DVC point balancing 2022 vs 2021

Yes, lots of chatter how the new charts will be released in a month. I look to see the fall time frames adjusted up with summers continuing to decrease. Changes for months June 2022 through December 2022.

They're still bound by the fact that 2022 rates have to fall within 20% of 2021.

Considering the variance averages 0.24% across all resorts, the necessary adjustments are extremely modest. For instance, the poly 2022 charts are overstated by about 19k points (out of 4 million) compared to 2021. With 380 total villas at the resort, they can balance things out by reducing the cost of each room by just 1 point on 50 nights. That's it.

They could accomplish this by lowering 1 point per night across one season from the current 2022 charts. Or they could adjust certain nights (weekday / weekend) across several seasons, adjusting bungalows more or less than studios, creating another season with modestly lower cost for select dates, etc.

Saratoga Springs is off by 55k points but it has 900 rooms. So again, lowering the cost by just one point on about 60 nights fixes the problem.

I doubt they would go to the trouble of rewriting the entire charts to raise costs on some nights. That's a task better reserved for 2023.

The greater challenge now is modifying computer systems and website to account for a mid-year change in point values.
 
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I reached out to DVC through some official channels and haven't received a response yet. :rolleyes1 I have no reason to doubt posters here, so my assumption is yes. But until it actually happens, seems like there's always some risk of being derailed by corporate red tape.

This does go beyond a corporate red tape level though as the charts they are using for 2022 violated the POS. They really need to make the change.
 

We've tried to keep things as simple as possible for now and directed folks to this thread if they want to take more of a deep dive down the rabbit hole. Would appreciate any feedback and if you see something you feel needs better clarified or an error let me know.

This will be discussed on next Monday's DVC Show. I thought I rambled for a while which is why I think it's important people read the article and follow up here in this forum for a better understanding. That said, I think we got some of the primary points across while also being respectful of DVC for listening to everyone who has reached out regarding the changes. In the end, we made no real accusations other than a continued call for DVC to be more transparent with this process. We shared some of the facts and data explored here and now just wait and see if DVC acts as they have said they plan to.

I listened to the episode...and LOVED it! There was a fair balance that was maintained. Although, tell us how you really feel about Terri Schultz. LOL.

At the end of the day, shows like this are what need to be done to keep DVC honest. Memo to DVC: your members are NOT idiots and they are watching what you do. Do the right thing for your MEMBERS and you won't have to deal with issues like this.
 
My suspicion is that they're waiting until AFTER the Easter 2022 holiday time period, since that was the largest increase of point costs, and Spring Break/Easter is a very popular time of year to travel to Disney, whereas the Summer - which they might further reduce - is not.
I totally agree. The argument will be based on the popularity of that travel period and the fact they didn’t want to adjust too many people’s trips. However, I think the real motivation would be that it is the most lucrative time for them. I’m glad I already planned to reschedule my 2022 trip from March to June. 😂
 
I'm bummed they are only adjusting for later in the year. What cost me 246 for 10 nights at Poly in March 2020 will cost 262 points in 2022. March has always had wide-open availability-wise at Poly (due it already being the second highest season)... so I don't know how raising the points even more "increases availability" and helps balance demand. But I digress, I will overall be happy if they make sure the total points get back in line with what is outlined in the POS.
 
Membership has a partnership with DVC in the sense that the members of the Board of Directors are all DVC owners. However, they're all also Disney employees, fairly high ranking DVC officials. Draw your own conclusion there.

Crony Capitalism at its most blatant. The supposedly independent board draws their salary from the very organization they are supposed to be independent from. We’d be better off if the board members were chosen by lottery from the general membership, a person chose could decline so we’d have no one serving if they did not wish to. 18 month staggered terms
 
Hi all, I spoke with member services about the 2022 point chart and on topics beyond the scope of this thread (Resale restrictions/ Legacy 14/ DVC 2.0/ fascinating discussion on Direct owners vs Resale owners).

With respect to this thread, I want to share that member services was extremely polite and did a great job of listening to my concerns. It wasn't a scheduled call, so I didn't have all the math metrics in front of me, but I think I was able to convey the most salient concerns around the fiduciary stewardship and POS interpretation that exceeds what is allowable in the document. The call was recorded, and the associate mentioned that what I spoke on would be raised up. I also mentioned that I would be sharing the conversation at a high level. (Since the boards are monitored, I welcome DVC to reach out to me again if it would be helpful to clarify aspects that have been raised here or during the call.)

Here's some take-aways for future calls:
- There is no official correspondence on the adjustment to the 2022 point charts. Any conversation around chart adjustment is speculative. I left the call without any indication an adjustment was going to occur.
- The person that I spoke with was not aware of the initial concerns I raised, and I wasn't going to challenge that statement. (nothing to gain there but defensiveness) There was a particular amount of time devoted to understanding how I learned about the possible point chart adjustment and other concerns. I mentioned that the point inflation, non-neutral chart for 2022 can be calculated by any single owner- these concerns do not require an online community to discover or define them.
- I believe I made myself clear that base year and point chart exceeds what is allowable in the Public Offering Statement. (POS) I also mentioned that any chart adjustment, should it occur, would demonstrate that DVC management is willing to examine their broad interpretation. Without that, I believe DVC interpretation needs to have a third party arbiter examine whether there has been over-reach in their execution.
- I do believe these concerns were heard with respect, and I don't know whether my input will have any impact. But, I also think the person I was speaking with wasn't the person to have the "tough talk" about proper stewardship. That's ultimately for a regulatory body to do. I did thank DVC for the point extensions during the pandemic; it's important to be balanced and celebrate what is going well.
- Moving forward, members are requested to call member services to express concerns. Especially for folks like me that may want to be better prepared with math/figures on hand. I asked whether the hold times are back to normal. (I had emailed, because I didn't want to take time away from other owners that had urgent matters who needed the few staff that were available.) It sounds like there's more availability for service by phone.

Please don't take this report as an excuse to bash DVC, the inflammatory rhetoric is unhelpful. We can express our disappointment, concern and even outrage in a way that raises awareness and/or brings solutions, rather than just ranting for the sake of getting an adrenaline high.
If you really feel that strongly that business is being conducted in a way contrary to the contracts, then 1) bring it up with DVC, give them a chance to learn and correct/adjust course. Maybe we do this as a community, as a business, as individuals. If not resolved, then 2) bring it to a Florida regulator or arbiter. Suggestion: If you really need to use an exclamation point in your language or rhetoric, use that energy in a way that will actively bring resolution to your concern.
 
Hi all, I spoke with member services about the 2022 point chart and on topics beyond the scope of this thread (Resale restrictions/ Legacy 14/ DVC 2.0/ fascinating discussion on Direct owners vs Resale owners).

With respect to this thread, I want to share that member services was extremely polite and did a great job of listening to my concerns. It wasn't a scheduled call, so I didn't have all the math metrics in front of me, but I think I was able to convey the most salient concerns around the fiduciary stewardship and POS interpretation that exceeds what is allowable in the document. The call was recorded, and the associate mentioned that what I spoke on would be raised up. I also mentioned that I would be sharing the conversation at a high level. (Since the boards are monitored, I welcome DVC to reach out to me again if it would be helpful to clarify aspects that have been raised here or during the call.)

Here's some take-aways for future calls:
- There is no official correspondence on the adjustment to the 2022 point charts. Any conversation around chart adjustment is speculative. I left the call without any indication an adjustment was going to occur.
- The person that I spoke with was not aware of the initial concerns I raised, and I wasn't going to challenge that statement. (nothing to gain there but defensiveness) There was a particular amount of time devoted to understanding how I learned about the possible point chart adjustment and other concerns. I mentioned that the point inflation, non-neutral chart for 2022 can be calculated by any single owner- these concerns do not require an online community to discover or define them.
- I believe I made myself clear that base year and point chart exceeds what is allowable in the Public Offering Statement. (POS) I also mentioned that any chart adjustment, should it occur, would demonstrate that DVC management is willing to examine their broad interpretation. Without that, I believe DVC interpretation needs to have a third party arbiter examine whether there has been over-reach in their execution.
- I do believe these concerns were heard with respect, and I don't know whether my input will have any impact. But, I also think the person I was speaking with wasn't the person to have the "tough talk" about proper stewardship. That's ultimately for a regulatory body to do. I did thank DVC for the point extensions during the pandemic; it's important to be balanced and celebrate what is going well.
- Moving forward, members are requested to call member services to express concerns. Especially for folks like me that may want to be better prepared with math/figures on hand. I asked whether the hold times are back to normal. (I had emailed, because I didn't want to take time away from other owners that had urgent matters who needed the few staff that were available.) It sounds like there's more availability for service by phone.

Please don't take this report as an excuse to bash DVC, the inflammatory rhetoric is unhelpful. We can express our disappointment, concern and even outrage in a way that raises awareness and/or brings solutions, rather than just ranting for the sake of getting an adrenaline high.
If you really feel that strongly that business is being conducted in a way contrary to the contracts, then 1) bring it up with DVC, give them a chance to learn and correct/adjust course. Maybe we do this as a community, as a business, as individuals. If not resolved, then 2) bring it to a Florida regulator or arbiter. Suggestion: If you really need to use an exclamation point in your language or rhetoric, use that energy in a way that will actively bring resolution to your concern.
Thank you for sharing your correspondence. I think it helps keep us all on the same page and more informed when communicating with DVCM ourselves. Appreciate it.
 
I am new to DVC and these boards, but thank you to everyone for sharing your experience in regards to the point charts. I greatly appreciate everyone spending their time to ensure that our points are not being devalued and to communicate these concerns back to MS. :)
(It took me a long time to read this entire thread, but I am glad I did!)
 
I am new to DVC and these boards, but thank you to everyone for sharing your experience in regards to the point charts. I greatly appreciate everyone spending their time to ensure that our points are not being devalued and to communicate these concerns back to MS. :)
(It took me a long time to read this entire thread, but I am glad I did!)
Welcome :welcome:
 
If you really feel that strongly that business is being conducted in a way contrary to the contracts, then 1) bring it up with DVC, give them a chance to learn and correct/adjust course. Maybe we do this as a community, as a business, as individuals. If not resolved, then 2) bring it to a Florida regulator or arbiter.

To this point, I would personally argue that there's no harm in filing a complaint with the state. State regulators exist to help resolve disputes of this nature. If the complaint is legitimate, I can think of nobody better positioned to recognize its validity and pursue a remedy on behalf of owners. (They're also going to quickly recognize when a complaint is invalid or unreasonable.)

By contacting DVC, maybe there's some element of "I'll give them a chance to correct first." But I would argue that you're swimming upstream. DVC is far more likely to take action based upon an inquiry from government regulators than a complaint from a member--or two members, or twenty members.

http://myfloridalicense.custhelp.co...da-condominiums,-timeshares,-and-mobile-homes
 
To this point, I would personally argue that there's no harm in filing a complaint with the state. State regulators exist to help resolve disputes of this nature. If the complaint is legitimate, I can think of nobody better positioned to recognize its validity and pursue a remedy on behalf of owners. (They're also going to quickly recognize when a complaint is invalid or unreasonable.)

By contacting DVC, maybe there's some element of "I'll give them a chance to correct first." But I would argue that you're swimming upstream. DVC is far more likely to take action based upon an inquiry from government regulators than a complaint from a member--or two members, or twenty members.

http://myfloridalicense.custhelp.co...da-condominiums,-timeshares,-and-mobile-homes
This is the same feeling I had. When you feel wronged by an organization, do you complain to the organization that wronged you? Maybe initially you do in order to give them a chance to "make it right", but then at some point it probably makes sense to take it to someone impartial. Someone on this thread mentioned that DVC being the ones to decide what is right or wrong during issues like this is kind of like the "wolves guarding the henhouse". I would agree with that, especially if DVC does indeed have a financial interest in making the decisions they made.

Another big thank you to everyone on this thread for sharing your knowledge...it truly is an amazing community!
 
DVC is far more likely to take action based upon an inquiry from government regulators than a complaint from a member--or two members, or twenty members.

2 dozens people, by DVC statement, caused the 2020 point charts rollback, so we can be effective. But I agree that the state would be the next step. I was preparing a letter of complaint, until I read they were going to revise the point charts. I say this to give them credit they're willing to listen members' feedback. Many company just persevere in their mistakes.
That's why a few posts back I suggested to have a members' representative in the DVCMC board. It is beneficial for both DVC and members to open a stable communication channel.
 
That's why a few posts back I suggested to have a members' representative in the DVCMC board. It is beneficial for both DVC and members to open a stable communication channel.

This is an excellent idea. Especially as we get closer to 2042, when members will have many more questions and concerns, having a member representative with ZERO financial interest in Disney beyond their DVC membership (I don’t even want a stockholder) would be extremely beneficial for members’ peace of mind AND for Disney’s bottom line, if they want those expiring members to renew at a MUCH higher price (of course it will be) or buy a future product.
 
In reading the previous 10, or so, posts, I want to commend all of you on how tactful you are being in your communications with DVC. I am not sure I could do that.
I am totally fed up with the way DVC has handled this situation, especially with the way they have dragged this out with no official communication and constantly changing responses. That said, for us DVC is still a good value and we are not planning on selling because of this, since the impact is so small for us.
From the calculations I have seen, on average it amounts to members having to purchase one OTU point per year (at the current price of $19) for every 200 points owned, so no big deal and not worth fighting over for most members. However, I can see why DVC would want to do everything it "legally?" can do not to revise the points charts. In total if all members purchased the OTU points required to make up for the increased points in the charts, over the remaining life of the existing DVC resorts (at $19 per point), it would be $72 million in additional cost to members, or stated another way, $72 million in additional revenue for Disney.
 
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