DVC Disneyland Points up "Dramatically"

[Happy Birthday Cat]

Anyone else have a reaction to the latest information on MousePlanet regarding the increase in points for Disneyland for 2005. It seems to me to be a contiuing trend that makes point usage at places other than DVC resorts less desireable than ever. It will be interesting to see what the 2006 cruise points look like. The link to the information is above but the full text follows:

"Disney very quietly posted the 2005 point charts for Disney Vacation Club members to stay at the hotels of the Disneyland Resort in California on the DVC member Web site. It's no wonder that they did it quietly. The rates for some rooms have gone up quite a bit. It appears that what they've actually done is to remove the weekend differential by taking the cost of seven consecutive nights and averaging to get a uniform nightly rate, then modifying the rates depending on the hotel. They've also broken the summer out of peak season to be “regular season” at about half the price increase.

The Grand Californian sees increases of nine to 12 percent in both value and regular season and 18 to 22 percent in peak season. The Disneyland Hotel sees a range of a 2 percent decrease to a 10 percent increase in value season, increases from 6 to 15 percent in regular season, and increases of 14 to 27 percent in peak season. The Paradise Pier is the most schizophrenic, with prices ranging from no change to a five-percent decrease in value season, a four-percent decrease to a nine-percent increase in regular season, and increases from two to 19 percent in peak season.

As an example, while the top cost of a weekend night with a concierge-level theme park view room in peak season at the Grand Californian has dropped from 117 points to 94 points, the weeknight rate has climbed from 65 points to 94 points, for a net increase in the weekly rate from 559 points to 658 points. The lowest-cost room, a standard view room at the Paradise Pier hotel in value season, goes from 21 points weekdays/38 points weekends/181 points weekly to 25 points nightly/175 points weekly, a 3 percent drop.

In just about every case, though, especially if you're not staying at the Paradise Pier Hotel, it's going to cost you a lot more DVC points to go to Disneyland's 50th Anniversary celebration."

HBC

 

[pumpkinboy]

It get soooo crowded at Disneyland on the weekends, and a big chunk of that is locals who don't need hotel rooms. So I am geussing that the destination travellers were going during the week and saving points while enjoying less crowded conditions at DL, leaving the hotels emptier on the weekends. Even points for weekends and weekdays is a little easier to keep track of too, so perhaps we should not be suprised that they have normalized the weekend rates and raised the weeknight rates.

It's still too bad for us tho.

 

[CRSNDSNY]

...and they're still so point-costly to begin with. It's too bad that DL doesn't have its own DVC-dedicated resort.

 

[WDWLVR]

I guess what surprises me about threads like this is that's why we bought DVC in the first place. We bought it as a hedge against inflation. We wanted a great place to stay at Disney year after year that wouldn't keep going up in big leaps and bounds. Yes the dues will go up each year but the points are pretty much locked in.

I'm not surprised at all when Disneyland, Disney Cruise Line, or other Walt Disney World hotels go up in points. They are going up in price too. That's why I'm thankful I have my DVC points.

Does that mean I may not use them to splurge on a Disneyland visit, a cruise , or AKL? No way - I bought them to enjoy my vacation and if those splurges are part of it that's my call.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Doug7856]

Originally posted by CRSNDSNY
...and they're still so point-costly to begin with. It's too bad that DL doesn't have its own DVC-dedicated resort.

It would be great to have a DL based DVC! Instead of the "third park" they talked about a few years ago, they should develop a DVC resort!

We had thought about going and staying on points for the 50th, but with these prices, I just can justify it.

 

[CRSNDSNY]

Originally posted by Doug7856
It would be great to have a DL based DVC! Instead of the "third park" they talked about a few years ago, they should develop a DVC resort!

We had thought about going and staying on points for the 50th, but with these prices, I just can justify it.

I would guess that with a DL-based DVC, it may generate more crowds. I'd be more interested in visiting DL if the DVC exchange was more reasonable. If we do visit in the future, we'd probably end up paying cash. Who knows....lol

 

[Johnnie Fedora]

It's a big disappointment to see this trend continue with no expalnation from DVC. The dollar amount that Disney receives for your "traded in accommodations" also goes up every year. There should be no reason for the huge yearly increases in the points required for exchanges. There must be lots of "handling fees" with these trades. This amounts to an additional loss in program flexibility and variety. Too bad for us club members

Kudos to DVC's negotiating skills.

 

[3DisneyNUTS]

Do you think that the ability to book at a DL DVC resort would be near impossible.? With all the people who actually buy points there as "home" the 7 month window would be virtually impossible with all the WDW DVCers trying to get a stay.

 

[bwvBound]

Originally posted by Happy Birthday Cat
As an example, ... concierge-level theme park view room in peak season at the Grand Californian ... weekly rate from 559 points to 658 points. HBC

Ouch! Sure glad I can visit using my Worldmark credits at Dolphin's Cove!

 

[lenshanem]

This is funny. Just today hubby mentioned if I could get over my new fear of flying we should go to DL instead next year for the celebration.

Figures they'd jack the points up!

 

[Caskbill]

I wonder if the big increase is due to all the special activities going on next year for the 50 year anniversary of Disneyland. Almost like saying the whole year at DL is going to be in 'Premier' season, and thus the point increases. After all why would DL let DVC members have rooms cheap that they could more than likely rent out to cash customers for higher rates in 2005.

Wonder if the rates will go down for 2006 and that next year is a temporary increase. After all, it's all supply and demand.

 

[d-r]

I checked at expedia, and the highest rates I could find at grand californian were for a week in March, April, July, and October. The highest cash rate was the week in July, $335 a night, or $2345 a week (just a note, it was $245-$265 the other weeks). At $335 a night, based on the 658 points a week, that is a cash value of $3.56 a point. That seems less than dues to me. Not much of a hedge against inflation - remember that the points we trade in for other disney properties disney rents out for cash reservations, and those cash reservations they make to other guests should increase from inflation in the same amount as the resorts that we make the reservations in - there should never be an increase in the point costs because they should balance out (yes, there is a small risk to Disney in renting out the points, but they do not have to rent them at a specific time, and there was a risk to them that they wouldn't have rented out the other room, too. Moreover, that risk should be a constant, and the ratio of points to risk should not change from year to year). Whether you bought points to use in this way or not, it is a devaluing of our points and profiteering of dvc members.

 

[JimC]

Originally posted by d-r
I checked at expedia, and the highest rates I could find at grand californian were for a week in March, April, July, and October. The highest cash rate was the week in July, $335 a night, or $2345 a week (just a note, it was $245-$265 the other weeks).

Those sound like prices for standard view rooms, not concierge level rooms which I believe go for $395 to $495 per night.

 

[Granny]

Originally posted by Caskbill


Wonder if the rates will go down for 2006 and that next year is a temporary increase. After all, it's all supply and demand.

Bill....I haven't seen trade-out points go down year to year since I started looking at DVC in 2001. Just seems like they've been really, really jacking up the point requirements for the Disney Collection.

Personally, I'd be embarrassed to be a DVC salesperson and keep harping on the benefits of the flexibility of the membership for point trade-outs, especially within the Disney Collection.

But we bought for WDW trips, and hopefully some future HH and VB trips. So it's not killing us. But it is disappointing that the "negotiations" are so poor on behalf of DVC members.

 

[CarolMN]

Originally posted by d-r
I checked at expedia, and the highest rates I could find at grand californian were for a week in March, April, July, and October. The highest cash rate was the week in July, $335 a night, or $2345 a week (just a note, it was $245-$265 the other weeks). At $335 a night, based on the 658 points a week, that is a cash value of $3.56 a point. That seems less than dues to me. Not much of a hedge against inflation - remember that the points we trade in for other disney properties disney rents out for cash reservations, and those cash reservations they make to other guests should increase from inflation in the same amount as the resorts that we make the reservations in - there should never be an increase in the point costs because they should balance out (yes, there is a small risk to Disney in renting out the points, but they do not have to rent them at a specific time, and there was a risk to them that they wouldn't have rented out the other room, too. Moreover, that risk should be a constant, and the ratio of points to risk should not change from year to year). Whether you bought points to use in this way or not, it is a devaluing of our points and profiteering of dvc members.

IMHO, the "risk" does vary - as it does for anyone in the tourism industry. It's not a constant.

That said, I don't think it is a major piece of the increase. I think it is the "cost of the process used to turn the DVC rooms into cash". Labor costs (think wage increases, cost of health insurance and other employee-related expenses) are going up. Any small business owners out there will know exactly what I mean. Anyone know what the temp agencies charge for administrative help these days? (That's rhetorical - it ain't cheap! Talk about sticker shock)!

When you use points for a non-DVC option, you are essentially paying Disney to turn your points into cash. Anyone familar with the services that take your items and sell them for you on ebay? They take a HUGE percentage (IMHO) of the revenue your items generate.

Anyway, if you do that work yourself - i.e., rent out your DVC points, you get a much higher return on your points than if you pay Disney to do it.

I don't begrudge Disney from earning a profit on these transactions (if they do) and I do not consider it "profiteering" - because members have other choices. They can always do the work themselves or fund their choice via other means. Those that pay points for non-DVC options are paying the price of convenience. Time/Convenience can come at a high price!

JMHO. YMMV.

 

[Happy Birthday Cat]

Originally posted by Johnnie Fedora
The dollar amount that Disney receives for your "traded in accommodations" also goes up every year. There should be no reason for the huge yearly increases in the points required for exchanges.

My thoughts exactly and one that is often overlooked in discussions on this topic.

HBC

 

[Granny]

HBC...I agree with you and Johnny here!

If rack rates for resort rooms and DVC rooms rise at the same rate, the point trade out requirements should not increase.

Could part of the issue be that DVC is becoming very large in membership, and if Disney Collection tradeouts were appealing, they might take up too many rooms at resorts like GF, the Poly and AKL?

I don't know...it just seems that Disney is trying to get out of Disney Collection trading, but can't stop it all together since they used it so heavily during their sales presentations.

 

[CarolMN]

I agree that the price of DVC rooms is rising at the same rate as comparable resort rooms.

I just do not think the price of the rooms is driving the rate increases for the DVC options!

As I posted earlier - IMHO, it's labor costs. It costs money to turn a DVC room into cash. Members who choose to pay points for non-DVC options are paying Disney employees to do that instead of doing it themselves. There is a lot of overhead to pay for when you have employees.

That's why you can get a better return if you do the labor yourself - i.e., rent your points.


Bottom Line: It's expensive to have Disney be your agent.


Best wishes -

 

[d-r]

Originally posted by JimC
Those sound like prices for standard view rooms, not concierge level rooms which I believe go for $395 to $495 per night.

sorry, I see what you are saying. I just typed it in to expedia and only one rate came up, I didn't think about the different views.

Maybe I'm doing it wrong. I used the costs for a standard room with the point chart at dvcmember.com. I don't see a difference between weekend nights and weekday nights on the chart, just one number. The original post has differences for weekend nights, so I'm confused about that.

I used standard view rooms because that is what comes up on expedia.

A standard room at $265 a night on April 9 or March 9 would be 39 points, or $6.79 a point.

A standard room on March 19-April 1 would be $370 a night at $54 a point would be $6.85 a point.

In July, $335 a night, at 49 points, is $6.83 a point.

So it looks like the value of the points is arouind $6.79-$6.85.

At DVC, a two-bedroom in July is $555 at VWL, and $560 at BCV, and $490 at OKW. Points here you have to do by the week because weekend and weekday are different - BCV is 350/week ($11.20 a point) and OKW is 296 points ($11.59 a point).

Premiere season in early March/Late April, it is $700 a OKW, $920 at BCV. OKW is 405 points/week ($12.09 a point), BCV is 462 points/week ($13.93 a point).

On March 1, the cash rate is still $920 at BCV, 350 points/week ($18.40 a point) and $700 at OKW, 296 points/week ($16.55 a point).

I wasn't picking out any particular dates, just trying to pick a couple of times a year, but it occured to me while doing it that certain times of the year may be more exageratted than others. So I looked at Jan. 15, right in the middle of adventure season. BCV was $560 a night, OKW was $490 a night. OKW is 218 points/week ($15.73 a point), and BCV is 270 points / week ($14.52 a point).

So, from that sampling (and I admit that I just picked some dates out of a hat, there could be some dates that look different), the value of the points ranges from $11.20 a point to $13-$18 a point.

So, if a dvc member uses points at a non-dvc resort, Disney is treating them as worth $6.85, but then rents dvc resorts to non-dvc members for upwards of $11.20 a point. If we are talking about 200 or so points, that would be around $1,000 in overhead for Disney to make the arrangments for you. And it could be a good bit more at other times of year. Now, if they had to hire someone just to do this, maybe it would take a grand. But come on, the infrastructure is in place to handle reservations, it is what they do. Surely that doesn't take $1,000 to hire someone to enter the numbers in a computer and someone to answer the phone to make the reservation. That is about 10 minutes worth of work. Hell, I'd be willing to give somebody an hour to do it. But a week? I understand the point that the cost for this overhead can increase in an exponential pace, but it really seems to me that Disney makes a pretty good profit here.

Probably a simpler way to look at it. A week during choice season in a two-bedroom at bcv would be 282 points. A week in a standard view room at grand californian during value season would be 273 points. So basically, a standard view room at grand californian is about equal to a 2-bedroom at BCV. I just don't see that.

 

[JimC]

Am I correct that when DVC rents out points that have been traded to one of the non-DVC options that we, the members see that come back to us as breakage? If so, doesn't that reduce what we have to contribute in maintenance fees?