DVC point balancing 2022 vs 2021

[JOLT]

I don't think interest is fading, there are others like you who may be waiting for a response or scheduled call. I sent a follow up letter after my initial call, and more specific information from i<3riviera. Although the reallocation that DVCM has made may be within the terms of the agreement, it does not fully meet III.3.a(1) of the Multi Site POS that states the reallocations are made to further the best interest of the Club Members...... I think i<3riviera has shown that there may have been a more equitable way to do this with much less annual points added. For PVB, the latest point charts appear to add over 500,000 additional points throughout the Contract than if they stayed with the 5 season charts.

Good luck with your call next week.

You are correct DVCM has technically not done anything illegal. I just wonder for the general public what is an acceptable inflation between purchase and booking point total? I was always under the impression that there should only be minor differences with extra weekends for a higher seasons. I wish when I would have talked to them in dollars VS % because I feel like talking % make it seem like less of a big deal.

all they have to do is lump all the days Easter could fall on into 1 season.

 

[Minniemoo15]

You are correct DVCM has technically not done anything illegal. I just wonder for the general public what is an acceptable inflation between purchase and booking point total? I was always under the impression that there should only be minor differences with extra weekends for a higher seasons. I wish when I would have talked to them in dollars VS % because I feel like talking % make it seem like less of a big deal.

all they have to do is lump all the days Easter could fall on into 1 season.

I think if the general DVC population knew what was happening they would be very surprised. In the DVC Facebook groups I am in I often see people ask questions about point reallocations. The most common answer from other members is that while points can be shifted between seasons, the total overall points cannot change. I know that is what I initially believed when I bought in too. I wish I had the extensive background knowledge to share this 7 season point inflation with the Facebook groups I am in. Even if it's legal I think there would be a big uproar if the wider membership knew what was happening.

 

[drusba]

You are correct DVCM has technically not done anything illegal.

Just a note to say I do not agree DVC has necessarily done nothing illegal. Intentionally creating a chart that relies on the change of the Easter date to determine total points for a year, and choosing a base year with an early Easter date to maximize the potential variance in total annual points per year could be found to be violation of its obligation to act in the best interests of the members.

Moreover, everyone is apparently assuming that DVCM, which is the entity with the power to create point charts, could legally make the change that it did from a 5-season to a 7-season chart that made the floating Easter date of high importance and changing the base year applicable to each resort. That is not necessarily a proper assumption.

If you read the DVC Membership Agreement, DVCM is supposed to pick a base year for the particular resort from which all years are then determined (and BWV and OKW do not even have the base year concept). Nothing says DVCM can change the base year once determined. Moreover, DVCM's power to change the points required for a calendar year is limited to its power to change the points required for each use day in any particular season, and it must always equally lower points in other use days when it raises them. A complete reallocation could result in a "leveling of all seasons," with every use day requiring the same points. But nowhere in the Membership Agreement is DVCM given the power to actually do away with any of the existing seasons or create a new point chart with different seasons than the one originally created, and the absence of any such express language allowing for the addition of, or a complete change in, seasons could be found to mean DVCM cannot create the 7-season point charts but must always keep the five-season charts that existed, having only the power to shift points among those seasons.

In other words, the very act of adopting the 7-season chart could itself be illegal. DVCM has just taken advantage of the rule that points may increase annually due to "normal" calendar changes by purposefully doing away with the old charts and creating new ones that improperly allow it act like it is doing nothing wrong, but what has really occurred is that DVCM has purposefully acted to greatly increase points for many use days in many years without providing required decreases.

In any event, it is a position that should be reserved and thus members should avoid conceding to DVC that creating the 7-season point chart was legal or even "technically legal,"

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

We are just waiting for a response

 

[bobbiwoz]

We have not gotten any response yet.

 

[dismedvc]

In any event, it is a position that should be reserved and thus members should avoid conceding to DVC that creating the 7-season point chart was legal or even "technically legal,"

I agree. whether you spell it forward, backward, or sideways, this is absurd. For over 20 years this has been our fun vacation membership where total points for the year could never increase. I am disappointed it now seems to require constant monitoring to make sure "management" lives up to the "best interest of the members".

ETA: sorry for the duplicate posts. I attempted to edit this post to include additional quotes from @drusba, but in that attempt I ended up with two posts including the one below that contains all the quotes I wanted to include..

 

[dismedvc]

Intentionally creating a chart that relies on the change of the Easter date to determine total points for a year, and choosing a base year with an early Easter date to maximize the potential variance in total annual points per year could be found to be violation of its obligation to act in the best interests of the members. In other words, the very act of adopting the 7-season chart could itself be illegal. DVCM has just taken advantage of the rule that points may increase annually due to "normal" calendar changes by purposefully doing away with the old charts and creating new ones that improperly allow it act like it is doing nothing wrong, but what has really occurred is that DVCM has purposefully acted to greatly increase points for many use days in many years without providing required decreases. In any event, it is a position that should be reserved and thus members should avoid conceding to DVC that creating the 7-season point chart was legal or even "technically legal,"

I agree. In this post, I have selectively quoted from @drusba full post #243. However, from my perspective, what I have selectively quoted is the most concise and clearly articulated explanation I could have come up with regarding what DVCM management is trying to "pull". I plan on emailing the above to DVC. Whether you spell it forward, backward, or sideways, this is absurd. For over 20 years this has been our fun vacation membership where we felt, and were always told, total points for the year could never increase. I am disappointed it now seems to require constant monitoring to make sure "management" lives up to the "best interest of the members".

 

[Mumof4mice]

I emailed member services on 1/8, still awaiting a reply.

 

[Jelly563]

I don't study the point charts but I do know that when I bought VGF, most of the yr was 15 pts for a studio (higher during Easter, Christmas, NYE). You would be very had pressed to find a studio for 15 pts now.
Also, we usually travel in fall. BWV grand villas were 80 pts a night, now they are 88. I haven't searched, but I am sure, you can't get a gv for 72 pts at anytime ( if they rasied it 8 pts then they should have reduced it 8 pts). I love the product too much because it makes my family happy... but, your a fool if u think, for one second, they aren't out to chew up your points. That's a 10% boost not a 0.02% boost.

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

You are correct DVCM has technically not done anything illegal. I just wonder for the general public what is an acceptable inflation between purchase and booking point total? I was always under the impression that there should only be minor differences with extra weekends for a higher seasons. I wish when I would have talked to them in dollars VS % because I feel like talking % make it seem like less of a big deal.

all they have to do is lump all the days Easter could fall on into 1 season.

I totally disagree. It is completely illegal to inflate the point chart/deflate our points. Just because they try to justify it doesn’t make it legal.

 

[JOLT]

I totally disagree. It is completely illegal to inflate the point chart/deflate our points. Just because they try to justify it doesn’t make it legal.

Is it illegal for points to increase because of holiday and weekend movement?

If 2035 was always the base year and points purchase/booking total match than the increases are due to holiday and weekend movement.

My issue is how splitting easter is in the members best interest. I emailed dvc about inflation and base year and got a call back that night which I was not prepared for. All they really said was based on booking tend they picked the new seasons. They told me they would look into easter movement causing point inflation.

 

[DL1WDW2]

Love your signature line, btw.

I noticed a very interesting article in the most recent Disney Files magazine (published by DVC)*. There was a full page devoted to DVC resort inventory, breakage and exchanges, all under the explanation why it's easier to find availability for cash paying guests. It's worth reading, and noting what positions are defended by DVC, as well as omitted details. Considering our animated discussion so far, it makes me wonder what has been occurring to warrant this very public, assertive response.

*citation: Sakaske, Nieman and Miller, "Listening Post." Disney Files Magazine (Disney Vacation Club). Winter 2020 Vol 29 No. 4, page 12.

 

[DL1WDW2]

Makes me wonder too.

I think interest in this will become aware to each individual member as their 11 month window appears and that feeling that you can’t book as many nights is evident.
Basically calling this a Point Balance is being too polite ...point pay attention chart change is better.

And to simplify your conversation address it to
Attention We the members do not like 7 Season please return to basic 5 season. We can all commit and understand that “Declaration”...
Common sense alerts suspicion just with their simple announcement that DVC eagerly has given us new 7 seasons to enjoy ...

Another duh thought... Any lawyers out there or maybe Disney doesn’t sell points to lawyers... Feels illegal is not the Disney Vacation Club I joined...

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

Is it illegal for points to increase because of holiday and weekend movement?

If 2035 was always the base year and points purchase/booking total match than the increases are due to holiday and weekend movement.

My issue is how splitting easter is in the members best interest. I emailed dvc about inflation and base year and got a call back that night which I was not prepared for. All they really said was based on booking tend they picked the new seasons. They told me they would look into easter movement causing point inflation.

Yes. It is illegal because dvc is artificially creating a calendar in order to raise points. Disney can’t adopt the French Republican Calendar, have point costs double, and then say, oh, it’s just calendar variation. Over the last couple of years, they have MANIPULATED the calendar in such a way as to generate higher point costs.

edit to add: The trajectory is important. Dvc has established an undeniable trajectory over a few years that cannot be discounted as “calendar variation.” If there were real calendar variation, there would be barely detectable ups AND downs. DVC has established a decidedly upward movement that is becoming magnified every year.

 

[Minniemoo15]

I have sent another email off today as a follow-up to my phone call. I will report back if I hear anything. Again - I think the wider DVC membership would be very very surprised to hear this is happening.

 

[Lorana]

I am likewise awaiting a reply.

 

[Tiggerette]

Considering there is a "Listening Post" section in the DisneyFiles magazine, I wonder if that is an area we can leverage to encourage DVC to explain base year. Perhaps they would avoid having it in writing, but I'm thinking it might be a tactic to focus our separate energies/calls/emails into a media tool that DVC already uses to "clear the air."

 

[Eldon32]

I sent an email a few days ago with many targeted questions based on the analysis done here: https://www.disboards.com/threads/dvc-point-balancing-2022-vs-2021.3820183/page-8#post-62575558

This is the <sarcasm> highly detailed </sarcasm> response I received:

-------
We appreciate your interest in your Membership and taking the time to reach out to us. The feedback we receive from our Members is very important.

Each year the Disney Vacation Club Management LLC reviews nightly demand for villas at our resorts and looks for opportunities to adjust the Vacation Points Charts in order to encourage travel at all time of the year, with the goal of improving Member availability. With 7 seasons to choose from, the 2022 reallocation strategy builds upon the 2021 model to balance demand in seasons, including point increases to the Fall season and point decreases in the Summer season.

Please note these changes only affect Disney Vacation Club Resorts located at the Walt Disney World Resort.

Thank you for providing this feedback.
-------

I would be surprised if the membership ever gets an answer without the question coming from the state.

After providing some soft push-back on answering the specific questions I asked from the information compiled here, DVC management has reached out to schedule a conference call with their regulatory affairs manager and team. We'll see what they say!

 

[Mumof4mice]

Update: I've received an email from Yvonne Chang's office to schedule a phone meeting.

My impression of my call with Chang (regarding the 2020 charts) was that DVCMC was treating the calls as surveys to gauge the sentiments and understanding of the membership. Chang repeatedly iterated that (1)The 2020 charts were legal and (2) miscommunication caused our confusion.

I wonder about the logic of DVCMC trying the current tactic. Do they think that being arguably, technically legal, and broken into smaller steps, would be sufficient to obfuscate the intention of the chart manipulation?

@drusba summed it up perfectly -

Just a note to say I do not agree DVC has necessarily done nothing illegal. Intentionally creating a chart that relies on the change of the Easter date to determine total points for a year, and choosing a base year with an early Easter date to maximize the potential variance in total annual points per year could be found to be violation of its obligation to act in the best interests of the members.

I'll be focusing on the Base Year. What was it originally, past changes, does DVC believe they can legally alter BY any time, and why the base year that yields the highest point inflation was chosen. If anyone has other questions they'd like me to bring up in the call please feel free to let me know.

 

[New Mouse]

Update: I've received an email from Yvonne Chang's office to schedule a phone meeting.

My impression of my call with Chang (regarding the 2020 charts) was that DVCMC was treating the calls as surveys to gauge the sentiments and understanding of the membership. Chang repeatedly iterated that (1)The 2020 charts were legal and (2) miscommunication caused our confusion.

I wonder about the logic of DVCMC trying the current tactic. Do they think that being arguably, technically legal, and broken into smaller steps, would be sufficient to obfuscate the intention of the chart manipulation?

@drusba summed it up perfectly -



I'll be focusing on the Base Year. What was it originally, past changes, does DVC believe they can legally alter BY any time, and why the base year that yields the highest point inflation was chosen. If anyone has other questions they'd like me to bring up in the call please feel free to let me know.

Unrelated, but id love to know why not all members were treated equal when it came to extensions and exceptions during the closure, specifically grand cal. Ive been stone walled on my inquiries thus far.