looks a lot like stupid" That's a quote from a good friend of mine, and it's my favorite tip about fraud. If something doesn't look right, feel right, sound right, taste right, or smell right...that does NOT mean it's fraud, but you'd better perk up. If something seems "stupid," keep asking questions until you are completely sure you understand it, and you are completely satisfied that it's okay.

2. "If you are not comfortable, walk away." Nervousness and discomfort are our body's physiological way of telling us something is not right. It's a protection mechanism that all humans have had since the dawn of time. Uneasiness may not be an accurate indication that something is wrong...but those feelings are amazingly accurate indicators that something is not right for you. If you get those feelings about any financial transaction, just walk away. Yes, it is possible you will miss an opportunity, but there will be other opportunities. You will never get hurt walking away from any transaction you are not comfortable with.

Good luck. Do your homework well, and have a great DVC vacation!

 

[Granny]

Outstanding post, Jim. Very nicely organized with wonderful advice that applies beyond the immediate issue of DVC rentals.

 

[keys2kingdom]

This is a GREAT thread. Any chance of getting it made into a sticky for the R/T board? There are going to be a lot of skittish people over there looking for guidance.

 

[mowog]

How about adding an additional number to the list. Be sure to ask the DVC member if they can rent for a lower cost per point . I'm doing my first rental and using the money for a cruise next year. With the cost of the points and calls we have to make to sign the renter up for reservations, calls for Magic Express, calls to change names, etc., I'm thinking $11 per point is fair.

I lurked when in the past some DVC owners suggested a general rise in rental prices. I recently PMd a renter desiring points for next year. The reservation couldn't even be made at the 11th month window until the end of this month. I offered the renter points at $11 per point, an amount I feel fair considering the cost of new points and the ability to guarantee the reservation with the 11 month advantage. The renter PMd back saying that $10 seemed standard and that was what he was looking for. The ironic thing is that the renter has mentioned in new post that he has had no luck trying to find points for his trip!

Now I don't want anyone to get cheated, but if you want 100% safety book through Disney for rack rate. I can understand points ready to expire going for bargain rates, but since when is the DVC boards pro renter instead of pro member? (broad statement, not totaly true, suitable for flaming but please don't ) With the exception of the recent post of a renter cheated by an obvious premeditated scam most rental complaints seem to be from members having trouble with renters.

Sorry to vent

 

[VogelFamily]

Hello Everyone. Returned from the trip of a lifetime only 4 hours ago. Just checking my personal email, hadn't even been on the DIS yet and discovered by accident that a lot has been going on while I was away. I am just beginning to read some of the information and I will post on appropriate topics as I come across the questions but I wanted to say this thread is a great idea and contains so much useful information in an organized format. My end result was positive but not without extreme stress and difficulty. I would definitely do many things differently but want to emphasize that I thought I had asked all of the right questions and followed appropriate precautions, but being a non-owner, it really is impossible to know what questions and precautions to take in the first place. This will help.

Jim, your post provided much insite. I see clearly now why your efforts to assist me were so beneficial. You had never enlightened me to your background but I see that you were the ideal individual to help me with my issues. Thank you again..............Heather

 

[JimMIA]

just bumping for new folks

 

[greenban]

Hi Guys and Gals, here is a DVC rental primer I often supply to newbies with their first rental, hopefully this will be helpful to this thread. Please note that these are my statements and views, others may disagree.

-Tony

[snip]...
I'm gonna assume that you know nothing about the DVC, so if some of this is too basic, sorry yet again !

The DVC is a timeshare based on a point system instead of a week system. That means points can be used at any of 7 WDW area DVC for reservations up to 7 months in advance, and only at the home resort up to 11 months in advance. Various resorts, room sizes, and times of the year influence how many points a night may cost. Friday & Saturday nights are very expensive in points, usually costing the same as, Sun, Mon, Tues, Wed & Thurs nights combined. Thus to save 45-55% off disney's rack rates at www.disney.com, you, the renter would need to avoid a Fri & Sat stay. However, if you stay a full week, you can still easily save 25-45% off Disney's rack rate.

ETA.... There are currently 5 DVC resorts in Walt Disney World. Old Key West (OKW-1991), Boadwalk Villa (BWV-1996), Villas at Wilderness Lodge (VWL-2000), Beachclub Villas (BCV-2002), and Saratoga Springs Resort and Spa (SSR-2004). There is a DVC restort at Vero Beach Florida (VB-1995) and Hilton Head Island, South Carolina (HH-1996). Points can also be used for some other Disney properties and the Disney Cruise Line, but in my opinion these latter choices do not make financial sense....

Points have a birthdate (The first day of the Owner's Use Year) and an expiration date, 1 year later. They are usually not good outside of these dates. This is why most Owners have a no cancellation, or change policy. Their points might not have enough life left to be re-rented, or your new vacation dates may be outside of the point's UY. Or there may be no availability for your new dates.

There are some modifiers to Use Year Life. Certain amounts of points can be banked into the next Use Year, or Borrowed into the current Use Year from the Next Use Year. However, once points change their UY, it is permanent, and they can not be banked or borrowed again.

Also, if a vacation is cancelled less than 31 days in advance of arrival, the points become 'Holding Points' which have such severe use restrictions, that they become nearly worthless. Thus most Owners require final payment between 60-90 days of the start of your vacation.

Those are the Owner's risks, along with any damage that you may do to the property.

For the discount, you the Renter take the most risks. Until you physically check-in, the Owner controls the reservation, even when it is in your name. An Owner could cancel your reservation, and steal your money. Disney will not get involved. This risk is what gets you the discount, and renting is not for everyone. (However, an escrow account, Paying via PayPal or Credit Card gives you several layers of protection for at least getting your money back).

Also, all requests, even Non-Smoking, are requests only and not guarenteed. You could request a 3rd floor room 11 months before check-in, and get assigned a ground floor room on the day you actually check-in. However, I have never had a guest receive a smoked in room when non-smoking is requested.

You do not get daily maid service at the DVC (Many owners prefer not having Mousekeeping trapsing through their rooms, but you may want daily maid service). You get your trash emptied and new towels on day 4 of a vacation, and if you stay 8 or more days, on day 4 you get a full cleaning, and day 8 would be the trash & towel service, and then a full cleaning on day 12 and so on. (FWIW, we always decline our full cleanings). However, you can pay for maid service, if you wish, and schedule it for whenever and how many days you would like, but I have never had a renter do this. Studios have access to free laundry machines near the pools, and 1 BR and larger units have a washer and dryer right in the room.

Now the next step:

If you want to rent from me, I'll need the full names of everyone in the room, the ages of any children, special requests like Non-Smoking, A particular View, Highchair, etc. I'll also need a mailing address for you copy of the contract, and a contact telephone # for you as well.

I'll call MS (Member Services) when they are next open (M,T,W,F: 9:00 AM - 5:30 PM Eastern, and Thursday until 7:00 PM (and now Saturday 1PM-5PM) and make the ressie in your name. Then I'll email you a copy of the contract, and your reservation #. You then have 7 days to get a 50% non-refundable payment to me. Once I recieve the offical Disney Confirmation Letter I will forward it to you, this averages three weeks from when the reservation is made.

I accept personal checks, bank checks, money orders, PayPal and Credit Cards via PayPal without a surcharge.

I expect the final payment no later than 60 days before your vacation. Like most Owners I have a no cancellation policy, however, if I can re-rent the points or reschedule your vacation (due to a change in dates on your end), I will refund your money, less a $50.00 'service' fee. (provided I get the same rate, oterwise, you will get a partial refund).

In the three years I have been renting and out of over # DVC vacations, no one has ever lost money with me. However, if I can't use the points, you could be in a use-it or loose-it situation.

If you are very nervous, I have many references and you could use an escrow service. However, any and all charges and fees associated with the escrow service would have to be paid by you.

You can usually rent poinst for $10-$14.00 each. Experienced Owners with a proven history and good referrences (like myself) can and do get more ($12.50) than a newbie, with no referrences or prior rentals who will often rent at $10.00 or so. The DVC system is complex and takes some time to understand, and many rental difficulties or misunderstandings are from good people with good intentions, who misundertand the subtleties of the system.

You can also find distressed points in the $8.00 to $9.00 range, but you must be very careful that these points won't expire before your travel dates, and are not Reservation Points which can not be used for DVC vacations.

And be careful, like life, any DVC deal that seems to good to be true most likely is, and it is sad to try and save $100.00, and get ripped off entirely.

Normally for vacations in 2007 I charge $##.## per point.
For vacations in December 2006 I charge $##.## per point.
And for vacations between now and December 2006 I am charging $##.## per point.

I hope this helps, and please feel free to ask any more questions, or voice any concerns that you may have.

I can also be reached at work (---) -------- most M-F, 11A-5PM EDT.

Thanks for your interest,

-Tony

---------@excite.com

...[/snip]

Hope this is helpful and appropriate to post on this thread.

-Tony

 

[Granny]

Not trying to clog this thread with posts that don't add value, but wanted to say that I think that is a great post Tony!

At some point, maybe we can consolidate all the information and segregate it like JimMIA did into sections.

In any event, this thread is a definite "must read" for anyone involved in point renting, including owners. Thanks again to diznyfanatic for initiating it!

 

[Lasrnw]

Postitive Transactions REQUIRE great communication! I had a wonderful experience recently and would like to share. Phone numbers were exchanged almost immediately. A written contract was sent by the points owner right away. I signed the contract and mailed it back out with the check payable to the same name that appeared on my caller ID and the same name that was on the contract. By my mistake, I never put a stamp on the envelope and it got returned. I immediately called the Point Owner and explained and backed it up with an e-mail of apology. Then I overnighted the check so that the Point Owner knew that I was not pulling something. When the check was received we did a joint call with MS and when the confirmation was received by the Point Owner she not only mailed it promptly but E-mailed me a copy so I knew it was on the way. She even followed up with an e-mail when we returned to see if we had a great time. The transaction took time but legitimate transactions should. There was nothing more I could have asked for.

 

[BurkeTribe]

One thing we have done as rentees is to offer the pointowner-renter an absolutely-no-refund-no-cancellation-after-payment agreement, as long as the renter will agree to at least change the name on the reservation for us, for an extra very small payment ($20-50, depending on if we also ask for another resort check), if we request it. This may be standard with many pointowner-renters, I don't know. We always agree to pay in full at least 90 days from the reservation start (if it's not a last minute deal), and usually pay in full upon receipt of the original DVC confirmation letter. Thus if something major comes up, we can try to "rerent" the reservation to cut our losses, and the pointowner doesn't ever have to worry about refunds or rerenting/banking/losing points, etc. , he/she just agrees to a little extra phone time and the postage to mail the new confirmation to us.

 

[JimMIA]

just bumping for newbie renters

 

[kimberh]

How about adding an additional number to the list. Be sure to ask the DVC member if they can rent for a lower cost per point . I'm doing my first rental and using the money for a cruise next year. With the cost of the points and calls we have to make to sign the renter up for reservations, calls for Magic Express, calls to change names, etc., I'm thinking $11 per point is fair.

I lurked when in the past some DVC owners suggested a general rise in rental prices. I recently PMd a renter desiring points for next year. The reservation couldn't even be made at the 11th month window until the end of this month. I offered the renter points at $11 per point, an amount I feel fair considering the cost of new points and the ability to guarantee the reservation with the 11 month advantage. The renter PMd back saying that $10 seemed standard and that was what he was looking for. The ironic thing is that the renter has mentioned in new post that he has had no luck trying to find points for his trip!

Now I don't want anyone to get cheated, but if you want 100% safety book through Disney for rack rate. I can understand points ready to expire going for bargain rates, but since when is the DVC boards pro renter instead of pro member? (broad statement, not totaly true, suitable for flaming but please don't ) With the exception of the recent post of a renter cheated by an obvious premeditated scam most rental complaints seem to be from members having trouble with renters.

Sorry to vent

The last thing we need to do, is let the renter tell us what to charge. I had that happen this week. My price is set. If they don't agree with it , then they need to keep looking for the cheaper points. Now, with the one transfer in force, we are very limited in how many we can rent. Some renters require numerous calls. I now see why Member Services cut the calls out. This is a great Thread.

 

[Iott Family]

Thank you for this thread.......Im now feeling more secure as a newbie looking to rent! I now know what to look for more so than I did 10 minutes ago before reading this!

 

[leonger]

Thanks for this thread. It is very informative, as is this entire site!

 

[magerzoo]

This is great info! Thank you very much!

 

[DVC_Couple_PA]

I just wanted to point out that those who own a Vero Beach or Hilton Head won't show up in a search of the Orange County Comptroller's website, as those properties are not in Orange County.

I just don't want to see any of those owners get mistakenly "red-flagged" because they did not show up in a search.

 

[PrincessTaylorsMom]

Thanks so much for this thread. I haven't posted much and I'm thinking of renting some points for a trip next December. This information is like gold to me!

Karen