DVC plans to target commercial renters

[theMoreDisneytheBetter]

Admittedly this is a stupid question and I apologize if it has been answered already but what would not changing the lead guest on a rental due except limit the number of people that can get the benefit of staying on a Disney property from that room. Eg if I wanted to book a studio for 5 people, but the lead guest is the renter, than wouldn’t all 5 still be able to stay in the room, but one would be considered a “off-site” visitor?

We have never rented points (somehow we are always max borrowed no matter how many points we buy) and we are definitely not a “let’s fill the room to max capacity” kind of family, so I’m more thinking about this from an owner’s perspective. My mom and I co-own all of our points, and I’d hate to be in a situation where we lose our reservation because it was made under my name but I couldn’t end our going, or her name and she couldn’t for some reason.

 

[Spivey378]

Me too! I’ll be seeing them a Madison square garden for their holiday run!

Woo-hoo! Nice to know there are other DVC phans out there!

 

[Sandisw]

I do, for one. I also wish they could find a way to focus on spec rental rather than renting requests. I don't know if it's possible, probably not.
The rental forum on the Disboards, for example, have people mostly avoiding renting for Values and Standards, because they're a pain. I, for example, write in my posts to avoid asking me for values and standards because they're never available at 7 months (I own SSR). So people end up renting more commonly available views and rooms.

I have my doubts that they can or even will distinguish between them becsuse to do so, they’d at least have to provide an explanation on how the type of rental changes the owners from renting commerciallly, when asked.

If I rent one reservation and it was one I secured and offered vs someone who offers points and makes one, what rationale could they use that makes one okay and not the other?

I can’t think of how they can other than, this is what the rules are, live with it.

Given they have acknowledged the right of owners to rent, it seems like an aspect that we won’t see

But, we could see the definition of “pattern of rental”activity become a very narrow one.

 

[Sandisw]

Admittedly this is a stupid question and I apologize if it has been answered already but what would not changing the lead guest on a rental due except limit the number of people that can get the benefit of staying on a Disney property from that room. Eg if I wanted to book a studio for 5 people, but the lead guest is the renter, than wouldn’t all 5 still be able to stay in the room, but one would be considered a “off-site” visitor?

We have never rented points (somehow we are always max borrowed no matter how many points we buy) and we are definitely not a “let’s fill the room to max capacity” kind of family, so I’m more thinking about this from an owner’s perspective. My mom and I co-own all of our points, and I’d hate to be in a situation where we lose our reservation because it was made under my name but I couldn’t end our going, or her name and she couldn’t for some reason.

If the owner remains a guest, then they can’t rent it for 5…they’d be forced to rent to 4.

The first guest would not be allowed to stay nor qualify for any of the onsite benefits because they would not be a registered guest.

Now, there are plenty of groups out there that have fewer guests than occupany so an owner should not have any problem finding a group.

But that is why I think they are going to really tighten up number of reservations that trigger the review and maybe even require owners to submit a rental agreement or guest type verification which is signed by the guest at check in.

 

[theMoreDisneytheBetter]

If the owner remains a guest, then they can’t rent it for 5…they’d be forced to rent to 4.

The first guest would not be allowed to stay nor qualify for any of the onsite benefits because they would not be a registered guest.

Now, there are plenty of groups out there that have fewer guests than occupany so an owner should not have any problem finding a group.

But that is why I think they are going to really tighten up number of reservations that trigger the review and maybe even require owners to submit a rental agreement or guest type verification which is signed by the guest at check in.

I guess. I just thought that they could say “you can have 5 people in the room, but only 4 would be ‘on the reservation’.” What would be more restrictive is if the lead guest needs to physically be there at check-in, but that’s moving in the opposite direction of what Disney is doing with virtual checkin etc. Perhaps if only the lead guest is able to put down their credit card for MB/room charges that might help?

 

[theMoreDisneytheBetter]

Or members are only allowed to change lead guests once (or twice) per year?

 

[nalababybear]

Too many rules spoil the product.

Define clearly what commercial is, then enforce it and let the chips fall where they are.

People will adjust accordingly.

 

[GoingSince1990]

I do, for one. I also wish they could find a way to focus on spec rental rather than renting requests. I don't know if it's possible, probably not.
The rental forum on the Disboards, for example, have people mostly avoiding renting for Values and Standards, because they're a pain. I, for example, write in my posts to avoid asking me for values and standards because they're never available at 7 months (I own SSR). So people end up renting more commonly available views and rooms.

Focusing on spec rentals as opposed to rental requests is the easiest thing that Disney can do (and is where I would start if I was hired by DVC to clamp down on rentals). All they have to do is to look at the websites listing pages and pages of desirable spec rentals, cross-reference them in their system with existing reservations for the same resorts and dates, check when the lead guest information is changed when a room disappears from the rental website, and build up a dossier of owners who are indisputably engaging in commercial rental activity. Rental requests are much harder to challenge as it is almost impossible for Disney to prove that someone reserving a room with a lead guest other than the owner is a paid rental, as opposed to someone making a reservation for a family member or friend. But rental requests are of course much less of a problem for everyone than spec rentals as they do not involve large owners snapping up desirable rooms at exactly 8 AM on the earliest possible dates, possibly using bots and engaging in walking.

 

[Spivey378]

Disney doesn't need any regulation on this. They should just ask the commercial renters to stop. Problem solved.

 

[OKW Lover]

Disney doesn't need any regulation on this. They should just ask the commercial renters to stop. Problem solved.

...and if they don't stop?

 

[Tatebeck]

...and if they don't stop?

then they can cancel that member's reservations as soon as they make them and put someone else's name on them, if Disney believes they are doing it in a commercial fashion.

 

[RickNJane]

I have rented my points, but never a confirmed reservation. I rented when life got in the way of vacation. I hope whatever they come up with is simple and does not stop casual rentals. One thing I have heard and will support is that if you change the name on the reservation, that reservation is then canceled and the room goes to whoever is on the waitlist. That would stop the spec rentals and not penalize us too much.

 

[TCRAIG]

I have rented my points, but never a confirmed reservation. I rented when life got in the way of vacation. I hope whatever they come up with is simple and does not stop casual rentals. One thing I have heard and will support is that if you change the name on the reservation, that reservation is then canceled and the room goes to whoever is on the waitlist. That would stop the spec rentals and not penalize us too much.

That would however penalize members who - like me - booked a reservation they can no longer use - and rather than cancel and rent the points - prefer to rent the booked reservation…
I’ve only done this twice in 14+ years of owning - once I was able to find a renter and once I wasn’t…I current have another confirmed booking available for rent -does that make me a commercial renter? I certainly don’t think so because I know commercial renting is against the rules…

 

[Disney Spaz]

For us we have never rented and keep buying more to cover our needs but I wouldn't want the day to come where we couldn't rent them if we needed to. That being said as a DVC owner it does frustrate me to no end to see all these reservations for sale by different companies that are clearly being grabbed up by bots as they are almost always the hardest to get rooms.

My DS owns at AKV and has tried for years to get value rooms and once concierge, when he proposed to his fiance, and they were not available however the same reservation was available for rent from a group on Facebook. I am glad DVC is trying to address this as I do believe many DVC members now feel pushed to walk for those must get reservations and they are starting earlier and earlier.

 

[GoingSince1990]

I have rented my points, but never a confirmed reservation. I rented when life got in the way of vacation. I hope whatever they come up with is simple and does not stop casual rentals. One thing I have heard and will support is that if you change the name on the reservation, that reservation is then canceled and the room goes to whoever is on the waitlist. That would stop the spec rentals and not penalize us too much.

They can’t stop “casual rentals”, even if they wanted to. Renting is explicitly permitted in the TOS. They can only restrict commercial renting.

 

[CarolynFH]

My mom and I co-own all of our points, and I’d hate to be in a situation where we lose our reservation because it was made under my name but I couldn’t end our going, or her name and she couldn’t for some reason.

It doesn’t matter whether the lead guest shows up or not. Any guest whose name is on the list can go to the front desk and check in when they arrive. They can even link their own credit card for room charges.

 

[GoingSince1990]

It doesn’t matter whether the lead guest shows up or not. Any guest whose name is on the list can go to the front desk and check in when they arrive. They can even link their own credit card for room charges.

When I read about a Wyndham owner who had to fly to Orlando just to sign his son and son’s family into the room (the owner was not part of the vacation), it really reinforced that we should beware of the unintended consequences of any “fix”.

 

[Willow Ufgood]

I have rented my points, but never a confirmed reservation. I rented when life got in the way of vacation. I hope whatever they come up with is simple and does not stop casual rentals. One thing I have heard and will support is that if you change the name on the reservation, that reservation is then canceled and the room goes to whoever is on the waitlist. That would stop the spec rentals and not penalize us too much.

There have been a number of times that I have changed the lead name on a reservation because I quickly booked a hard to get room under my name just to get thru the reservation process. But the reservation was always for a family member or friend that I was booking for. Most recently, I gifted a weekend to my niece when we decided that we are in no hurry to return. I wouldn't like to see a rule change that penalizes members for making changes to the lead name just because plans changed.

 

[Genie+]

Faulty logic. Not every owner is competing for those rooms. However, nearly every landlord is.

Yep.

There are 246 Boardwalk studios total.
165 are Pool/Garden View = 67%
52 are Standard/Resort View = 21%
29 are Boardwalk View = 12%

Typical Spec Renting snapshot from one corner of the internet:

156 total BW Studio reservations

123 Standard View = 79% of the reservations, nearly 4 times the natural distribution

27 Pool/Garden = 17% of the reservations, about 1/4 of the the natural distribution

Commercial Spec Renting is pulling Standard at a rate of 16 to 1 over Pool/Garden than the natural distribution. I think that is FAR from personal use owners.

and 6 BW View = 4% of the reservations.

Thank goodness at least BW Views are under-represented in Commercial Use.

The 156 reservations total is across ~800 nights.

640 nights Standard View = ~80% of the bookings yet only represent 21% of the rooms.

136 nights Pool/Garden View = 17% of the bookings yet are 67% of the rooms.

25 nights BW View = 3% of the bookings - pretty good against being 12% of the rooms

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

Define clearly what commercial is,

Nah, that just lets the big box brokers who are buying/stripping/renting/selling know how to adjust to get around the new rules. Keep the rules opaque and just start bringing the (cancelled reservation) hammer down. It’s a simple strategy that has worked remarkably well for the other large timeshare developers. No reason to reinvent the wheel here with all kinds of complex new rules.