DVC has lost focus

[Lynne M]

Disney knows our value that's why their expanding DVC properties. And not the cash properties at the same rate.

I think you're misunderstanding Disney's motivation to build more DVC properties. It's because they make a lot of money by selling the shares of those properties, to new and existing members. It has nothing to do with the "value" of existing members. The division of the Disney company that you bought your DVC membership from, Disney Vacation Development, is a real estate developer. They build the DVC resorts, and they sell the DVC contracts. They exist to sell timeshares, and they have nothing to do with the building of cash properties like AoA.

I really do think that it would benefit you to pull out your contract and review it. Your expectations for DVC are not really in line with what you purchased, the way DVC works, or the way that timeshares in general work. I'm not trying to criticize you by saying that, not at all - you're frustrated with things the way they are, and I think a large part of that is because you thought DVC would give you certain things, and work a certain way, and it's not doing that.

I think looking at the contract would help you understand that you ARE getting what you purchased. It may not be what you want it to be, but that's a whole 'nother discussion.

 

[Lynne M]

What law says they can't raise prices per night? What is the statute that I can look up?

It's not a law. It's in your contract.

The total number of points per resort cannot change, per the contract. Therefore, if they raise points for a 1-bedroom at BLT for weeknights in a certain season, they must lower points for some other room type or season or day at BLT by a corresponding amount.

ETA: oops, sorry, just read tjkraz's post, and I was mistaken. You will see the statement of this in your contract, but it's also covered by FL timeshare law.

 

[Sandisw]

What law says they can't raise prices per night? What is the statute that I can look up?

The total number of points for a resort can not change once it is decided how many points that resort has. Those points must then be divided up to cover the stays for the year in the different rooms.


So, while adjustments can be made to the points charts in terms of individual room types, seasons, etc., everything on the chart can not simply go up--something must come down. Depending on an individual owners travel patterns, can their own use go up? Absolutely--but if it does, there is probably another member out there whose use went down.

What might be really helpful for you is to take out and read the POS for the resort or resorts that you own. I know when I first bought, I didn't do that immediately but have since and there is a lot of great information in there in terms of the timeshare that you own.

 

[tjkraz]

What law says they can't raise prices per night? What is the statute that I can look up?

It's the foundation of any timeshare system.

On your DVC deed the ownership is expressed in terms of a percentage of a given unit. If a unit has 10,000 points and you own 200 points, your deed says that you own 2% of unit ____.

The 10,000 points would be the number of points required to stay in that unit for the entire year. By law, that number CANNOT change, and DVC cannot sell more than 98% of that number.

It's no different than a fixed week timeshare system where each owner has a specific calendar week during which they can visit. For ever fixed week unit built, the developer cannot sell more than 52 weeks.

As for pricing, I'm not sure why you are so hung up on the price increases. Disney is under no obligation to increase point sales prices relative to any economic measure. All that matters is they believe they can get $160 per point. Period. End of story.

Are there fewer people who can afford DVC at $160 per point than at $100 per point? Yes, absolutely! The market is smaller. It will take Disney longer to sell the points and they will sell fewer points. HOWEVER, they will also make much more money per point sold.

Each resort is a $100+ Million construction project which dots the Walt Disney World landscape. Disney cannot keep building an infinite number of resorts lining WDW property. By all indications, their current approach is to sell fewer points for a higher price. Personally I'm not buying at $160 per but apparently others are. More power to 'em.

 

[Tiger926]

I am late to the party here, but interesting thread here!

We are a DVC family who spends way less now, then when we first purchased DVC. When we first purchased, we stayed in Studios as we only had 175 points, and so we ate 2-3 TS meals per day using DDE/TIW or DxDP, and this cost plenty!!!

Fast forward a few years later, and we added on to stay in 1 bedrooms, and we no longer eat in TS restaurants. We are saving thousands of dollars each trip on food alone, and that is thanks to staying in 1 bedrooms.

We now vacation so much differently than when we were non-DVC, and even then when we were first DVC.

Our DVC villa (we absolutely love OKW) is our home away from home. We cook, do laundry, eat out on the deck and swim, all of the things we do at home, and they don't cost anything extra.

As DVC members we spend less per trip than we did before we were DVC. Sure we spent a mint to become DVC, but on a per trip basis, we are spending less, as we also don't buy much of the cheap souvenir junk that Disney sells either.

We are grateful for our AP perk as that also saves us money too!

OP's replies are interesting, but I too see confusion about how DVC works as well as understanding basic supply and demand principles.

Happy travels to all, Tiger

 

[Lynne M]

We now vacation so much differently than when we were non-DVC, and even then when we were first DVC.

Our DVC villa (we absolutely love OKW) is our home away from home. We cook, do laundry, eat out on the deck and swim, all of the things we do at home, and they don't cost anything extra.

As DVC members we spend less per trip than we did before we were DVC.

This is true for me as well. I spend far, far less money on Disney property than I did before I became a member. On my last DVC stay (4 nights at VWL), we only went to a theme park one day. We didn't buy a single souvenir. We ate on property...let's see...three times. We spent our time enjoying the resort, shopping and dining off-property, and visiting friends.

The stay before that was much the same, except that we only ate on property twice.

 

[vakamalua]

I really do think that it would benefit you to pull out your contract and review it. Your expectations for DVC are not really in line with what you purchased, the way DVC works, or the way that timeshares in general work. I'm not trying to criticize you by saying that, not at all - you're frustrated with things the way they are, and I think a large part of that is because you thought DVC would give you certain things, and work a certain way, and it's not doing that.

I think looking at the contract would help you understand that you ARE getting what you purchased. It may not be what you want it to be, but that's a whole 'nother discussion.

We have been DVC members for 17 years. Last year, I was told directly by a MS CM that "all Disney owes you is any room that's available at your home resort for the number of points you have." Anyone who is a DVC member or considering purchase needs to keep that fact in mind--directly from the mouth of the Mouse.

HOWEVER, the disconnect in expectations vs reality of members and prospective buyers comes directly from the DVC salespersons. At every opportunity--on tours, phone calls, member presentations--the salespersons tout all the perks, benefits and "anytime, anywhere" vacation possibilities. Disney Cruise Line is a good example of a travel opportunity that is "sold hard" by DVC without mentioning the small inventory of cabins allotted for DVC point use that makes it difficult to book a cruise. Perhaps it's time for a a reality check of what happens after the sale for all the exuberant salespersons.

The point is that, for such a large investment, you need to know what it is that you're buying. BUT future sales depend a great deal on word of mouth and sales will not happen if DVC has an unhappy, frustrated membership base that has to deal with calling MS the minute that their window opens only to be told there is no availability, property housekeeping and maintenance issues, lack of trained and informed CMs in member services and on-site, and the atmosphere of members feeling devalued.

 

[tjkraz]

BUT future sales depend a great deal on word of mouth and sales will not happen if DVC has an unhappy, frustrated membership base that has to deal with calling MS the minute that their window opens only to be told there is no availability, property housekeeping and maintenance issues, lack of trained and informed CMs in member services and on-site, and the atmosphere of members feeling devalued.

By all appearances, there is a pretty big disconnect between membership as a whole and the vocal minority on some Disney websites. DVC's own member surveys (communicated in Disney Files) have shown a very high member satisfaction rating. The independent Market Metrix ratings have had DVC as the top rated timeshare for years.

No matter what business you are discussing, there are unsatisfied customers. The mistake comes in believing that they represent the whole.

I have to chuckle when people bring up the topic of member perks somehow being worse than they were years ago. In the last 6-9 months DVC members have received a higher AP discount, access to the Tables in Wonderland card, periodic discounts at The Disney Store, new golf discount, discounts on Disney marathons and more. That's in addition to the resort-wide wifi and new cable channels added across property.

Sorry but I just don't see how perks are worse than they were when we bought 9 years ago. And I don't see any evidence of widespread dissatisfaction among the membership.

 

[matthew517]

DISNEY owns the property. They either let DVC build or another business entity gets to build. It all has to do with who will make the best business sense.

Clearly DVC is a better business sense. Sell a bunch of points and collect upkeep. Rent out what is not booked or traded away. It is a win win solution.

Yes I bought points not a room. A traditional time share is that. You buy a room during a week.

What was marketed was buy points at a home resort. This allows 11 month out booking at that resort.
Or use the points to book at other resorts or Adventures by Disney or DCL.

As owners we can ask for benefits. Are we entitled to any no.

Just as citizens of this country are we entitled to schools, roads or healthcare?
No we are not. The constitution does say that we are entitled to any of that. Yes we ask for it.

Im not selling my DVC. It has paid for itself. And im happy with my home resort.

 

[Muushka]

Ugh. I just had a long typed explanation of how our cost per night has gone up, but lost it and so not in the mood to type it again!

Bottom line:
(It was $3.62 per point when we bought and it is now $5.04 and it was 22 points a night it is now 28)

Our 1 BR at VWL has increased (in maint fees and points per night) from $81.45 a night to $141.12 a night

The cost of admission to WDW has doubled.

We no longer have the number of points to spend 10 nights, which is fine because with the price of admission we no longer have the desire to visit more than once a year. And will not buy any more points.

I loved our VWL, and WDW, but frankly, it is just not worth the $$ any more.

I think I have Mr Muush almost convinced to sell at least 1 contract!

 

[matthew517]

Bottom line is if your happy buying add ons at prices double what the were a year ago great. Great more power to you.

If you believe add on points should be more regulated to slower growth then ok as well.

I just love you DVC employees telling us how unjustified we are to voice opinions and desires.
Be good members drink the cool aid and we'll tell you how good things are.

 

[BEASLYBOO]

Unfortunately, Disney's/DVC's focus was/is/will always be to make money!

My "focus" when I was making the decision to purchase DVC was, "Could "how" I vacation fit into a timeshare scenario?" Most timeshares, no! DVC , yes! Perks weren't part of the decision. From the DIS I knew reallocation was possible if not probable. I also knew that the possibility existed that DVC may someday decide to restrict resort access only to my home resort, thus why I picked where I prefer to stay, OKW.

In 12 years, I've gotten what I paid and signed on the dotted line for. I've planned ahead and never been denied a vacation time I chose. I've had clean , well appointed villas, generally 2brs! Sure the reallocations have not been in my favor but it hasn't changed how I vacation. Yes, park tickets have gone up, food/restaurants have gone up but my expectations remained the same! I can't blame Disney/DVC for the economy. I never expected that I would save money on a Disney vacation or any vacation for that matter. Boy, I've given Disney a lot of my money over the years! There is only one thing that's surpassed my expectations, and that is the joy that sharing my DVC with friends and family would bring my son and I!

The most important part in a purchase of this nature is to do your due diligence, read the contract, get info from the DIS and other sites, know what you're buying into. Doing my homework led me to have reasonable expectations as to what DVC would do for me and after 12 years we're still going strong, and no, I'm not a drink the cool aid kind of person!

Now, would I buy in at today's DVC direct prices, absolutely not, but then again I didn't buy direct in 2000 either, I bought resale!

 

[Chuck S]

What law says they can't raise prices per night? What is the statute that I can look up?

Again, if they raise points on some nights, there HAS to be a balance elsewhere, as we have seen with every reallocation to date, including the BLT reallocation, because the increases were offset by adding more rooms to the standard view category. They can NOT raise the points required overall for a resort as a specific number of points per resort are available. There is also a maximum reallocation listed in the POS for your resort. This is all regulated by the Division of Florida Condominiums. There is where you'll find the statutes petaining to all Timeshares and Vacation Clubs in the state.

 

[tjkraz]

I just love you DVC employees telling us how unjustified we are to voice opinions and desires.
Be good members drink the cool aid and we'll tell you how good things are.

Oh, please. Just because others disagree with your POV doesn't make anyone a blind Disney sycophant. Sounds like many people commenting have a better understanding of Disney's motivations and more realistic expectations of how they operate.

Nobody ever said that you shouldn't request additional perks or benefits from DVC. I suspect they have been able to negotiate certain benefits based upon member feedback--the Tables in Wonderland card comes immediately to mind.

But if you think a letter writing campaign is going to convince Disney to discount points 20-30% off of their current levels, you are kidding yourself.

 

[Tiger926]

Oh, please. Just because others disagree with your POV doesn't make anyone a blind Disney sycophant. Sounds like many people commenting have a better understanding of Disney's motivations and more realistic expectations of how they operate.

Nobody ever said that you shouldn't request additional perks or benefits from DVC. I suspect they have been able to negotiate certain benefits based upon member feedback--the Tables in Wonderland card comes immediately to mind.

But if you think a letter writing campaign is going to convince Disney to discount points 20-30% off of their current levels, you are kidding yourself.

Tiger

 

[DebbieB]

Bottom line is if your happy buying add ons at prices double what the were a year ago great. Great more power to you.

If you believe add on points should be more regulated to slower growth then ok as well.

I just love you DVC employees telling us how unjustified we are to voice opinions and desires.
Be good members drink the cool aid and we'll tell you how good things are.

Regulated by who? It's a private business. They sell at what the market will bear. If they were not selling at current prices, they would lower them. It does not appear that sales are lagging. Why do they have an obligation to hold prices down?

tjkraz listed all the recent benefit increases. But you want more? I've had an AP since 1998 and only around 2004 did members get a discount (-$100) and the discount was just increased recently (-$149). With the AP, you get a 10% discount on merchandise.

I spend far less than I used to. How many Disney shirts or trinkets do I need? If they offered 25% off merchandise, I still would not buy much.

 

[Tiger926]

Regulated by who? It's a private business. They sell at what the market will bear. If they were not selling at current prices, they would lower them. It does not appear that sales are lagging. Why do they have an obligation to hold prices down?

tjkraz listed all the recent benefit increases. But you want more? I've had an AP since 1998 and only around 2004 did members get a discount (-$100) and the discount was just increased recently (-$149). With the AP, you get a 10% discount on merchandise.

I spend far less than I used to. How many Disney shirts or trinkets do I need? If they offered 25% off merchandise, I still would not buy much.

I don't understand this rant by the OP about lowering point prices either.

DVC is selling, and selling well, so they should be charging higher prices, as people are willing to pay that.

All of us can pat ourselves on the back for what great deals we got, and most of us have already said we would never pay the current market prices for DVC, but perhaps OP wants to purchase GF and is feeling that the price is too high?

I can't see any other reason why he would be so bent on having DVC lower prices, depsite high sales, besides a selfish interest like an add-on, or perhaps a family member who would like to purchase, but can't afford to at current prices?

As I mentioned, we spend less than before, but there are lots of perks that we enjoy too, and we are grateful for those!

Tiger

 

[Tara]

Bottom line is if your happy buying add ons at prices double what the were a year ago great. Great more power to you.

If you believe add on points should be more regulated to slower growth then ok as well.

I just love you DVC employees telling us how unjustified we are to voice opinions and desires.
Be good members drink the cool aid and we'll tell you how good things are.

Give me a break. You have your opinion. Others have theirs. It's disappointing I'm sure when people don't jump on your bandwagon so that you can feel justified in your rant, but that's life. No need to be insulting to those who happen to disagree with you.

 

[holcomb-mania]

I bought into DVC for 50 years of access to a room, with the ability to use those points elsewhere if I desired (NY, SF, etc.).

Any perk or benefit is gravy.

 

[DougEMG]

I think what this thread is showing is that those people who understand exactly what they are buying are the most happiest with their purchase. So the best advice one can give any one who is looking at buying DVC is to totally research the product and understand exactly what you are buying.

The short version is you are buying the right to book a room at your home with a 1 month advantage over other members.

Don't buy because of a perk, they can be removed at any time. Perks are a nice bonus and enjoy them while they are there.

Myself, I'm in the camp that really likes their DVC. Love that AP discount