DVC Housekeeping Costs

[rkdahl]

I was curious if anyone had their OKW annual dues booklet available to check something for me. I misplaced mine, I probably burned it in the fireplace. I recall from reading through it that the housekeeping costs for OKW were well over $6 million annually? Can someone confirm that?

I had noted that it was the highest cost out of all our OKW resort annual operations, and I thought to myself, wow, you can do a lot of cleaning for $6M!!! I wondered why that was so high. I also own a Hilton HGVC timeshare and just got my dues statement. The Hilton property I own has 714 units, a combination of studios, 1, 2 and 3 bedroom (46 of the units are 3 bedrooms, much more than OKW). The Hilton annual housekeeping budget, including laundry and supplies, is $2.4 million, 1/3 of the cost of OKW.

I was curious why OKW housekeeping was so much higher? Part of it I'm sure is the spread out nature of the resort. My Hilton property is in two huge towers, more similar to a hotel. But certainly that doesn't account for over $4M higher for OKW does it? Do those little carts get very poor mileage?

I don't have access to any of the other DVC resorts to compare their housekeeping costs to OKW, but this just struck me as a large component of our OKW annual dues and I was wondering why it was so high. And 3 times the cost of my Hilton property. Any thoughts?

 

[RobDoc]

I was curious if anyone had their OKW annual dues booklet available to check something for me. I misplaced mine, I probably burned it in the fireplace. I recall from reading through it that the housekeeping costs for OKW were well over $6 million annually? Can someone confirm that?

I had noted that it was the highest cost out of all our OKW resort annual operations, and I thought to myself, wow, you can do a lot of cleaning for $6M!!! I wondered why that was so high. I also own a Hilton HGVC timeshare and just got my dues statement. The Hilton property I own has 714 units, a combination of studios, 1, 2 and 3 bedroom (46 of the units are 3 bedrooms, much more than OKW). The Hilton annual housekeeping budget, including laundry and supplies, is $2.4 million, 1/3 of the cost of OKW.

I was curious why OKW housekeeping was so much higher? Part of it I'm sure is the spread out nature of the resort. My Hilton property is in two huge towers, more similar to a hotel. But certainly that doesn't account for over $4M higher for OKW does it? Do those little carts get very poor mileage?

I don't have access to any of the other DVC resorts to compare their housekeeping costs to OKW, but this just struck me as a large component of our OKW annual dues and I was wondering why it was so high. And 3 times the cost of my Hilton property. Any thoughts?

The OKW 2008 estimated budget has Housekeeping at $6,000,942. Next highest is $3,800,367 for transportation, $3,691,442 for Administration/Front Desk and $3,434,047 for Maintenance. The total 2008 budget for OKW is $24,383,448.

For Hilton Head, the estimated budget for 2008 lists Housekeeping at $1,100,557 and it is the highest single budget item - just ahead of Administration/Front Desk at $999,459 and Maintenance at $959,625. The entire 2008 budget for HH totals $5,379,368. However, HH is the smallest DVC resort at 102 rooms compared to OKW's 531 total - more than 5 times smaller than OKW for Housekeeping. I'd expect that the other resorts will have similar expenses based on their relative size.

Does your Hilton timeshare have the same number of check-in/checkouts? When figuring the lock-off villas, OKW has 761 total possible rooms and allows stays of as little as 1 night. Housekeeping charges will also reflect the length of stay - unless Your Hilton provides daily housekeeping service.

 

[Disney Doc]

BCV is $2.39M - $0.7913/point. (Might support the argument that housekeeping at Disney is a "non-tipped" position...)

 

[CarolMN]

BCV is $2.39M - $0.7913/point. (Might support the argument that housekeeping at Disney is a "non-tipped" position...)

Employees (even those who receive minimum wage) are not cheap. I believe the Housekeeping budget includes all of the associated employee costs of the department - i.e., payroll taxes, insurance, vacation & sick pay, etc.

 

[abeyst]

I sure hope so!! I almost fell off my chair when I saw SSR was over $7M!! YOu'd think they clean rooms every night for that price!

 

[Chuck S]

Employees (even those who receive minimum wage) are not cheap. I believe the Housekeeping budget includes all of the associated employee costs of the department - i.e., payroll taxes, insurance, vacation & sick pay, etc.

I think it also includes the cleaning supplies, soaps, shampoo, etc.

 

[DebbieB]

What housekeeping services does HGVC include? I know many timeshares do not offer any cleaning services other than after checkout.

 

[wendyinoc]

Do we pay for housekeeping who pay cash with Disney?

 

[Doctor P]

I suspect the Hilton timeshare is also based on one week stays. Typically less cleaning involved with fewer "in and outs" for each unit.

 

[rkdahl]

Does your Hilton timeshare have the same number of check-in/checkouts? When figuring the lock-off villas, OKW has 761 total possible rooms and allows stays of as little as 1 night. Housekeeping charges will also reflect the length of stay - unless Your Hilton provides daily housekeeping service.

I suspect the Hilton timeshare is also based on one week stays. Typically less cleaning involved with fewer "in and outs" for each unit.

Hilton's timeshare program allows you to stay a minimum of 3 days on reserved points or 2 days minimum on their "open season" program which is bookings within 30 days of your stay. This is where they open availability of all inventory within a 30 window. In total you can book any length of stay from the 2/3 day minimum to however many your points can utilize. You can also choose any room size such as the studio, 1, 2, 3 bedroom.

So they do have a large number of check in/outs but I suspect somewhat less than DVC. Still that is a very large difference between $6M and $2.4M?

What housekeeping services does HGVC include? I know many timeshares do not offer any cleaning services other than after checkout.

HGVC offers mid week cleaning on weekly stays and then on check out. I'm not positive on longer than week stays, need to check that out. So I'd say it's not exactly like DVC, but similar.


So I still am not sure I understand why OKW is almost $4 million higher than the Hilton Grand Vacation Club resort with more rooms. And note that there are 46 3 bedrooms which I would think would take much longer than studios and 1 bedrooms to turn over.

 

[sjdisneywedding]

Does your Hilton timeshare have the same number of check-in/checkouts? When figuring the lock-off villas, OKW has 761 total possible rooms and allows stays of as little as 1 night. Housekeeping charges will also reflect the length of stay - unless Your Hilton provides daily housekeeping service.

something smells very fishy here

even using 761, they are telling us its costs $8,000 a year per room to keep clean?

I know thats not quite the way its figured, which actually makes it even worse

add in the fact there are rooms out of service and rooms on cash stays and it gets even worse

I know members can stay 1 night but thats no where near the average. what is the average room used, maybe 100 stays per year? max?

so it costs about $800 per stay to clean a room? lol no way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

lol, we are getting royally screwed

 

[diznyfanatic]

Hilton's timeshare program allows you to stay a minimum of 3 days on reserved points or 2 days minimum on their "open season" program which is bookings within 30 days of your stay. This is where they open availability of all inventory within a 30 window. In total you can book any length of stay from the 2/3 day minimum to however many your points can utilize. You can also choose any room size such as the studio, 1, 2, 3 bedroom.

So they do have a large number of check in/outs but I suspect somewhat less than DVC. Still that is a very large difference between $6M and $2.4M?



HGVC offers mid week cleaning on weekly stays and then on check out. I'm not positive on longer than week stays, need to check that out. So I'd say it's not exactly like DVC, but similar.


So I still am not sure I understand why OKW is almost $4 million higher than the Hilton Grand Vacation Club resort with more rooms. And note that there are 46 3 bedrooms which I would think would take much longer than studios and 1 bedrooms to turn over.

Bolding mine. Wow, that's a HUGE difference and you know it isn't because Disney pays it's Housekeeping staff any better.

I don't have our BWV or VWL budget information handy, does anyone know what the other resorts budget for housekeeping?

 

[Mickey'sApprentice]

I've often wondered if other timeshares have the very high occupancy rates of DVC resorts? I often hear about people purchasing fixed week timeshares in Gatlinburg that they rarely visit. I've also wondered how the "non-use" effects maintenance fees, etc.

Is HGVC a high occupancy timeshare?

I have to admit $8,000 / yr. per room seems excessive.

I'd love to hear the figures for our BWV.

 

[RobDoc]

something smells very fishy here

even using 761, they are telling us its costs $8,000 a year per room to keep clean?

I know thats not quite the way its figured, which actually makes it even worse

add in the fact there are rooms out of service and rooms on cash stays and it gets even worse

I know members can stay 1 night but thats no where near the average. what is the average room used, maybe 100 stays per year? max?

so it costs about $800 per stay to clean a room? lol no way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

lol, we are getting royally screwed

If you really do the math - and figure the different time needed for studios, 1BR villas, 2BR villas and GVs - the numbers don't seem out of line to me at all. Each DVC room is cleaned at least twice per week to some extent. The housekeeping costs do include laundry expense and sundries in addition to the salaries of the housekeeping staff. I'd actually expect that each villa is fully cleaned at least twice per week in addition to at least one T/T. In some cases rooms may even have more service provided than that if there are more than 2 check-ins per week. Thus, based on 52 weeks per year, each villa is fully cleaned at least 104 times plus another 52 partial cleans - I'd actually place the number of cleanings somewhere between 175 - 250 per year for each DVC villa. In addition to those events there are also associated costs when carpeting needs to be shampooed and when blankets and spreads need to be laundered.

Since we are comparing apples and organges here with 2 different resort systems, different occupancy rates, different length of stays and we are also uninformed regarding budgetary line items for the respective housekeeping costs, it is really difficult to understand or explain why one is higher or one is lower. Interesting discussion, but pretty fruitless without having some real data to compare.

 

[sjdisneywedding]

If you really do the math - and figure the different time needed for studios, 1BR villas, 2BR villas and GVs - the numbers don't seem out of line to me at all. Each DVC room is cleaned at least twice per week to some extent. The housekeeping costs do include laundry expense and sundries in addition to the salaries of the housekeeping staff. I'd actually expect that each villa is fully cleaned at least twice per week in addition to at least one T/T. In some cases rooms may even have more service provided than that if there are more than 2 check-ins per week. Thus, based on 52 weeks per year, each villa is fully cleaned at least 104 times plus another 52 partial cleans - I'd actually place the number of cleanings somewhere between 175 - 250 per year for each DVC villa. .

thats exactly what I am thinking

BUT, thats assuming each room is used in such as way to maximize the number of rooms, which realistically never happens

AND, doesnt take into account rooms out of service and used on cash

So, you are back down well below that, probably between 100-150

 

[RobDoc]

thats exactly what I am thinking

BUT, thats assuming each room is used in such as way to maximize the number of rooms, which realistically never happens

AND, doesnt take into account rooms out of service and used on cash

So, you are back down well below that, probably between 100-150

The member cash rooms actually add revenue to the DVC budget rather than adding expense, rooms out of service mostly come from the 2-4% owned by DVD and do not come from the member budget. As for the assertion that $8,000 per year is too much for cleaning DVC villas - it may be a little high for a studio, but for anything larger it would be a bargain when considering all of the associated direct costs and employment costs. I actually think a better question might be "Why are the HGVC housekeeping costs so low?"

As I said, we do not have the information necessary to truly understand everthing invloved with the DVC Housekeeping budget - let alone the budgets used by other timeshares and are thus trying to compare apples and oranges.

 

[mikesmom]

I'm not following the math here. Doing it another way, I divided $6 million by 365 days/year. That comes out to $16438/day. Divide that by 761 rooms and I get $21.60 per room per day. Yeah, I know not every room is cleaned every day, but even figuring a fourth of the rooms cleaned every day (not too far fetched if you figure 2 checkins per week), comes to about $85 per room. If you consider wages, benefits, cleaning supplies, etc I don't see that that is so far fetched.

 

[sjdisneywedding]

I'm not following the math here. Doing it another way, I divided $6 million by 365 days/year. That comes out to $16438/day. Divide that by 761 rooms and I get $21.60 per room per day. Yeah, I know not every room is cleaned every day, but even figuring a fourth of the rooms cleaned every day (not too far fetched if you figure 2 checkins per week), comes to about $85 per room. If you consider wages, benefits, cleaning supplies, etc I don't see that that is so far fetched.

its the same math, no matter what you are looking at

$21.60 per day per room = $7884 per year per room

Im guessing theres about 100 stays per room per year, so about $800 per stay

and again theres no way the average number of rooms used per day is anywhere near 761. you can probably wipe 50-100 rooms off of that on average

 

[sjdisneywedding]

The member cash rooms actually add revenue to the DVC budget rather than adding expense, rooms out of service mostly come from the 2-4% owned by DVD and do not come from the member budget. As for the assertion that $8,000 per year is too much for cleaning DVC villas - it may be a little high for a studio, but for anything larger it would be a bargain when considering all of the associated direct costs and employment costs. I actually think a better question might be "Why are the HGVC housekeeping costs so low?"

As I said, we do not have the information necessary to truly understand everthing invloved with the DVC Housekeeping budget - let alone the budgets used by other timeshares and are thus trying to compare apples and oranges.

thats my point -- the cash rooms and rooms out of service are not counted when determining these cost per night, cost per year comparisions

so there are not anywhere near 761 being cleaned on members dues, theres probably only somewhere between 650-700, average

so now we are talking almost $10,000 per year per member used room

I agree on the other timeshare expenses, you can only use that in realtive terms, since their expenses are not exact

just seems very high to me, considering the number of rooms that each CM cleans per day as well.

I guess you would have to break it down by expense and I realize there are a bunch of expenses

is it public knowledge to know how many housecleaners there are per resort?

 

[rkdahl]

Doc,
I hear ya on the apples and oranges thing. If I could come even close on reconciling this I wouldn't care as much but when I'm $3.6 million off.... I just don't see what it is.

Anyway...here's all it says on our 2008 HGVC budget relative to this topic:

HGVC Resort 2008
189 - 1BR; 479 - 2BR; 46 - 3BR (Studio's are lock-off's from 2 Br's but aren't 'sold' as timeshares)
Total: 37,128 unit/weeks

Housekeeping, Laundry, Supplies - Total $2,474,634

Per unit/week 1 Br $47.72
Per unit/week 2 Br $71.47
Per unit/week 3 Br $94.24

Other than that I'm not sure what else to look at.....