DVC has lost focus

[Muushka]

I think what this thread is showing is that those people who understand exactly what they are buying are the most happiest with their purchase. So the best advice one can give any one who is looking at buying DVC is to totally research the product and understand exactly what you are buying.

The short version is you are buying the right to book a room at your home with a 1 month advantage over other members.

Don't buy because of a perk, they can be removed at any time. Perks are a nice bonus and enjoy them while they are there.

Myself, I'm in the camp that really likes their DVC. Love that AP discount

I agree with most everything you said.

(except)

The short version is you are buying the right to book a room at your home with a 1 month advantage over other members.

Did the 4 month booking perk get taken away too???

I understood that maintenance fees would go up. Check

I understood that point requirements could be switched around. Check.

I just didn't realize or understand just how much these reallocation's could adversely affect us.
In addition to the vast increases in ticket media prices, the place (WDW) that drew us to DVC.
Owning DVC just doesn't make a lot of sense to me right now.

I'm not asking DVC to change for me, I know many people like these new allocations.

It is just one example why someone like me is not that crazy about DVC anymore.

 

[RobDoc]

I agree with most everything you said.

(except)

The short version is you are buying the right to book a room at your home with a 1 month advantage over other members.

Did the 4 month booking perk get taken away too???

All that we are guaranteed is a 1 month reservation priority at our Home Resort. It has always been 4 months, but could be reduced to 1 month if DVC were to make that decision.

This is the type of thing Doug was trying to point out with some of his comments. It is the responsibility of each of us to understand what we have purchased and what could change without any warning or any input from us as owners - since we already agreed to these terms when we purchased.

To quote Pogo Possum - "We have met the enemy ... and he is us!"

 

[Muushka]

All that we are guaranteed is a 1 month reservation priority at our Home Resort. It has always been 4 months, but could be reduced to 1 month if DVC were to make that decision.

This is the type of thing Doug was trying to point out with some of his comments. It is the responsibility of each of us to understand what we have purchased and what could change without any warning or any input from us as owners - since we already agreed to these terms when we purchased.

To quote Pogo Possum - "We have met the enemy ... and he is us!"

I was afraid it had changed already!

 

[Kidanifan08]

I think what this thread is showing is that those people who understand exactly what they are buying are the most happiest with their purchase. So the best advice one can give any one who is looking at buying DVC is to totally research the product and understand exactly what you are buying.

Myself, I'm in the camp that really likes their DVC. Love that AP discount

I think that there are some DVC owners who did not completely understand exactly what they were buying, but can be the most happiest, as well. I think that I am one of them! We purchased AKV direct in 2008 (when the $/pt was south of $100). My BIL has owned OKW since the mid-90's, loves his DVC, and so we figured we would love it as well. We did zero research before taking the tour and buying, other than what my BIL told us. I remember sitting in the sales room dreaming of using our points for cruises, frequent DVC vacations in ALL of the DVC resorts, and signing on the dotted line with a big smile on my face. I knew nothing about the importance of my UY, vaguely understood banking/borrowing/transfers, and thought I bought the perfect amount of points for my needs thinking they would never do a point reallocation that would affect me.

In 2011, I found this place, and have learned a wealth of information about my DVC ownership since then. I also found out that I did not have enough points (due to the point reallocation that was never going to happen ), so I have done 3 small add-ons over the past year (after paying off the original DVC loan over 2 years at 11%). I understand my Dec UY, but realize that there is not a perfect UY based on our travel patterns. I have become a banking/borrowing/transfer wizard, although I wish I did not have that small Aug UY contract at this point. I have also watched DVC raise the points for cruises out of a reasonable range, which is fine, since I want to save my pennies for a concierge level DCL someday!

Through it all, we have been the most happiest DVC members like many of the others on this board. We have had great trips and I, too, am an AP discount fan. I am just really glad that we bought when we did, because I don't know if I could have purchased as many points as we originally bought buying direct at 2012 DVC prices. More power to them for selling at that level. I'm sure they are breeding a whole new group of soon to be "disgruntled" or "most happiest" owners, depending on the buyers intentions going into the deal.

To stay on topic, I don't thing DVC/DVD has lost focus, but I do think the pricing is rather obscene compared to when I bought just 4 years ago. It's a credit to their selling power that they can keep cranking the price, despite this dismal economy, and keep selling like they are. I am just glad I found the resale market and bought in 2008!

 

[Brian Noble]

despite this dismal economy

Side note, but "this dismal economy" isn't nearly what you seem to be implying, for two reasons. First, travel has already made a *substantial* comeback. Not just Disney, but many businesses are seeing increased strength in travel/leisure demands---airlines, hoteliers, and even other theme park operators. Second, even in the midst of the downturn, different groups of people were subject to different sets of pressures. For example, white collar employees were, on average, much less impacted than blue collar ones. Now, guess where most of DVC's prospective buyers come from?

 

[Ragnrok23]

All that we are guaranteed is a 1 month reservation priority at our Home Resort. It has always been 4 months, but could be reduced to 1 month if DVC were to make that decision.

Does that mean we will always be able to book at other resort other than our home? I own at BLT, so I would be fine if thats all I could book, but do still dream of trying all the resorts one day

 

[wdwdano@yahoo.com]

Disney does sell rooms for cash when there are no DVC rooms. There are two separate inventories, Disney retains about 4% of each resort and rents rooms that DVC members have traded into Disney for other vacations such as cruises and Adventures By Disney. Those rooms should not be available to DVC members because they are not part of DVC inventory. It has nothing to do with greed, it's the way the system works. I have been a member for 11 years and have seen benefits come and go. When you sign the contract benefits should not be part of the decision because they are not part of what you're purchasing. Benefits are to be considered only a perk. Frankly the benefits levels have stayed pretty consistent. One benefit that I use that wasn't available when I purchased is the discount on AP's. The addition of the ability to purchase the TIW card when you don't have an AP or are a Florida resident was a nice addition to the benefits as well.
DVC is not a not for profit business. As with all businesses they will charge as much as the market will bear. Maybe you've lost some of that magic feeling you had when you purchased, but DVC hasn't changed. The member cruise has always been like a floating advertisement for add ons. I have done two and the fun I had meeting other members is why I went on.

See I disagree. When I was sold my membership, I have to say that I was told that these were direct benefits to owning membership. On our tour it was a big thing to point out valet service and hotub/steam room access. If the perks are just perks they should not be a part of the tour. That is why they said that when I first bought membership, we had services like valet parking, and spa and whirlpool access. I also was told about many more that have gone away.

On the other hand(devils advocate) I understand business operations very well and the last 5 or so years have been a belt tightening time. If you are trying to remain profitable you have to cut programs that cost money. Hence why we lost housekeeping and only receive every 5 days. I personally think it should be every three days because it can reduce wear and tear over time.

Customers have purchased into DVC for the "Best kept secret" and the Magic and frankly the customer service. I feel that a part of that is missing now a days and it is almost equal to a purchase at Marriot.

Don't get me wrong I still love my membership and use it every year but my loyalty has dipped majorly.

 

[vicki_c]

f you are trying to remain profitable you have to cut programs that cost money. Hence why we lost housekeeping and only receive every 5 days. I personally think it should be every three days because it can reduce wear and tear over time.

We haven't lost any housekeeping that I'm aware of - it is still on the same schedule in the almost 5 years I have been a member.

I truly did not buy DVC because owning DVC was sold to me as magical. I bought it because we were starting to go to Disney a lot - only stayed in deluxe properties - and I didn't see that changing in the near future. I didn't even know there were some of the perks and discounts when I purchased, nor do I recall discussing anything like that with my guide. Only using points for stays, RCI, cruises, I guess was what they focused on.

 

[Tiger926]

See I disagree. When I was sold my membership, I have to say that I was told that these were direct benefits to owning membership. On our tour it was a big thing to point out valet service and hotub/steam room access. If the perks are just perks they should not be a part of the tour. That is why they said that when I first bought membership, we had services like valet parking, and spa and whirlpool access. I also was told about many more that have gone away.

On the other hand(devils advocate) I understand business operations very well and the last 5 or so years have been a belt tightening time. If you are trying to remain profitable you have to cut programs that cost money. Hence why we lost housekeeping and only receive every 5 days. I personally think it should be every three days because it can reduce wear and tear over time.

Customers have purchased into DVC for the "Best kept secret" and the Magic and frankly the customer service. I feel that a part of that is missing now a days and it is almost equal to a purchase at Marriot.

Don't get me wrong I still love my membership and use it every year but my loyalty has dipped majorly.

What about the perks we have received since then: AP discount & TIW card being two of them.

Sure some perks have gone away, but others have come in their place.

Tiger

 

[wdwdano@yahoo.com]

"Greed" is not involved at all - fiduciary responsibility to shareholders is the reality.

I'm a Disney shareholder - I've given them my hard-earned investment funds, and I expect them to wisely use them to increase my value. Let's say the CEO were to tell me "you know, Tess, our marketing folks researched the issue and reported that we could easily sell the new DVC at $XX/point. However, we decided that we would be too "greedy" if we did that, so we are going to sell at a price point considerably less. We have also decided to be less "greedy" in many of our other operations here at Disney. We're sure that you and your other shareholders - incuding retirement plans with fixed income retirees - want to share the "magic" with everyone and will not mind us essentially reducing your share value."

If that happened, I would 1. sell my shares and/or 2. get involved with a hostile investor movement to kick management to the street.

This is a free country, and free enterprise is still the best working model, despite what you might hear from Washington. Prices should be determined by what the market will bear. Nobody, including Disney, is holding a gun to anybody and making them pay those (agreeably insane) direct prices. If they cannot sell them at those prices, the prices will come down.

As a Disney shareholder, and DVC owner by resale, I am currently very happy with my DVC and with Disney corporate.

Great point, but at what level does Disney start to see the profit curve start to plane out because the prices are to high for the guests to enjoy.

I constantly get letters from my DVC guide offering me the latest and greatest "Specials". I am almost paid up on my loan and I was thinking of adding on 75 or 100 points. Well, I can't do that now because all the price increases since I bought in.

We are not talking about pennies and dimes. This is 30-40 dollars per point during a recession. That is "per point" I repeat. Even if I wanted to I couldn't do that during a recession.

Now I am also a shareholder and the stocks are doing well. Bob Iger has a goal of 60 dollars a share and he is surely making profits. The stock continues to go up. Those profits are the result of raising ticket prices year over year(100+) 3D theater prices, and many other services hikes like dining plans and more.

My point is, it is way above the market basket for inflation. It is bordering on price gouging. At what point do we say "I just can't go anymore because it makes me broke and I can't feed my family"?

 

[wdwdano@yahoo.com]

We haven't lost any housekeeping that I'm aware of - it is still on the same schedule in the almost 5 years I have been a member.

I truly did not buy DVC because owning DVC was sold to me as magical. I bought it because we were starting to go to Disney a lot - only stayed in deluxe properties - and I didn't see that changing in the near future. I didn't even know there were some of the perks and discounts when I purchased, nor do I recall discussing anything like that with my guide. Only using points for stays, RCI, cruises, I guess was what they focused on.

I was talking about how it was before that schedule they came all the time. I bought in because it was something I saw value in. I love the parks, customer service, and memorable experience. For that my membership has been priceless. I just don't know if it is going to stay magical at the pricing points.

 

[Tiger926]

Great point, but at what level does Disney start to see the profit curve start to plane out because the prices are to high for the guests to enjoy.

I constantly get letters from my DVC guide offering me the latest and greatest "Specials". I am almost paid up on my loan and I was thinking of adding on 75 or 100 points. Well, I can't do that now because all the price increases since I bought in.

We are not talking about pennies and dimes. This is 30-40 dollars per point during a recession. That is "per point" I repeat. Even if I wanted to I couldn't do that during a recession.

Now I am also a shareholder and the stocks are doing well. Bob Iger has a goal of 60 dollars a share and he is surely making profits. The stock continues to go up. Those profits are the result of raising ticket prices year over year(100+) 3D theater prices, and many other services hikes like dining plans and more.

My point is, it is way above the market basket for inflation. It is bordering on price gouging. At what point do we say "I just can't go anymore because it makes me broke and I can't feed my family"?

Ummm, if someone is at that point, they have no business owing DVC in the first place, IMHO.

Disney is a vacation, which is a luxury, and DVC is even more of a luxury purchase since you have to put up thousands of dollars upfront for a lifetime of vacations.

I am not following you here...Tiger

 

[WilsonFlyer]

See I disagree. When I was sold my membership, I have to say that I was told that these were direct benefits to owning membership. On our tour it was a big thing to point out valet service and hotub/steam room access. If the perks are just perks they should not be a part of the tour. That is why they said that when I first bought membership, we had services like valet parking, and spa and whirlpool access. I also was told about many more that have gone away.

On the other hand(devils advocate) I understand business operations very well and the last 5 or so years have been a belt tightening time. If you are trying to remain profitable you have to cut programs that cost money. Hence why we lost housekeeping and only receive every 5 days. I personally think it should be every three days because it can reduce wear and tear over time.

Customers have purchased into DVC for the "Best kept secret" and the Magic and frankly the customer service. I feel that a part of that is missing now a days and it is almost equal to a purchase at Marriot.

Don't get me wrong I still love my membership and use it every year but my loyalty has dipped majorly.

This is kinda where I am and I simply couldn't have said it much better.

 

[tjkraz]

I also was told about many more that have gone away.

Like what?

And what has been added over the same timeframe? Was the AP discount part of your sales pitch? TIW? Free Internet? Discounts for MVMCP, MNSSHP, marathon events, etc.?

 

[DebbieB]

What about the perks we have received since then: AP discount & TIW card being two of them.

Sure some perks have gone away, but others have come in their place.

Tiger

People only seem to dwell on perks lost. They can keep their free valet, I'm happy with the AP discount and the recent increase. The extra $49 would pay for 4 valet parkings.

As far as housekeeping, that has not changed since I bought in 1999. That comes out of member dues anyway, not DVC's pocket.

 

[WolfpackFan]

Not sure what all the complaining is about. We are just as happy now with our DVC purchase as we were when we first made it 9 years ago.

 

[wdwdano@yahoo.com]

What about the perks we have received since then: AP discount & TIW card being two of them.

Sure some perks have gone away, but others have come in their place.

Tiger

Very true, and those are actually perks. But perks are relative to those perk booklets and they have changed over time. The things I am saying are not in the booklets they were directly attached to the membership at the time they were selling the units. Like for example pool hopping. You originally could go to most pools except for Yacht and Beach if you were not staying there. Now the list has grown. I don't pool hop ever but I have noticed that this is another one that keeps changing.

Maybe there are more being taken away than being added? Could be why this same conversation keeps coming up. We should start a spreadsheet. LOL

 

[wdwdano@yahoo.com]

Not sure what all the complaining is about. We are just as happy now with our DVC purchase as we were when we first made it 9 years ago.

I would say slightly less happy and slightly more aggravated.

I am still very excited about AKL and F+W this year in October!

 

[Kidanifan08]

Side note, but "this dismal economy" isn't nearly what you seem to be implying, for two reasons. First, travel has already made a *substantial* comeback. Not just Disney, but many businesses are seeing increased strength in travel/leisure demands---airlines, hoteliers, and even other theme park operators. Second, even in the midst of the downturn, different groups of people were subject to different sets of pressures. For example, white collar employees were, on average, much less impacted than blue collar ones. Now, guess where most of DVC's prospective buyers come from?

I agree that most of DVC's prospective buyers come from that demographic, and that group clearly appears to be DVC's "focus". I am just amazed that the same AKV points I purchased 4 years ago are 30-35% higher now, as nothing else seems to have grown that fast. I am not saying it's wrong . . . it's just . . . amazing.

Maybe by moving to this price point there will be fewer people buying who perhaps should not have bought in the first place and DVC won't have to deal with taking back and trying to unload distressed contracts?

 

[DebbieB]

Very true, and those are actually perks. But perks are relative to those perk booklets and they have changed over time. The things I am saying are not in the booklets they were directly attached to the membership at the time they were selling the units. Like for example pool hopping. You originally could go to most pools except for Yacht and Beach if you were not staying there. Now the list has grown. I don't pool hop ever but I have noticed that this is another one that keeps changing.

Maybe there are more being taken away than being added? Could be why this same conversation keeps coming up. We should start a spreadsheet. LOL

The resorts added to the no pool hopping list were new resorts (AKL, BLT, AoA). No location was taken away.

We got free internet when everyone else was paying if they wanted it. Now everyone is free, do you count that as a perk lost?

Other than valet parking, I can't think of anything major we lost. The deal with that was valet parking was outsourced so dues would have been increased to keep the benefit.