DVC must stop rentals.....

[gharter]

That’s Bull. We should be trying to balance the demand. Why should It be impossible to book a room 6 months out?

It always has. Unless you are going at an off time, booking after 7 months is a crap shoot at best.
We have owned DVC for a while and pre-covid, booking at 7 months was a hope and a prayer during busy times.

 

[gharter]

I am 6 months out from my trip, and I can't get a full week in a studio anywhere. Disney has to stop the rental market, at least until the backlog of points clears. Members using their own points should have some availability at this point.

Seriously? We've owned DVC for years and getting a "cheap" studio at 7 months has always been difficult to get.
Why are your points more important than everyone elses?
Book at 11 months, and rarely will you have a problem, unless you bought where you didn't want to stay and now are trying to change.
If you are looking at the fall, it has ALWAYS been a high DVC fill rate and switching at 7 months has been difficult.
Nothing new.

 

[Sandisw]

I don’t know, selling off Aulani and detaching it from the pool is something that is possible, as I understand it. Same thing with VB & HHI. Someone feel free to jump in and correct me if I’m wrong.

Any resort that is part of BVTC is allowed to trade at 7 months so you are correct, owners of Aulani, VB and HH have the same rights to book WDW as WDW owners.

Bungalows are part of PVB so those are eligible like all PVB

 

[Madame]

I guess for me, and maybe for OP, it’s the spirit of the rules being disregarded. This is the same poster (on the DIS I suspect as well). 2 days worth of rentals. All made with SSR & AUL points - I suspect the bcv rental here has been walked a bit and the front end will be dropped.

This is a *frequent* weekly/bi-weekly type post. There are *several* other owners just in this one group that post like this as well…. Usually studios, a lot of low point resorts especially bcv…. Many during high demand times… and this is on top of the spec rentals being encouraged by rental agencies…

I am sure the owner knows exactly how many rentals before the DVC non-commercial rule is broken…. But this is commercial renting all the same I have just accepted it and moved on, but I think OP’s argument has validity. The commercial rental number needs to be lowered.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I guess for me, and maybe for OP, it’s the spirit of the rules being disregarded. This is the same poster (on the DIS I suspect as well). 2 days worth of rentals. All made with SSR & AUL points - I suspect the bcv rental here has been walked a bit and the front end will be dropped.

This is a *frequent* weekly/bi-weekly type post. There are *several* other owners just in this one group that post like this as well…. Usually studios, a lot of low point resorts especially bcv…. Many during high demand times… and this is on top of the spec rentals being encouraged by rental agencies…

I am sure the owner knows exactly how many rentals before the DVC non-commercial rule is broken…. But this is commercial renting all the same I have just accepted it and moved on, but I think OP’s argument has validity. The commercial rental number needs to be lowered.

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Some of those prices are so low they almost feel like fraud. Old Key West 1BR at $10/pt.?

 

[Madame]

Some of those prices are so low they almost feel like fraud. Old Key West 1BR at $10/pt.?

Nope. He rents all the time. Totally legit. Probably some expiring points.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Nope. He rents all the time. Totally legit. Probably some expiring points.

If you have expiring points you ain't very good at this game.

 

[Madame]

If you have expiring points you ain't very good at this game.

I think it’s a numbers game. I have no idea of the behind the scenes. Perhaps acquisition of a new resale contract with expiring points

 

[Sandisw]

I guess for me, and maybe for OP, it’s the spirit of the rules being disregarded. This is the same poster (on the DIS I suspect as well). 2 days worth of rentals. All made with SSR & AUL points - I suspect the bcv rental here has been walked a bit and the front end will be dropped.

This is a *frequent* weekly/bi-weekly type post. There are *several* other owners just in this one group that post like this as well…. Usually studios, a lot of low point resorts especially bcv…. Many during high demand times… and this is on top of the spec rentals being encouraged by rental agencies…

I am sure the owner knows exactly how many rentals before the DVC non-commercial rule is broken…. But this is commercial renting all the same I have just accepted it and moved on, but I think OP’s argument has validity. The commercial rental number needs to be lowered.

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I believe it is per membership so that can make a difference too in what one might see.

But there is still no concrete data to suggest that any limits would make a negligible difference in how long rooms last.

Even in this case, it is a very popular week for many travelers. More likely than not those were booked by owners traveling who secured them early on.

 

[Madame]

I believe it is per membership so that can make a difference too in what one might see.

But there is still no concrete data to suggest that any limits would make a negligible difference in how long rooms last.

Even in this case, it is a very popular week for many travelers. More likely than not those were booked by owners traveling who secured them early on.

I get that, but this is clearly commercial renting. Just because it doesn't technically qualify as such, doesn't mean that perhaps DVC shouldn't re-examine the criteria of commercial renting in keeping with the changes social media/online booking have caused and their impact on the system as a whole. "this is why we can't have nice things" comes to mind.

 

[Sandisw]

I get that, but this is clearly commercial renting. Just because it doesn't technically qualify as such, doesn't mean that perhaps DVC shouldn't re-examine the criteria of commercial renting in keeping with the changes social media/online booking have caused and their impact on the system as a whole. "this is why we can't have nice things" comes to mind.

If they change the rules, that’s fine as long as it doesn’t impact my ability as an owner to use my points for family and friend trips.

But, we all have different definitions of commercial renting and to be honest I think 20 in 12 months is fair.

As I said, I have more than 10 almost all the time as we do lots of shorter but more frequent trips. An

It’s just be careful what you wish for because grass isn’t always greener and I still think there is no data that rentals have a big impact on owners booking home resorts during that 4 month window.

 

[Madame]

If they change the rules, that’s fine as long as it doesn’t impact my ability as an owner to use my points for family and friend trips.

But, we all have different definitions of commercial renting and to be honest I think 20 in 12 months is fair.

As I said, I have more than 10 almost all the time as we do lots of shorter but more frequent trips. An

It’s just be careful what you wish for because grass isn’t always greener and I still think there is no data that rentals have a big impact on owners booking home resorts during that 4 month window.

For sure, but unless you have a vast network of friends/family that you're gifting trips to every month, you're not going to come close to some of these owners. I myself have rented out points a few times. I'm not anti-rentals. I'm against commercial renters obviously not adhering to the spirit of the rules.

 

[Sandisw]

For sure, but unless you have a vast network of friends/family that you're gifting trips to every month, you're not going to come close to some of these owners. I myself have rented out points a few times. I'm not anti-rentals. I'm against commercial renters obviously not adhering to the spirit of the rules.

I actually do and while I travel most of the time you never know and sometimes I give them away

Again, I have no problem with the current commercial renting rules, but others do. And, only DVC has access to know how many owners are violating or close to it.

I just don’t believe it’s as many owners as people think.

 

[lowlight]

I believe it is per membership so that can make a difference too in what one might see.

But there is still no concrete data to suggest that any limits would make a negligible difference in how long rooms last.

Even in this case, it is a very popular week for many travelers. More likely than not those were booked by owners traveling who secured them early on.

I don't think any limits would change things, because there is always someone who can find a loophole (like walking) and exploit it, and then it becomes common knowledge and everyone does it and the only people affected are the ones who refuse to play dirty. However, I disagree that it would not make a noticeable difference. (Some) brokers are encouraging renters to rent confirmed reservations for these types of weeks over custom point rentals. Anytime brokers get involved, it tends to lead the market in the direction they want. I have no idea how long brokers have been doing this, but it's an undisputable fact that they are doing this.

There probably isn't any way to fix it without hurting the majority, unfortunately, but that doesn't mean there aren't artificial issues going on that are affecting availability.

 

[Madame]

I actually do and while I travel most of the time you never know and sometimes I give them away

Again, I have no problem with the current commercial renting rules, but others do. And, only DVC has access to know how many owners are violating or close to it.

I just don’t believe it’s as many owners as people think.

I would argue that there are more than people think, enough to make a difference to many of us. I'd be happy to *only* reserve at my HRs, but I know I'm in the minority there. I would also be happy with making some resorts' points worth less when trading - I'm an SSR owner more than happy to use my SSR points at our HR though.

 

[lowlight]

I would argue that there are more than people think, enough to make a difference to many of us. I'd be happy to *only* reserve at my HRs, but I know I'm in the minority there. I would also be happy with making some resorts' points worth less when trading - I'm an SSR owner more than happy to use my SSR points at our HR though.

Many rental places tier out resorts in categories, with OKW and SSR on the bottom for value. Another option would be giving waitlist priority at home resorts- basically if I waitlist a room at my HR under 7 months and someone else waitlists with sleep around points, I would get priority. I don't like either of those options, though, as I think they unfairly punish people who bought into a system expecting to use it a certain way, and neither address the issue of just general lack of availability of anything that OP was talking about.

 

[CarolMN]

I don't think any limits would change things, because there is always someone who can find a loophole (like walking) and exploit it, and then it becomes common knowledge and everyone does it and the only people affected are the ones who refuse to play dirty. However, I disagree that it would not make a noticeable difference. (Some) brokers are encouraging renters to rent confirmed reservations for these types of weeks over custom point rentals. Anytime brokers get involved, it tends to lead the market in the direction they want. I have no idea how long brokers have been doing this, but it's an undisputable fact that they are doing this.

There probably isn't any way to fix it without hurting the majority, unfortunately, but that doesn't mean there aren't artificial issues going on that are affecting availability.

Isn't it usually well past the 11 month window by the time most contact a broker to rent their points? If so, making a spec reservation for a popular time doesn't seem to be so awful to me. As an owner of two popular near-park resorts, I really don't feel much of an obligation to maintain availability for those using the 7 month window.

I'm not a fan of renting, and wish there was a simple way to give priority to members using their points for themselves. But I can't think of a legal one that doesn't come with collateral damage. Renting is definitely contributing to the speed of booking. We need to adjust how we use our membership accordingly.

 

[Madame]

Isn't it usually well past the 11 month window by the time most contact a broker to rent their points? If so, making a spec reservation for a popular time doesn't seem to be so awful to me. As an owner of two popular near-park resorts, I really don't feel much of an obligation to maintain availability for those using the 7 month window.

I'm not a fan of renting, and wish there was a simple way to give priority to members using their points for themselves. But I can't think of a legal one that doesn't come with collateral damage. Renting is definitely contributing to the speed of booking. We need to adjust how we use our membership accordingly.

I agree. I follow these rental FB pages when I'm stalking so that I know who is having a hard time selling the specific resort I want right before the 30 day holding period. I'm willing to do what it takes to get what I want, including investing dozens of hours stalking. Not everyone is though and I think that's part of OP's problems.

 

[crisi]

That’s Bull. We should be trying to balance the demand. Why should It be impossible to book a room 6 months out?

There is an answer to that as well. DVC has sold enough points to fill the resorts year round. That is how timeshares operate if they are successful. Fill them. There will be a room left over here or there - some held back for maintenance (though not many) which can't be booked because they are held back in case someone's toilet breaks in the middle of their trip. There are some lost to breakage inventory - people who don't use their points - but that seems to be less of that happening right now - IMHO points have gotten too expensive to just waste.

Each year for the past thirty years, a few people have discovered as you are discovering this year that they can't get what they want when they book. So the next year they resolve to book earlier (or perhaps they sell their points, but the majority of them learn to work the system). For thirty years we've been training people to call earlier and earlier - in particular for studios - where the pressure became intense with 50 point direct buys for perks - and in particular for the last three months and first two weeks of every calendar year - the room and type you want to book. More people want studios and more people want to travel during that period of time than there are studios available during that period of time. Additionally, the increase in number of high point chart studios makes the original resorts values - so at six months they, in particular, are going to disappear fast. Short of Tinkerbell waving her wand and producing more rooms on demand, there will always be a problem booking a studio six months out over Jersey Week - there has been for years and if you've been doing it without ever having a problem before, you've had a run of incredible luck. I've participated in this board for twenty five years - joined before BCV opened, and this thread has happened every year - "I can't get a studio over Food and Wine six months out, it must be renters."

That is the nature of timeshares. There will be room types and times of year when getting the room you want is possible at three or four months out - one bedrooms, February, if you aren't picky about resort.

There is no way to balance the demand for timeshares in such a way that what you are looking for is going to happen. Because what you are looking for involves a surplus capacity of rooms and a surplus of rooms isn't profitable for Disney - it isn't just a matter of moving points around - there are always going to be as many members to stay in those rooms as there are rooms, and the nature of the beast is that people plan vacations more than six months out. At some point,, availability becomes spotty. No matter how you move the points around, you are switching resorts, waitlisting, filling in a night for cash - because the resorts start reaching capacity and people check in and out on different days. After that, rooms start becoming completely unavailable.

 

[crisi]

Isn't it usually well past the 11 month window by the time most contact a broker to rent their points? If so, making a spec reservation for a popular time doesn't seem to be so awful to me. As an owner of two popular near-park resorts, I really don't feel much of an obligation to maintain availability for those using the 7 month window.

I'm not a fan of renting, and wish there was a simple way to give priority to members using their points for themselves. But I can't think of a legal one that doesn't come with collateral damage. Renting is definitely contributing to the speed of booking. We need to adjust how we use our membership accordingly.

Myself, I don't rent out my BWV points during Food and Wine and I don't commit to renting out standard views. They aren't going to be available to folks at seven months anyway - BWV books up with owners during that time of year. Its easy enough to rent them at other times of year for the same price per point from a broker. Now, I could do spec rentals and probably make twice what I'd make through a broker if I booked that time of year, but I'm not renting points to get rich, just to cover dues on points that I'm not using that I've gotten value out of. But....I bought 25 years ago, I didn't buy a BWV resale at $140 a point last year.