DVC point balancing 2022 vs 2021

[KAT4DISNEY]

Anyone who will be having a conversation with DVC about the point charts should avoid conceding that the base year can be changed at all from the one chosen when the resort first went on sale. Moreover, owners of OKW and BWV should not concede that the concept or choice of a "base year" even applies to those resorts. (VB and HHI also have no mention of a base year in their POS's but neither of those are involved in the 7-season point chart issue which relates only to the WDW resorts.)

Does the following essentially, in a very simplified way, outline how you interpret things for resorts with the base year provision:

1 - the base year was selected when the resort went on sale and used to determine the number of points that would be declared at the resort. (That means base year and point totals are fixed to that per pretty much every document ever released and every sales pitch ever made)
2 - any reallocations ever done need to tie back to those point totals - and in that regard to the base year - but the point total first created from the base year becomes the important part and remains fixed. The base year then more or less becomes a tool to assist in doing the reallocation.
3 - the existence of a base year used to calculate the point requirements for each villa does mean that in some years the point totals required may exceed what was declared And that means not every single year will tie back exactly to the point total declared for the resort but the point totals for the nights should tie back to the base year.

Am I off base or missing something? If not then yes, the base year was fixed way back when the resort began it's declarations and could never be changed.

 

[Sandisw]

Just to update, I actually got a call back today..never been that fast..discussed things, and got answers to my questions.

I was appreciative that someone spent that much time with me regarding it all.

 

[SL6827]

So the Poly is the resort where the "cooking of the books" is the most obivious, correct? And it is because it is made up of mostly all studios, except for the bungalows, right? The other resorts are not as obivious, correct?

 

[bobbiwoz]

Just to update, I actually got a call back today..never been that fast..discussed things, and got answers to my questions.

I was appreciative that someone spent that much time with me regarding it all.

Have you had time to think about if you are satisfied that the 2022 points are in the best interest of the members?

 

[Sandisw]

Have you had time to think about if you are satisfied that the 2022 points are in the best interest of the members?

Yes, and I am. But, no need or sense to try to go into why. Between what info I have, my own interpretation of things, the great info from @drusba, and a few friends who are attorneys, things are as they should be in my eyes.

ETA: I’ll also use all this info to make sure 2023 UY and beyond continue to be acceptable versions as well.

 

[bobbiwoz]

Does the following essentially, in a very simplified way, outline how you interpret things for resorts with the base year provision:

1 - the base year was selected when the resort went on sale and used to determine the number of points that would be declared at the resort. (That means base year and point totals are fixed to that per pretty much every document ever released and every sales pitch ever made)
2 - any reallocations ever done need to tie back to those point totals - and in that regard to the base year - but the point total first created from the base year becomes the important part and remains fixed. The base year then more or less becomes a tool to assist in doing the reallocation.
3 - the existence of a base year used to calculate the point requirements for each villa does mean that in some years the point totals required may exceed what was declared And that means not every single year will tie back exactly to the point total declared for the resort but the point totals for the nights should tie back to the base year.

Am I off base or missing something? If not then yes, the base year was fixed way back when the resort began it's declarations and could never be changed.

It seems to me that this was the way point changes were explained.

All of a sudden a PhD seems to be needed to understand what’s being done with point charts.

 

[SL6827]

So was 2021 the first year with what, seven different DVC seasons? Had there always been five before? Or not? Is there anything keeping them from bumping it up to ten or twelve seasons in the future? Or 18 seasons?

 

[Sandisw]

So was 2021 the first year with what, seven different DVC seasons? Had there always been five before? Or not? Is there anything keeping them from bumping it up to ten or twelve seasons in the future? Or 18 seasons?

Prior to 2021, only 5. Nothing to prevent them from deciding more or less travel periods are needed to create charts that balance supply and demand.

There is a max allocation chart that guarantees an owner that there will be at least one use day for a certain # of points per calendar year for each room size. For example, for BLT, I think there has to be at least one day in which you can get a studio for 16 points.

 

[SL6827]

Prior to 2021, only 5. Nothing to prevent them from deciding more or less seasons are needed to create charts that balance supply and demand.

They can even make a chart with no seasons and everything the same cost every night of the year if that is what is believed is best and in line with the laws.

Ya, ok. I remember years, years, ago when the regular resorts had what like 4-5 "seasons". Now I swear, there is like what 24 "seasons", or close? It is absolutely absurd. I am waiting on the day that there will be a different price for every single day of the year with the Disney resorts. Just greed at it best.

 

[drusba]

Does the following essentially, in a very simplified way, outline how you interpret things for resorts with the base year provision:

1 - the base year was selected when the resort went on sale and used to determine the number of points that would be declared at the resort. (That means base year and point totals are fixed to that per pretty much every document ever released and every sales pitch ever made)
2 - any reallocations ever done need to tie back to those point totals - and in that regard to the base year - but the point total first created from the base year becomes the important part and remains fixed. The base year then more or less becomes a tool to assist in doing the reallocation.
3 - the existence of a base year used to calculate the point requirements for each villa does mean that in some years the point totals required may exceed what was declared And that means not every single year will tie back exactly to the point total declared for the resort but the point totals for the nights should tie back to the base year.

Am I off base or missing something? If not then yes, the base year was fixed way back when the resort began it's declarations and could never be changed.

That is right on. Moroever, as was stated in the Product Understanding Checklist for every resort provided to purchasers to DVD at time of sale, the total points to reserve all the rooms for the calendar year cannot increase in any subsequent year except for increases caused solely by the normal changes in the yearly calendar.

Also, the membership agreement requires, when DVCM modifies the point charts for a calendar year from the prior year that any increase in points to reserve any vacation home for any days must be met by an equal decrease in other days.

Together, what all this means is that the original base year is the year in which all the points created for the resort would exactly fill all the rooms for the 365 days in the year, and DVCM cannot do anything to later increase that total. If DVCM could later just switch to a new base year that would mean it could switch to a year that uses more points than the original base year simply due to normal calendar changes, e.g., a new base year may have more weekend days than the original one or more weekend days in one of the higher seasons, That would effectively, and improperly, result in the total points applicable to a resort to permanently be changed higher than those originally created.

 

[SL6827]

This is all over my head, but sounds illegal as all get out. I really don't know either way.

 

[New Mouse]

This is all over my head, but sounds illegal as all get out. I really don't know either way.

As has often been the case.

 

[i<3riviera]

͏

 

[SL6827]

Could a class action lawsuit against Disney come from this?

 

[DL1WDW2]

Could a class action lawsuit against Disney come from this?

Doubtful....but DVC needs to have the reputation to sell the idea that Disney is not a timeshare but a vacation club with magically happy members.

We have to believe that we are important to future success.
DVC still needs happy members , not suspicious confused members.

 

[bobbiwoz]

^ That video was awesome to find and listen to. Tom and I wrote a letter to Terri, we haven’t heard back yet, but, that explanation of point changes is the one I understand!

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

Could a class action lawsuit against Disney come from this?

Absolutely.
But I don’t think it would get to that. At least I hope it would not. We’ve never been involved in any lawsuits and would prefer to keep it that way. But we did the math and we have over $100k invested in this, not including the member fees. I am sure there are a lot of people in our shoes. The contracts add up quickly. If someone started a lawsuit and Disney was unresponsive, I’d be pretty interested in that lawsuit. I was nervous when they tried to pull this a few years ago, but then they changed the charts back, so I thought it was over. But they are doing the same thing again in a different way, deflating the value of our points. It’s just really unsettling. As others have said, I don’t care about them messing with point charts. We go throughout the year, so it doesn’t matter if one time of year goes up or down, and frankly, I never assumed one time of year would always cost _____. They told us that could change. But the overall number of points was not supposed to change. I think part of what is unsettling to me is that they obviously think we are stupid, that we will just let it slip by.
We sent an email too. Waiting to hear.

edit to add: We also do not care if they change points between room categories, or if they have a new “season” for every day, or if they make Easter the million dollar day. Lol. Base year, all of it, meaningless as far as we are concerned. BUT TOTAL POINTS PER YEAR MUST REMAIN THE SAME. I know a lot of people feel strongly about those other things. And they are valid concerns to bring up with Disney— and there is an element of sleaze on Disney’s part if they dump bungalow points on studios at Polynesian. I am glad others are bringing those issues up with Disney, but ultimately, those things do not cross the line for us. Making seven seasons or whatever they have now just makes Disney look silly and meddlesome. The management over there really needs to become more professional and less petty. It seems like they have too much time on their hands, or too many people employed. I get the feeling that no one is in charge at dvc. But all we ultimately care about is overall deflation of point value.

 

[zavandor]

the first part of that saying base year is fixed but changed seems like a silly thing for DVCM to say; either it's fixed, or not fixed; for DVCM to say it's fixed except the random year DVCM decides to change it is odd for them to say

That's quantum mechanics. The Base Use Year is like Schrödinger's cat, it's both fixed and variable until a DVC Member decides to take the effort to measure it and confront the management company about their decisions.

 

[Minniemoo15]

Absolutely.
But I don’t think it would get to that. At least I hope it would not. We’ve never been involved in any lawsuits and would prefer to keep it that way. But we did the math and we have over $100k invested in this, not including the member fees. I am sure there are a lot of people in our shoes. The contracts add up quickly. If someone started a lawsuit and Disney was unresponsive, I’d be pretty interested in that lawsuit. I was nervous when they tried to pull this a few years ago, but then they changed the charts back, so I thought it was over. But they are doing the same thing again in a different way, deflating the value of our points. It’s just really unsettling. As others have said, I don’t care about them messing with point charts. We go throughout the year, so it doesn’t matter if one time of year goes up or down, and frankly, I never assumed one time of year would always cost _____. They told us that could change. But the overall number of points was not supposed to change. I think part of what is unsettling to me is that they obviously think we are stupid, that we will just let it slip by.
We sent an email too. Waiting to hear.

edit to add: We also do not care if they change points between room categories, or if they have a new “season” for every day, or if they make Easter the million dollar day. Lol. Base year, all of it, meaningless as far as we are concerned. BUT TOTAL POINTS PER YEAR MUST REMAIN THE SAME. I know a lot of people feel strongly about those other things. And they are valid concerns to bring up with Disney— and there is an element of sleaze on Disney’s part if they dump bungalow points on studios at Polynesian. I am glad others are bringing those issues up with Disney, but ultimately, those things do not cross the line for us. Making seven seasons or whatever they have now just makes Disney look silly and meddlesome. The management over there really needs to become more professional and less petty. It seems like they have too much time on their hands, or too many people employed. I get the feeling that no one is in charge at dvc. But all we ultimately care about is overall deflation of point value.

That is really well put and sums up how I feel. I feel this move goes beyond the original intent of the point charts. Just because you can do something doesn’t mean you should.

 

[EM Lawrence]

I want to thank all of you who have taken the time to explain this very complex problem on this thread. I want to send an email and make inquiries, but it is so confusing and complicated that it makes me feel kind of silly to ask questions about things I don’t completely understand. But this continued thread really does help. Where should I send an email to express my concerns?