DVC Concerns...

[dmoore22]

The problems with the DVC and the DVC experience is the fact that Disney doesn't have to keep members satisfied to be successful.

Once a contract is purchased from Disney, they have made their money and they can be done with you. Once a contract is purchased it is sold for it's duration. The only way that you can get rid of it is to sell it to someone else, and Disney knows that they have a captive customer.

DVC contracts all support services such as, front desk, resort management, Mousekeeping, maintenance, Bell Services, from a third party, DVC Resorts, and they don't have a vested interest in our satisfaction.

99% of DVC buyers are not aware of any reasons not to buy. Disney does an excellent job of marketing and will continue to be successful selling to new members even if there are some problems that should be fixed.

Bill

That is not entirely true, actually it can be quite false. If DVC ever stops expanding, then this may become true in the future. If the DVC owners were truly unhappy, sales would slow and stagnate just on word of mouth.

I don't see my false statement, care to be more specific?

Most new owners only know what they are told by Disney. Of the 400,000 existing owners, less than 2% are members of the DIS. Where do you expect word of mouth to take place?

When we purchased into DVC via resale we signed a contract in accordance with the Disney Vacation Club Membership Agreement. This contract is binding on both parties. If DVC failed to uphold its end of the contract then it is subject to the rule of law. In addition DVC would be embroiled in a class action suit that would be costly financially as well as generating undesirable PR that would hurt the bottom line of several divisions including, but not limited to, parks, media, and stores along with DVC.

Most Americans (we can't speak for overseas purchasers) are a cynical bunch when it comes to sales persons. Especially us folks from the Show-Me State. We generally have an idea of what we are looking for before we go into the show room, or to the sales floor, whether we are looking to buy a new car, appliance, or new home. We know these folks are receiving a commission so it is in their interest to make a sale and paint the prettiest picture possible to lock in a sale. We read the boards and the analysis on the various "unofficial" sites such as the DIS, Allears.net, Mouseplanet.com, and DVCnews.com just to list a few. We are not so naive when we finally decide to take the tour to accept the information as gospel. The reason we took the tour? DVC was offering coupons for a free meal at various TS restaurants for each member of our party (Yum!).

Your comment about word of mouth is a false generalization. Word of mouth may be more widespread than you realize. I can't tell you how many times DVC has sent us promotional materials with referral cards to give to friends and family over the nearly ten years we have been members. Even without the prodding from DVC we share information with friends and family when they ask about DVC, or our latest trip to WDW. In recent years DVC has dangled some carrots for DVC members to spread the word. Everything from a $25 Disney Gift Card to an individual, and the referring DVC member, who participates in a "Telephone" tour to a "Sharing the Magic Reward" that ranges from $200 to $1000 to the DVC member if a referral ends up purchasing into DVC. Think in terms of those 400,000 members you mentioned in your post. Imagine if they, the 400,000, refer one family each. DVC is taking quite a gamble using existing DVC members to proselytize since we do have a strong tendency to tell the good, the bad, and the ugly about the DVC ownership experience.

 

[tjkraz]

While doing research over that past year, I have become increasingly concerned about DVC members thoughts about DVC service - specifically the cleanliness of rooms and the decreasing benefits memberships.

DVC villas are cleaned to the same standards as any other Disney hotel room. In fact most DVC resorts are home to both cash guest rooms and villas--Beach Club, BoardWalk, Wilderness Lodge, Animal Kingdom Lodge, Grand Californian, Contemporary. And even the dedicated DVCs like SSR and OKW are bookable by cash guests.

Standards are the same for both so chances are if you have been satisfied with your experiences as a cash guest, you will have similar experiences as a DVC member.

Bear in mind that there are 2500-4000 families staying in DVC villas on any given day and people don't rush to a message board to say "our room was in perfect condition!" (And even when they do, the messages quickly drop off the board with few replies.)

It's the rare complaints which get all of the attention--and really the same is true for cash stays as well. Unfortunately there are times when housekeeping staff does not properly perform the duties assigned to them. Fortunately these instances are very much in the minority.

As for perks, they haven't changed much in the last decade. If anything they have gotten a bit better over time.

The most noteworthy changes are the loss of valet parking and the former 10% discount on length-of-stay park passes. The biggest gains have been free Internet and Annual Pass discounts. There have been other minor perks added like discounts on MNSSHP and MVMCP, inclusion in attraction previews, Top of the World Lounge access for BLT guests, special shopping events at Downtown Disney, flexibility with the Dining Plans, more member cruises, etc.

Shopping and dining discounts are largely unchanged. Things like the loss of free valet have gotten a lot of attention but overall I think we're a little bit better off than we were years ago.

It would seem to me that Disney should view DVC members - people who have invested a significant amount of money in the company (and by the nature of that investment will invest A LOT MORE money into the company) - as VIP's...

From the day I purchased I always viewed DVC as a quid pro quo--something for something. I gave them a big sum of money up front and they gave me the ability to take discounted vacations for years to come.

The idea that Disney should continue to heap discounts upon me really doesn't resonate. I expect a clean, well maintained room and a certain level of service from the staff. But I don't expect free dining, free park tickets or any of the other promotions that Disney offers to cash guests. After all, cash guests aren't getting their accommodations for pennies on the dollar over the next 40 years.

If I thought I could do better following hotel discount incentives I would sell tomorrow or never would have purchased DVC in the first place.

I'm not saying they should get everything free - but guarantee them a clean room and a hassle free vacation.

I'm with you on the clean room, but the "hassle free vacation" part is a little bit vague. I've never felt treated like a second class citizen, but then I don't expect Disney to treat me better than the next guy just because I'm a DVC member, either.

THese people are Disney's biggest champions and salespeople.

Well, yes and no.

Is a DVC member who makes a once annual trip a bigger "champion" than someone who makes 2-3 trips per year to Pop Century?

Is a DVC member a bigger salesperson than any other cash guest who has a closet full of Disney t-shirts?

Is a DVC member more important than the locals--particularly in California--who fill the parks on a daily basis?

Is a DVC member more important than someone who pays $4000 for an annual concierge visit to the Poly or Grand Floridian?

You could segregate Disney theme park and hotel guests into many different buckets. But in the end they are all very important to the bottom line. You've got Annual Passholders, FL and SoCal residents, DVC members, D23 members, DIS stockholders, people who make annual trips to a Value resort, people who make annual trips to a Deluxe concierge accommodation--all groups of different social and economic backgrounds and most could make the case that Disney should go the extra mile to earn their business.

Disney has to consider carefully how its discounts and incentives impact those different groups. For instance, if they give better FastPass perks to DVC members, they risk alienating locals and day guests. It would be a nice perk for members, but would it really lead to additional DVC business? Meanwhile, day guests who are forced to endure longer ride waits will shy away from the parks in greater numbers.

It's a delicate balance and I don't envision Disney ever singling out DVC members for substantial added discounts.

 

[dianeschlicht]

OP, do as FIL did and save your money to buy a DVC. We had a great time on our first trip to WDW with children, knew we would be back every year, and have been. We wanted to buy DVC, but we saved our money until we could pay cash (well, I wrote a check). We bought a small resale contract and are happy with what we have.

As for other thoughts, I agree. My only complaint with DVC is the points reallocation, and that was simply because we waited and purchased just what we wanted, only to have it change 2 years in a row.

I agree with this advice, and it's what we did as well. It just doesn't make sense to pay interest on a luxury.

 

[ssawka]

I agree with this advice, and it's what we did as well. It just doesn't make sense to pay interest on a luxury.

Yes and no, if you do not plan on visiting WDW until you have the money then it might not make sense to "pay interest on a luxury". If however you are planning on going anyway, then those trips would be much like renting a house versus buying. The money you spend on non-DVC trips could be applied to your membership rather than being "water under the bridge." I for one feel very comfortable financing and taking trips now when DD will get the most enjoyment out of them. Life is short, what is the point in making money if you can't spend some of it on Luxury items? This is not to say that you should be irresponsible and buy whatever you want without giving thought to how your going to pay for it, but if you feel comfortable with the payments and feel pretty secure in your job, why not? Financing DVC is pretty low risk because there is a very active secondary market. That being said, if you do choose to finance, I would not take the full 10 years to pay it back so you can maximize your savings.

 

[crisi]

Whenever we have had problems it was always taken care of to our satisfaction.

Denise in MI

Because the problem isn't causing dissatisfaction to me, and I'd rather not have someone in my room to fix a problem while I'm there if I don't care about the broken drawer pull.

 

[AirGoofy]

Yes and no, if you do not plan on visiting WDW until you have the money then it might not make sense to "pay interest on a luxury". If however you are planning on going anyway, then those trips would be much like renting a house versus buying.

I thought about that, but decided against it for 2 reasons. (1) Did not want the debt or that feeling of dread of monthly payments and (2) did not want to pay the price that DVC was selling. We found a resale through TSS for a much lower price.

 

[TisBit]

I don't see my false statement, care to be more specific?

Most new owners only know what they are told by Disney. Of the 400,000 existing owners, less than 2% are members of the DIS. Where do you expect word of mouth to take place?

Bill

If Disney completely did not care about DVC owners because they already own....then people would backlash and DVC sales would stall, people would sell, and supply/demand relationships would catch up.

Word of mouth has nothing to do with the internet or advertising, it is friends/family, etc. A lot of DVC owners know other DVC owners and if they were unhappy they would tell everyone that they know.....and then they would tell their friends, etc etc.

 

[lah3hh]

We have been members for over 11 years and have NEVER regretted our decision. Our DVC points have allowed us to take several vacations every year that normally would not have been taken. It can be difficult to save the money year to year when other 'life' issues come up but once you have the points you make time for vacations!!!

I don't expect Disney or DVC to give me a 'hassel free' vacation. Over the numerous vacations we have taken there have been a couple of 'room' issues but nothing that was not cared for by Disney. Now those experiences are some of the funniest things we talk about even to this day.

I just wanted to say that sometimes the folks that speak up regarding negative situations can truly be the vocal minority. In many situations it is found the happy majority keep more to themselves...that is just human nature. We all tend to get a little more vocal when something ruffles our feathers and forget to report on all the wonderful things that happen. I am not trying to lessen any pain felt by other DVC'ers but gotta keep things in respect to human nature tendencies.

I hope you make the best decision for you and your family because I am glad to report...we did!!! My DH tells me quite often that I could be a walking billboard for DVC because of my love for it.

 

[disneynutz]

If Disney completely did not care about DVC owners because they already own....then people would backlash and DVC sales would stall, people would sell, and supply/demand relationships would catch up.

Word of mouth has nothing to do with the internet or advertising, it is friends/family, etc. A lot of DVC owners know other DVC owners and if they were unhappy they would tell everyone that they know.....and then they would tell their friends, etc etc.

I imagine that is true for some folks but not the majority.

Reading through the sampling of threads here on the DIS we have members that clean their own rooms because the Mousekeepers are over worked.

They wash all if the kitchen items because they don't trust that Mousekeeping did the job correctly.

They don't bother calling maintenance when things are broken because they don't like people in their room.

They call MS multiple times to verify that their reservation was made correctly.

These are just some examples of how members have learned not to make waves and accept mediocre service provided to DVC Members.

 

[DVC Mike]

We have NEVER regretted our decision.

Same here!

 

[TisBit]

I imagine that is true for some folks but not the majority.

Reading through the sampling of threads here on the DIS we have members that clean their own rooms because the Mousekeepers are over worked.

They wash all if the kitchen items because they don't trust that Mousekeeping did the job correctly.

They don't bother calling maintenance when things are broken because they don't like people in their room.

They call MS multiple times to verify that their reservation was made correctly.

These are just some examples of how members have learned not to make waves and accept mediocre service provided to DVC Members.

No, its called OCD...

For all of those people, as stated before there are countless others that don't fret, that never did day by day booking or walking reservations or whatever else someone feels they need to do. Just because a certain percentage have a perceived view of injustice or mediocre service, does not mean it exists....I can find anyone to have any point of view I want, regardless of if it is correct.

If DVC was not worth it in the majority of memberships eyes, you would see most people telling everyone they knew that was going down not to fall into the trap, instead DVC continues to grow and add resorts. Dont' get me wrong, there has have been serious issues brought up, but usually DVC has responded to those issues and made a good attempt to correct them. But for the most part, DVC members receive the same level of service as any other guest at Disney and many will tell you they feel they get superior. Check the resorts boards, any issue that has been brought up in DVC has been brought up there, multiplied signifcantly, just because there are more rooms and guests.

 

[M5ward]

We bought our DVC membership in 2006 and have gone to WDW twice a year since then. We initially bought 210 points and have since added more points twice (110 and 150.) We usually take one of our five children and their family with us and stay in a 2 bedroom villa. Our home resort is SSR, but we have also stayed at BWV, BCV, and OKW. We hope to eventually stay at all the DVC resorts.
Our membership assures us that we will vacation at least once every year: something that we hadn't done in ten years. In 2005 we visited the World for the first time in ten years (our daughter was getting married there.) We had so much fun we decided to return the following year with another daughter and her boyfriend. It was then that we decided that DVC was for us.
BUT..I don't know if we would have bought in if we had had to finance; we were able to pay in full for all of our point purchases, planning those purchases to coincide with work bonuses, etc. To be fair..economic times were different when we initially bought also.
We have never regretted our decision to become members. We have had clean, well-maintained rooms each visit..the only issue we ever had was one with lack of hot water in one of our studios. This was rectified with one phone call. If we come across any minor issues during the course of our stay (light bulb, handle pulls, etc.) we leave a note for Mousekeeping with our tip and notify maintenance prior to leaving. We get annual passes with the discount and take advantage of whatever other discounts there may be but the perks had no bearing on our decision to get involved with DVC. We don't expect them so the ones that are there are bonuses. We would get the APs even if there was no discount.
I wish we had done this sooner..that's my only regret.

 

[dmoore22]

I imagine that is true for some folks but not the majority.

Reading through the sampling of threads here on the DIS we have members that clean their own rooms because the Mousekeepers are over worked.

They wash all if the kitchen items because they don't trust that Mousekeeping did the job correctly.

They don't bother calling maintenance when things are broken because they don't like people in their room.

They call MS multiple times to verify that their reservation was made correctly.

These are just some examples of how members have learned not to make waves and accept mediocre service provided to DVC Members.

These are not learned behaviors. These are choices.

 

[JimMIA]

I disagree. We went to a presentation with friends, and almost wanted to sell our contract just by hearing the way the guide skirted the truth.

DVC guides may not be high pressure, but they can be kind of slick.

You're right, the guides are slick. But I think that is exactly what Sammie said -- don't expect them to give you any information (even if you ask for it very directly) which might kill a sale.

They're timeshare salespeople...expect nothing more.

 

[Dean]

Ok... I'll try to be brief (but I'm passionate about this...)

My father in law who worked VERY hard for his money (and was happy to have food on his table and warm house in the winter) said of Disney "It costs a lot of money - but yo get your moneys worth". This from a guy who spent 2 years buying a truck and paid cash when he bought it.

My wife and I have gone to Disney 5 times - 3 times before kids and twice after (our kids are 18, 16, and 14). We envision going again with our kids, alone as a couple, letting our kids go with their friends and ultimately going with our kids families.

Bottom line is we are sold on DVC and Disney.... BUT ...

While doing research over that past year, I have become increasingly concerned about DVC members thoughts about DVC service - specifically the cleanliness of rooms and the decreasing benefits memberships.

It would seem to me that Disney should view DVC members - people who have invested a significant amount of money in the company (and by the nature of that investment will invest A LOT MORE money into the company) - as VIP's... I'm not saying they should get everything free - but guarantee them a clean room and a hassle free vacation. THese people are Disney's biggest champions and salespeople.

As part of our research, we are renting DVC points in late July (I know - it's hot and crowded - but we are tied to school vacations right now). We will also take a DVC tour and I will bring up these concerns with the tour guide.

I know that Disney - like every big company - needs to be on top of cost. However, they need to be cautious that they do not take advantage of - or alienate - the customers who are their biggest champions.

Hopefully we'll be members soon... time will tell.
Rick

To me DVC is about providing a clean well kept room, the rest is gravy. However, I think the entitlement attitude is alive and well with many DVC members. If you expect to be treated as a VIP above other guests, I don't think DVC or Disney in general is for you unless you're a high roller otherwise. Some think they do less well for DVC members because they have our money already. Personally I think the answer is somewhere in the middle as it is with most Disney guests.

 

[Sammie]

You're right, the guides are slick. But I think that is exactly what Sammie said -- don't expect them to give you any information (even if you ask for it very directly) which might kill a sale.

They're timeshare salespeople...expect nothing more.

Thank you, that is exactly what I said.

 

[Mickey'sApprentice]

Thank you, that is exactly what I said.

I was being ironic.

The slick avoidance of facts cost the sale.

So therefore...the guide did do something that threw the sale, he avoided the question.

 

[crisi]

No, its called OCD...

In my case, its the opposite of OCD. I'm not having maintenance in my room to fix a broken drawer pull if it isn't bothering me - and it isn't likely to bother me.

 

[TisBit]

In my case, its the opposite of OCD. I'm not having maintenance in my room to fix a broken drawer pull if it isn't bothering me - and it isn't likely to bother me.

I completely agree, me not wanting maintenance in my room is not that I am afraid they will steal or do something dishonest, I just don't want them around when I am there....and they inevitably be there at the worst time....

 

[Jen_in_NH]

We stayed for 6 days at AKV this past December. There were 2 problems with the room that needed calls to be fixed. The first was no bathroom door for the bathroom in the second bedroom. It couldn't be fixed until the next day, but worked out OK. The second was no hot water in the bathroom. They did send someone up to look fairly quickly, but no one could fix it. That one was a bit of a problem, but the CMs were all really nice about trying to find the problem and keep us advised of when it would be fixed.

I don't think they treated us any differently than any other guest, and nor should they have. Everyone is paying, we just paid in advance