DVC has lost focus

[matthew517]

Sure we have leverage. How do we not.
We account for a large percentage of their revenue. All you have to look at is the hotels in the area. They offer incentives to get people to stay there. Why because people will spend money there.

Look at the season passes. If you stay twice its a good value to you. If you go often and don't spend money disney losses.

If they offered 10 or 15% discounts across the board for DVC members they would sell more items. And make more money. People tend to spend more if they are thinking their getting a good deal.

The free meals for cash customers is a example. More people come and they end up spending more money on merchandise.

Grocery stores do it all the time offering discounts for members they know they will buy more. Their doing up here for gas. Every 100 is 10 cents off a gal. People tend to shop there more to save on gas.

 

[matthew517]

What happens if we tell people negative things about DVC and those people don't buy will it impact our stays no. Less sales mean more availability and better incentives for add ons. Where happy members mean more grass roots marketing from members like me and you and more sales.

 

[Cmbar]

For what it is worth, I agree with you Matt. I only bought in 2009 but I only paid $97 for BLT back then. We were on the Fantasy last week and went to the Member event to get the free mimosas!! I would love to have more points but wouldn't consider spending the ridiculous amount of money they are asking to add on to BLT. So no NOT worth it to me and they have priced out of our market at least. Sure there will be others that will pay those prices but it will not be us. I already am bored with the choices DVC offers. Don't ever want to go back to OKW or SSR, which is all you can really get unless you book early.

And I don't think they are selling as fast as they can build them. We were told BLT would be sold in a year when we bought more than THREE years ago. And they are STILL selling AKV. I mean how many years is that? Aulani has to be a tough sell. I think GF will sell easier but at that price, nope I will take my chances at 7 months.

There is a point at which you realize it is not as good a deal as you thought. I know that if I was paying 150 per point it has to be a much longer break even point. For some it is addictive to own and stay at DVC. For us it is just a nice thing to have. I would rather cruise on DCL than go to the parks. So I will either use points for that or rent them to pay for the cruise.

I used to love to talk about DVC, now I just say -EH! its ok. I talked my Dsis out of buying more points. Just not that exciting for me and don't like they way the are now treating resale contracts. I bought direct, but I just think they are getting greedy and so they have at least lost me as a "sales rep". No biggie, so no one has to get back on the board and tell me Disney won't miss me..... I know!

 

[Sammie]

I was not happy with the focus DVC was taking with Jim Lewis the last couple years of his term but that problem was taken care of.

I am very happy with the way things are now and where they going.

I like the perks but I also realize all I bought was a room. Nothing more.

As to the cash reservation comments, I never ever understand those comments. Rooms are available for cash due to either it being the small part that Disney owns about 2-3%, or due to members trading out and Disney selling those rooms to pay for the trades, or at 60 days members not booking the rooms and Disney putting them up for cash.

If they did not do this, the system would not work. They are not a charity.

Plus you really have to realize and think of DVC and Disney Parks, Disney Resorts, Disney Food and Beverage, Disney Transportation, Disney Tickets, Disney Merchandise as different entities with just the same first name.

If and if is the big word, there was a financial advantage for each one of the above listed departments to offer a large discount or perk to DVC, then they would do it. Just to do it because we bought DVC is not a good enough reason.

And yes there are resort guests that spend much more on a stay than DVC members do.

 

[Chuck S]

What happens if we tell people negative things about DVC and those people don't buy will it impact our stays no. Less sales mean more availability and better incentives for add ons. Where happy members mean more grass roots marketing from members like me and you and more sales.

Not true, fewer sales does not impact DVC Room availability at all. Units are not declared into DVC Inventory unless they need the points to sell.

For instance, at OKW a "unit" is a building, at other resorts a "unit" is a group of villas. If sales slumped, and they did not need the points in the sales pool, the unit would not be declared into DVC...it would remain a cash only room until they needed those points in the sales pool.

For instance, if only 15% of Aulani is sold, only 15% of the villas would be available to DVCers on points, the rest would remain as cash rooms.

When Aulani construction is finished, it does not mean all of the villa rooms will suddenly be available to DVC...only the percentage of villas that have points sold in them.

 

[Chuck S]

Sure we have leverage. How do we not.
We account for a large percentage of their revenue.

Hardly. The total number of DVC guests, even if all resorts were full, would be small compared to the overall resort system...especially if you include the discounted non-Disney hotels that also offer WDW packages (like those on Hotel Blvd by DtD.

 

[DebbieB]

What happens if we tell people negative things about DVC and those people don't buy will it impact our stays no. Less sales mean more availability and better incentives for add ons. Where happy members mean more grass roots marketing from members like me and you and more sales.

I wonder how many new members talk to a current member as part of their decision process? I doubt many. Plus you are assuming that the majority of members are unhappy, which I don't think is true. If someone asked me what I thought of DVC, I'd say it was the best vacation decision I ever made. Over the life of the contact I'm getting about a 60% room discount. My initial purchase is long paid off and I'm paying $117 a month in dues for a couple of great vacations a year. I don't see the point of whining over not getting discounts or benefits that were not part of the contract you signed. Sure I'd love them but I'm not expecting them. All I expect is DVC to live up to the contract I signed.

 

[Lynne M]

Sure we have leverage. How do we not.
We account for a large percentage of their revenue. All you have to look at is the hotels in the area. They offer incentives to get people to stay there. Why because people will spend money there.

But DVC is a timeshare, not a hotel chain. Very, very different business model. If you're expecting a timeshare to give you incentives to stay like a hotel does....well, I'm afraid you're not going to be a very happy timeshare owner.

 

[Missyrose]

I wonder how many new members talk to a current member as part of their decision process? I doubt many. Plus you are assuming that the majority of members are unhappy, which I don't think is true. If someone asked me what I thought of DVC, I'd say it was the best vacation decision I ever made. Over the life of the contact I'm getting about a 60% room discount. My initial purchase is long paid off and I'm paying $117 a month in dues for a couple of great vacations a year. I don't see the point of whining over not getting discounts or benefits that were not part of the contract you signed. Sure I'd love them but I'm not expecting them. All I expect is DVC to live up to the contract I signed.

Very well put Debbie!

 

[matthew517]

Im happy with my decision of DVC. Can it be improved yes. Can it happen by doing nothing but hoping it will change no.

My understanding is we have a vote if enough members give their vote to someone to want change I believe change will happen.

 

[keishashadow]

Sure we have leverage. How do we not.
We account for a large percentage of their revenue. All you have to look at is the hotels in the area. They offer incentives to get people to stay there. Why because people will spend money there.

Look at the season passes. If you stay twice its a good value to you. If you go often and don't spend money disney losses.

If they offered 10 or 15% discounts across the board for DVC members they would sell more items. And make more money. People tend to spend more if they are thinking their getting a good deal.

The free meals for cash customers is a example. More people come and they end up spending more money on merchandise.

Grocery stores do it all the time offering discounts for members they know they will buy more. Their doing up here for gas. Every 100 is 10 cents off a gal. People tend to shop there more to save on gas.

DVC = MGM (Mouse Got our Money - already).

imo somebody who has visited WDW a few times a year for several years (i.e., a DVC member) isn't likely to be the target for an increased % off promotion unless it included 'the good stuff' (art, arrabis, lenox).

I assume you're mentioning free dining not as a want for DVC members but as illustration that guests will spend more overall if booking a package that includes free dining. In that case, I disagree. Unless disney institutes a reward system where park-related purchases are tied into a reward card, you can't fairly compare it to a grocery store program. The FDP is very popular but not always the best value when you run the numbers for various promos, rack rate is scary expensive at many resorts.

OP - If you want to start a campaign to email member services, determine exactly what you'd like to see offered and start a specific thread here. We've had successful grass root movements in the past. Members vigorously lobbied member services during the year that the dining plan was rolled out and it was offered in January of the following year. It could've been already in the works but I'd like to think they listened to the members. Many of us had experienced the plan when booking thru CRO and wanted to be included during our DVC stays in what was then a great deal vs the current one of convenience offering. Being able to purchase it without required tix media is still a valuable perc to many.

 

[Chuck S]

Im happy with my decision of DVC. Can it be improved yes. Can it happen by doing nothing but hoping it will change no.

My understanding is we have a vote if enough members give their vote to someone to want change I believe change will happen.

We have a vote? Really, have we ever voted on anything...rules changes, points changes, whether to add new resorts to the system?

If you think we, as members, have any sort of a significant voting right, you are sadly mistaken. Our voting rights are assigned to a representive on the board, selected by the board. We would only vote in extremely unusual circumstances, and it would be very costly to us financially, as every member would have to be notified, vote, have those votes counted and certified. All of which would be paid by dues.

It is the same with most timeshares, it allows the developer to do what they need, it saves a lot of costs. And really, can you imagine trying to get 400K+ owners to agree on anything? DVC would look like a swing designed by a commitee.

 

[matthew517]

If a person were to ask me if DVC was a good value at the current price structure I would say it depends on if your going to WDW or DCL every year for the next 14 years. Then it would pay for it self.

But the incentives that they offer cash customers like free meal plan and park tickets is a better deal.

Since I have a family of 6 it works for us.


There was a comment about has my pay gone up in the past 15 years.

Yes. By 15% over those years. But not in the past 5 years. Most places have kept raises in the past 5 years on hold due to the economy. And trying not to lay people off. The country is in a depression. And unemployment is over 18 percent if you don't drop those unemployed more than a year or stopped looking for a job like the government does to make the situation look better than it is.

Only industries that were bailed out see raises that compare to the dvc price increases.

But that is chalk and cheese.

Bottom line is prices have gone up in the last year more then they went up in 20 years. It is what the market is allowing them to get. Ok fine. DVC has stripped away resale by saying you can't use those for other non DVC properties. Trying to recover those points to sale at a higher current price. I get that on a business sense.
Next business sense if sales top out due to overpricing is raise the price per night on the rooms. Make current members need more points.

I can hear the responses now. DVC wouldn't do that.

Mr stockholder wouldnt have it any other way. If profits teeter then changes need to be made. Its all about profit.

 

[matthew517]

Ok no vote no real influence. No hope in better incentives. We account for little to disney.

That's all BS.

Disney knows our value that's why their expanding DVC properties. And not the cash properties at the same rate.

DVC members are return guests that spend alot.

Most cash only customers only visit once every few years.

What resorts were expanded? The cheap all stars etc. The moderate? The high priced?

The cheap ones were expanded. And most of those generate less money then the DVC. Free meal plan free park hoppers.

 

[Elise79]

Ok no vote no real influence. No hope in better incentives. We account for little to disney.

That's all BS.

Disney knows our value that's why their expanding DVC properties. And not the cash properties at the same rate.

DVC members are return guests that spend alot.

Most cash only customers only visit once every few years.

What resorts were expanded? The cheap all stars etc. The moderate? The high priced?

The cheap ones were expanded. And most of those generate less money then the DVC. Free meal plan free park hoppers.

Most DVC members I have ever talked to although return frequently actually spend less than they used too. I don't need the "stuff" and will happily go off site to eat or cook in the villa. We have APs that work out at way less per day for park entry than someone with MYW tickets.

Disney are cutting back on their cash discounts slowly - a couple of years ago the AP rates were as good as 45% and in the last year the best I have seen in 35/40%. Free dining doesn't cost them that much but attracts people in to fill rooms. DVC doesn't need to do that the rooms available for points will be pretty much full year round - otherwise the system wouldn't work.

 

[RobDoc]

My understanding is we have a vote if enough members give their vote to someone to want change I believe change will happen.

It is fine for current members to make their "wishes" known to DVC and very appropriate to let DVC know when things could be better. Examples of such past input and the response of the company have been mentioned in this and other threads for years now. From thread topics like this it should be apparent that we all have different tolerances and different expectations about what is a valuable perk. For some, the Valet Parking was very valuable - others using Disney transport didn't find the same value. Some found great value in the 10% discount on Theme Park admission and not-so-much with the AP discount. Some make great use of the ability to purchase the Dining Plan, others would rather pay out of pocket to purchase meals. Some members enjoy the ability to use points for Disney Cruise Line and at other WDW resorts, others find their best use of points to be only at DVC resorts. These preference differences are part of the challenge faced by DVC management. In addition, they still need to negotiate with other divisions for any Disney perk offered and those negotiations need to have some give and take for both sides to be satisfied with the end product.

DVC owners do have the right to replace DVC as the managing entity. The provision is spelled out in your documents. It would need to be voted on a resort-by-resort basis and any resort that voted such change would no longer be part of DVC.

What would be gained by that group of owners would be the right to manage their resort as they wish. They (through their elected board or new management company) would be earn the right and ability to negotiate for all services now provided by DVC - reservations (although that could easily cost less since those owners could only reserve at their Home Resort as they would not have access to any DVC resorts), transportation (I would imagine pretty easy negotiations with WDW Transportation Co.), housekeeping, laundry, maintenance, Front Desk, Swimming pools, landscaping, etc., etc., etc.

Gone would be any Disney Collection, Concierge Collection, Adventurer Collection, World Passport Collection, AP discount, Dining discount, Dining Plan TIW, etc. unless/until those could be individually negotiated by the new board/managers for their owners. The property would still return to DVD at the end of the land lease.

Be careful what you wish for!!

 

[Chuck S]

If a person were to ask me if DVC was a good value at the current price structure I would say it depends on if your going to WDW or DCL every year for the next 14 years. Then it would pay for it self.

But the incentives that they offer cash customers like free meal plan and park tickets is a better deal.

Since I have a family of 6 it works for us.


There was a comment about has my pay gone up in the past 15 years.

Yes. By 15% over those years. But not in the past 5 years. Most places have kept raises in the past 5 years on hold due to the economy. And trying not to lay people off. The country is in a depression. And unemployment is over 18 percent if you don't drop those unemployed more than a year or stopped looking for a job like the government does to make the situation look better than it is.

Only industries that were bailed out see raises that compare to the dvc price increases.

But that is chalk and cheese.

Bottom line is prices have gone up in the last year more then they went up in 20 years. It is what the market is allowing them to get. Ok fine. DVC has stripped away resale by saying you can't use those for other non DVC properties. Trying to recover those points to sale at a higher current price. I get that on a business sense.
Next business sense if sales top out due to overpricing is raise the price per night on the rooms. Make current members need more points.
I can hear the responses now. DVC wouldn't do that.

Mr stockholder wouldnt have it any other way. If profits teeter then changes need to be made. Its all about profit.

For being a member, you really don't seem to understand the system at all. DVC CAN NOT raise point requirements for every single night at an existing resort. It would be illegal under law. What they can do is rearrange the points, where some go up, and others go down...or they could reclassify rooms to different booking categories...for instance they could make the near HH category at OKW cost more ponts, but that increase would also have to be offset by a decrease in the rooms not near HH. There should be a maximum allocation showing the number of point needed per room type if all rooms were reallocated at your resort for the same number of points year-round in your paperwork.

The number of points available for any resort overall is set when the resort is built and sales start. Otherwise we would simply see all resorts cost the same number of points.

And they have, if you'll notice, been raising point requirements per night at the new resorts befiore their sales start...BLT takes more points than OKW...Aulani takes even more.

If that upsets you, then any timeshare is not a wise purchase decision for you, no matter how many are in your family. If you think free dining is a better deal than DVC, then I would sell and book into the AoA family suites during a free dining period. However, consider that the dining programs themselves have changed and are not the great value they were when they were first introduced. The standard plan USED to include appetizers AND gratuity. WHat makes you thing that in a few years those plans will be gutted to the point of making them almost valueless. It seems to be a pattern with Disney...they gutted thepopular Food N Fun program, and eventually discontinued it. They killed the popular Magic Kingdom Club program that gave many companies a discount benefit for their employees. They sold life memberships in the Magic Years club for seniors, then merged that program with Magic Kingdom Club, and then killed it, too.

So, really, you see the pattern? It is the way Disney does business, and you either accept it as part of your ownership, or you sell. You are not "buying perks" if that is what you wanted, rather than the right to stay at your home resort for the life of your membership (and nothing more) then you likely purchased for the wrong reason, or expected more than the program was offering in the legal paperwork. As long as they meet their legal obligations as detailed in our contracts, I have no complaints.

BTW, Disneyland passes were $11 per day in the early 1980s, after they first introduced the all day pass rather than A to E ticket books.

 

[nunzia]

Apparently, the resorts are currently selling well enough that "incentives" are not needed. Incentives are simply sales tools, nothing more. Like coupons in the grocery store, if the products are selling well, you don't see coupons for that product.

Disney, like all publically traded corporations, have a responsibility to their stockholders, to be maximize profits when possible. DVC Member are not stockholders, they are timeshare owners. Remember it wasn't lack of "magic and foresight" that got Eisner booted, as some would have you believe. Eisner was given a no confidence vote and was ultimately kicked to the curb because Disney stock prices, dividends and profits were down. That is all wall street cares about.

and the Roy led revolt

 

[matthew517]

What law says they can't raise prices per night? What is the statute that I can look up?

 

[matthew517]

I never said we should have free dining.

I am grateful for the DVC members who lobbied for the dinning plan to be available. And their not sitting back listening to the nay sayers.