DVC Moderate Resort Being Reported by WDWNT

[Keels]

My opinion as someone currently exploring a DVC purchase (also, because I'm not going to funnel through bickering to see if this was mentioned before):

With the new reveal that resale buyers of DVC won't reap the same benefits as those buying initially via DVC, my hands are almost completely tied to buy DVC FROM DVC.

My current options are either Poly Resort & Bungalows or Hawaii. That's it. Am I currently holding out to see if other options arrive that I like better (ie. Wildnerness Lodge, etc.) - absolutely. I know everything is ultimately interchangeable and easily rentable, but I'm not buying a stake in something I'm not going to. I haven't even been to Hawaii, let alone going to Disney Hawaii. Poly is one of the easiest places to book either directly or via a point service. I also don't stay there because it's not where I want to be.

Build another DVC location at EPCOT or with easy, non-bus transport to EPCOT and I'm in. Happily. This goes for DHS too. A great pool would be nice, but location is better.

 

[sfbntpc]

My opinion as someone currently exploring a DVC purchase (also, because I'm not going to funnel through bickering to see if this was mentioned before):

With the new reveal that resale buyers of DVC won't reap the same benefits as those buying initially via DVC, my hands are almost completely tied to buy DVC FROM DVC.

My current options are either Poly Resort & Bungalows or Hawaii. That's it. Am I currently holding out to see if other options arrive that I like better (ie. Wildnerness Lodge, etc.) - absolutely. I know everything is ultimately interchangeable and easily rentable, but I'm not buying a stake in something I'm not going to. I haven't even been to Hawaii, let alone going to Disney Hawaii. Poly is one of the easiest places to book either directly or via a point service. I also don't stay there because it's not where I want to be.

Build another DVC location at EPCOT or with easy, non-bus transport to EPCOT and I'm in. Happily. This goes for DHS too. A great pool would be nice, but location is better.

You can call DVC and see if they have contracts of other resorts available. When I spoke with my DVC guy, he told me he also had some Beach Club and OKW contracts available...I bought in 2012

 

[lightguy]

My opinion as someone currently exploring a DVC purchase (also, because I'm not going to funnel through bickering to see if this was mentioned before):

With the new reveal that resale buyers of DVC won't reap the same benefits as those buying initially via DVC, my hands are almost completely tied to buy DVC FROM DVC.

My current options are either Poly Resort & Bungalows or Hawaii. That's it. Am I currently holding out to see if other options arrive that I like better (ie. Wildnerness Lodge, etc.) - absolutely. I know everything is ultimately interchangeable and easily rentable, but I'm not buying a stake in something I'm not going to. I haven't even been to Hawaii, let alone going to Disney Hawaii. Poly is one of the easiest places to book either directly or via a point service. I also don't stay there because it's not where I want to be.

Build another DVC location at EPCOT or with easy, non-bus transport to EPCOT and I'm in. Happily. This goes for DHS too. A great pool would be nice, but location is better.

Why not buy resale? We're about to close for 110 a point at BLT. So we lose the small discount on annual passes, can't get tables in Wonderland card or go to special member events. Big deal, it's unlikely we would have used any of that anyway and there's no grantee that any of it will continue for anyone. Disney can cut all of that off at any time. However, if I really cared, I'd just buy a 2nd contract from disney for 25 points. Than I could do all those things.

 

[HopperFan]

According to the report cited here...and my own sources...conversion of existing rooms is not being entertained. They would either demolish existing CB buildings for villas or build on undeveloped land.

Aside from my thoughts that is the last moderate I'd want to buy in to ......... the Pirates rooms had permits for a refurb that I as far as reports has never started. Maybe there are new plans for them as they are across lake from this brown patch of land being discussed.

According to reports that's not where the DVC will go. See that brownish patch to the bottom right of where you put the DVC? That's where the rumored DVC buildings will go.

So that patch of land means DVC will be even farther from the main hub than the Pirate rooms.

And after Caribbean I can't see location wise another moderate that would work. But never say never I guess

Actually CSR is surrounded by land that could work and given that it already offers a higher end of amenities and large number of dining options, it would make more sense. POR/FQ has small patches of land but it would mean abutting to infrastructure.

I think Coronado and CBR are the largest moderates with riverside being close behind. French quarter is rather small.

CBR 2109
POR 2048
CSR 1921
POFQ 1008

And foot print is in that same size order largest to smallest

 

[skier_pete]

With the new reveal that resale buyers of DVC won't reap the same benefits as those buying initially via DVC, my hands are almost completely tied to buy DVC FROM DVC.

Off topic..but...

Sorry - no they are not. You buy 200 points at AKV for $80 a point, or 200 points at the Poly for $170 a point. That's $16,000 versus $34,000. You are choosing to pay an extra $18,000 to get a $100 per person AP discount that could still go away anytime, and some other discounts that might amount to $200 a trip.

If you are really sure you need these discounts. Buy 175 points at AKV and then 25 points direct from the Poly. This would be $18,250 instead of $34,000 and you get all the same benefits you would at $34,000. (Except the conceirge/Disney collections of course)

Since I just saved you $15,750, you can buy me dinner next trip.


ON Topic....

So I was posting in the regular news thread but figured I would come over here. I haven't read through this whole thing - but I just don't see Disney coming up with a "moderate" DVC. Worse case it is a "lower point" DVC similar to OKW or SSR. (not that SSR is low point). It might be next to CBR, but it won't be of a moderate quality.

 

[skier_pete]

OK - a few other comments to look at this logically:

1) Would Disney sell a "Low point cost" moderate DVC, meaning instead of $170 a point being $100 a point?

The answer here is "no way". If you made it swappable with other DVC properties, it will undercut other DVC sales too much. If you make a second "moderate" DVC category it still doesn't work. Sure you could make the rooms slightly smaller, but it doesn't really change the footprint that much. Your construction costs are nearly as high, but you are cutting your profit margin way down - simply won't happen. Points will still be $170 per point.

2) Would Disney sell a "Lower point per night stay" moderate DVC, ?

This is I suppose possible, but unlikely. Again, it cuts into profits. OKW is 10-20 points for a studio, 21-40 points for a 1-bedroom, 29-50 points 2-bedroom. To put in a comparable - they would practically have to cut that by 30%. so 6-14 points for a studio, 14-30 points for a 1-bedroom, 20-40 points for 2-bedroom. If you build smaller rooms I suppose there may be some benefit here, but really is that again the profit margin would drop. It could also reek havoc on the DVC system - but I would bet Disney wouldn't care about this.

3) Would Disney create a "moderate" DVC category that would not exchange in with the other resorts?

I just don't think they would. DVC is profitable because the premium up front costs and you are appealing to the high end vacation traveller. Disney sells DVC primarily to the folks that would normally prefer a deluxe accommodation. This would become instead of "deluxe stay at moderate prices" it would be "moderate stay at Value prices". Can they sell that to people paying $10,000 to $20,000 up front? Are the value travelers willing to buy into a timeshare. I don't think Disney would risk that this would work.

The most logical thing - this won't actually be a "moderate" DVC.

 

[AnnaKat]

Off topic..but...

Sorry - no they are not. You buy 200 points at AKV for $80 a point, or 200 points at the Poly for $170 a point. That's $16,000 versus $34,000. You are choosing to pay an extra $18,000 to get a $100 per person AP discount that could still go away anytime, and some other discounts that might amount to $200 a trip.

If you are really sure you need these discounts. Buy 175 points at AKV and then 25 points direct from the Poly. This would be $18,250 instead of $34,000 and you get all the same benefits you would at $34,000. (Except the conceirge/Disney collections of course)

Since I just saved you $15,750, you can buy me dinner next trip.


ON Topic....

So I was posting in the regular news thread but figured I would come over here. I haven't read through this whole thing - but I just don't see Disney coming up with a "moderate" DVC. Worse case it is a "lower point" DVC similar to OKW or SSR. (not that SSR is low point). It might be next to CBR, but it won't be of a moderate quality.

I agree with the savings Resales offer; AND discount for DVC -discounted APs are decreasing proportionately every year! Oh, TIW is still available for AP holders.

I agree that the new Carribean Beach DVC studios, etc. would be next to CBR, but NOT of the same quality.
Based on the HUGE difference in buy-in point cost for DVC-direct vs. the Resale market,
it is quite possible that Disney will create a Tier 2 DVC, starting with building @ CBR, & expanding to FQ/POR, etc.

As a Tier 2 DVC, it could be promoted as luxurious accommodations & amenities with a MUCH lower buy-in point price of $100 per point, and a much lower buy-in requirement of ONLY 100 points. Weekday points per night could be as low as 6. Weekend points as low as 12. For 54/week in points during the lowest season(s) of the year, a family could stay in a studio for 13 nights, every year.

The luxury amenities would have to be alluring, such as a Storm Along Bay type mini-water park; Trader Sam's-type lounge; Dole whip stand; special table service restaurant.
Of course the canal access to DHS & Epcot would add to the desirability.

As a Tier 2 DVC, DVC bookings would be limited to Tier 2 ONLY. That would mean home resort only until NEW Tier 2s
are built, such as @ FQ/POR.

Even WITH a DIRECT buy-in of ONLY $10K affording families a 7-13 night stay annually,
the STRONG Resale market could cut-into Tier 2 sales.
Families could pay $80-$100/point for a Resale, and have the benefit of booking @ AKV or OKW @ 11 months, & still have enough points, and for ONLY a $10-12K Resale purchase.
Disney could likely further restrict Resale purchases, by limiting them to HOME RESORT ONLY bookings.

It's likely the CBR hotel guests would share the luxury DVC amenities.
They could create a new class of rooms, between Moderate & Deluxe,
and instead of charging $200-300, they could increase the prices to $300-$450 per night.

 

[ParrotBill]

I think that even a 'moderate' DVC has to offer appropriate amenities including a pool you can easily walk to, and access to at least one sit down restaurant and counter service. It would be quite similar to SS if a bus route is used to get to the CBR Custom House. I could even forsee an internal shuttle among AoA, Pop, CBR and the new DVC. With this arrangement the place isn't really 'moderate' it just happens to be next to moderate hotels. And the cost of points and exchange among resorts is close to parity.

A canal would link nicely to Boardwalk, Studios and EPCOT. You would need a bridge for Victory Way but take it up through the present Studios driving entrance after they build the new Studios entrance that will come in off Osceola Parkway and that makes it less costly and less of an interruption.

I think the biggest question is this: That is a small piece of land for buildings, parking and a pool. In the present DVC model, you'd try to share front desk, housekeeping, etc with an existing hotel. CBR is overstuffed as it is - no room to add a couple hundred DVC villas to the with the parking and space there at Custom House. Not sure how they'd handle that.

 

[linzbear]

While I like the idea of a Tier 2 (we bought in before kids and have now grown to need a 2 bed), who would be the market for Tier 1? Right now the marketing is deluxe accommodations for a lower price. Most everyone buying would be perfectly happy with moderate accommodations for a lower price.

We have to get more points at some point, and there's very little that Disney can do to entice us to buy direct. We did originally because the resale/direct difference wasn't much and it was more convenient to buy direct. Convenience isn't going to cover tens of thousands of dollars though.

 

[Juliet25]

I'm intrigued. We used to own DVC but had to sell it a few years ago. I'm ready to buy again, but the prices of the current resorts are astronomically high. Depending on the price, this development might be able to attract the middle class buyer like me who loves Disney and sees value in the DVC concept but doesn't have $25K burning a hole in their pocket.

 

[ParkHoppers]

Disney would be wise to see how the new Wilderness Lodge cabins sell first and see if the use of the Poly stand alone structures stays high after gator awareness has increased. It can be a mental thing with people in the near future even if the danger is unlikely.

 

[skier_pete]

Another thing...I've stayed at timeshares before. There a appears to me to be two levels of timeshare in this world - "deluxe resort" and "rat hole". Makes me worried for the idea of a low-end timeshare at Disney.

BTW - if you want a cheap timeshare at Disney: Bonnet Creek is about 1000 yards from Caribbean Beach as the crow flies and you can by in there on the used market for about $500.

 

[dlavender]

Another thing...I've stayed at timeshares before. There a appears to me to be two levels of timeshare in this world - "deluxe resort" and "rat hole". Makes me worried for the idea of a low-end timeshare at Disney.

BTW - if you want a cheap timeshare at Disney: Bonnet Creek is about 1000 yards from Caribbean Beach as the crow flies and you can by in there on the used market for about $500.

But how "magical" is Bonnet Creek compared to CBR?

LoL will need to start a thread with that title and include a poll.

The DIS would never be the same.....

 

[disneydreamer781]

I actually like CBR and would have stayed there this December if not for Pop Warner. I enjoy the grounds. I'm wondering if this is true, that these accommodations may end up being like the AOA suites or something like the Poly studios? If they are trying to create a "low-end"? timeshare I guess they'll be nothing like the Poly.

 

[MommaBerd]

But how "magical" is Bonnet Creek compared to CBR?

LoL will need to start a thread with that title and include a poll.

The DIS would never be the same.....

If by "magical" you mean it makes money disappear from my wallet, then no, WBC isn't as magical.

 

[STLstone]

I actually like CBR and would have stayed there this December if not for Pop Warner. I enjoy the grounds. I'm wondering if this is true, that these accommodations may end up being like the AOA suites or something like the Poly studios? If they are trying to create a "low-end"? timeshare I guess they'll be nothing like the Poly.

We've all been assuming these would be "low end." What if these will be a small number of extremely high end units? Something like they did with bungalows. Maybe most of that land will be used for new amenities, not units.

I don't know which option (low or high) is least likely.

If someone already said this, I'm sorry, I didn't read every post.

 

[Missyrose]

Disney could likely further restrict Resale purchases, by limiting them to HOME RESORT ONLY bookings.

Here's the problem with that. Restricting resale buyers to home resorts would serve to make it hard as hell for direct buyers to change resorts at seven months out. You need home resort buyers (even resale ones) to move out of their home resort to let anyone else trade in.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

But how "magical" is Bonnet Creek compared to CBR?

LoL will need to start a thread with that title and include a poll.

The DIS would never be the same.....

Don't temp me...

 

[lockedoutlogic]

We've all been assuming these would be "low end." What if these will be a small number of extremely high end units? Something like they did with bungalows. Maybe most of that land will be used for new amenities, not units.

I don't know which option (low or high) is least likely.

If someone already said this, I'm sorry, I didn't read every post.

The facilities of Caribbean, pop, and animation just don't cut it compared to what they built at the now upper end hotels from 71-2001.

They just don't. Way more effort and committment to detail went into those than any of the moderates and values.

And frankly...Caribbean is the worst designed hotel in Disney history. From a logistics and facility standpoint...it's super problematic for both the consumer and the owner.

In fact...port, Dixie and Coronado were all designed not in small parts to correct the flaws of Caribbean. There's a lot of evidence to support that claim...

...besides Disney admitting in at the moderates behind the wall for decades.

 

[STLstone]

The facilities of Caribbean, pop, and animation just don't cut it compared to what they built at the now upper end hotels from 71-2001.

They just don't. Way more effort and committment to detail went into those than any of the moderates and values.

And frankly...Caribbean is the worst designed hotel in Disney history. From a logistics and facility standpoint...it's super problematic for both the consumer and the owner.

In fact...port, Dixie and Coronado were all designed not in small parts to correct the flaws of Caribbean. There's a lot of evidence to support that claim...

...besides Disney admitting in at the moderates behind the wall for decades.

You're describing a location that doesn't seem ripe for adding DVC units... unless there would be some serious amenity uprgades.