DVC Club Level and Home Resort Survey

[ziravan]

They can not sell points for services. The only reason the CL at AKV is funded by dues is because the lounge itself is a common element of the condo association.

There are no points that were assigned to it but the rooms that are given access.

So, to add to existing resorts, they must add new rooms to go with the points and the lounge would need to become part of DVC if they want to sell additional points to account for it.

FL timeshare requires dues to only fund operations of the resort and since the CL lounge was declared at AKV, its operation counts.

They can add restaurants or shops, but it’s not the services being added but commercial spaces that are declared to the resort.

Now, they can certainly just add the lounge and redistribute current points to make some rooms CL and others not. But that still requires them to declare the CL lounge as a limited commercial element.


Even at AKV, if they stop CL services, the points associated with those rooms are just redistributed. But, those points were decided when the original resort opened.

I guess where we are going astray is you are thinking about adding new rooms and I was thinking that they would “overlay” concierge onto existing rooms. Reallocate points to make those already existing units more valuable (something they’ve done at BLT and SSR in the past) and voila!

No new points/rooms and the POS allows for those kinds of conveniences to come and go.

What Disney gets isn’t new points/rooms to sell but a partner in funding those services. Somebody would pay the extra points to be in BCV DVC and still be able to use the Stone Harbor Club. We would.

 

[zavandor]

I guess where we are going astray is you are thinking about adding new rooms and I was thinking that they would “overlay” concierge onto existing rooms. Reallocate points to make those already existing units more valuable (something they’ve done at BLT and SSR in the past) and voila!

No new points/rooms and the POS allows for those kinds of conveniences to come and go.

What Disney gets isn’t new points/rooms to sell but a partner in funding those services. Somebody would pay the extra points to be in BCV DVC and still be able to use the Stone Harbor Club. We would.

I don't think they can do that.
Units are already declared for a certain number of points and people own a certain percentage of the units which corresponds to points.
They cannot increase the number of points declared for the unit (they cannot rewrite all the deeds) and they cannot reallocate points across existing units (I know they did it, but now we know about it and they haven't done it anymore). Even if they could, what would they gain from the change? Other rooms would just be cheaper with no advantage for Disney.

What they could do is say: the room costs the same, but if you want access Club Level, then you can give us 30 points per night (or whatever). A sort of like points are used for cruises. Disney would then sell the points as reservations.

 

[ziravan]

I don't think they can do that.
Units are already declared for a certain number of points and people own a certain percentage of the units which corresponds to points.
They cannot increase the number of points declared for the unit (they cannot rewrite all the deeds) and they cannot reallocate points across existing units (I know they did it, but now we know about it and they haven't done it anymore). Even if they could, what would they gain from the change? Other rooms would just be cheaper with no advantage for Disney.

What they could do is say: the room costs the same, but if you want access Club Level, then you can give us 30 points per night (or whatever). A sort of like points are used for cruises. Disney would then sell the points as reservations.

They can put some rooms in a new category, raise the point values of those rooms and reduce the value of rooms elsewhere.

In fact, they’ve done that at least twice last time being to create SSR preferred studio.

They also moved rooms around at BLT after opening.

 

[zavandor]

They can put some rooms in a new category, raise the point values of those rooms and reduce the value of rooms elsewhere.

In fact, they’ve done that at least twice last time being to create SSR preferred studio.

They also moved rooms around at BLT after opening.

They have done it for SSR THV, to create the SSR standard category, the BLT and AKV views reallocation.
Then they tried to do it everywhere with the 2020 point charts. We called them out and since then they haven't done it anymore.
I do believe we are in "we don't talk about reallocations" mode. We don't sue them for the ones they have already done and they don't attempt anything sneaky again.

 

[crisi]

I would think that points would have to be deeded to a unit in the resort????? Wouldn't they???? I guess they could sell points for services, but they wouldn't be able to use them to reserve a unit in the association.

I don't think they can, I think that they may try or this idea is coming from someone who isn't aware that they can't. As I said, sometimes marketing gets bright ideas before legal (or operations, or anyone else) can take a peek - and this is at a survey stage - really early in floating ideas around. Its quite possible that no one floating this idea has realized they can't sell points for services or believes they have a cleaver plan.

(Anyone remember the "hey, lets get people back to Disney during Covid by offering free dining - that always drives sales" fiasco....which got announced and lasted a bit before someone said "we don't have restaurant capacity for free dining because we've removed half our tables for health and safety reasons!" ANYONE in restaurant operations or health and safety would have stopped that - and yet.....)

 

[Sandisw]

The POS says that the room are booked "first come first serve" and if there is an entity that has a privilege, it violates that.
I am not convinced either way. It's one of those things where I think there isn't a black and white law. And if other timeshares have been doing it for a long time, creates a precedent.
Also, in all honesty, while I don't much like it, setting aside a % of rooms based on trust ownership is sort of fair, even if it might violate the letter of the POS.

Agree with Sandy that the most likely date for the big bang is 2042. At that point, they can enroll BWV BRV and BCV all at the same time into the trust. 3 of the most desirable resorts 100% bookable with trust points only. That would certainly have a lot of buyers interested. They might even convince existing owners to enroll their points (for a fee) in the trust for a shot at those resorts.
They could even keep VB and HHI instead of selling like many have said and resolve the problem of OKW not extended and upcoming SSR and Aulani expiration.

Start instead with one resort only and a few points here and there and discontent might grow over availability, which would cement a bad reputation for the new product.

The more I think about it, the more it makes sense.

To add, they will have OKW. Another thing is, it is possible that they can take out some of all the 2042 resorts earlier

I guess where we are going astray is you are thinking about adding new rooms and I was thinking that they would “overlay” concierge onto existing rooms. Reallocate points to make those already existing units more valuable (something they’ve done at BLT and SSR in the past) and voila!

No new points/rooms and the POS allows for those kinds of conveniences to come and go.

What Disney gets isn’t new points/rooms to sell but a partner in funding those services. Somebody would pay the extra points to be in BCV DVC and still be able to use the Stone Harbor Club. We would.

I thought people were suggesting they could sell more points by adding CL rooms. That they can not do.

But, it still requires the hotel division to give up the CL lounge to DVC so it can be added as a limited common element to the association. That is the only way dues can fund it…even if it is shared funding with hotel for hotel guests, like AKV.

And, yes, they would now have to reallocate the points from the current rooms to the CL rooms…so, if that is what you were talking about, it can happen.

I thought someone was implying they can add the services and then could sell additional points for the resort.

 

[ehh]

I have no speculation on how a trust could/would work, but I can say that a new FL business was registered recently with the same directors/officers as DVC, with the name “Palmetto Trust Association”:

https://search.sunbiz.org/Inquiry/CorporationSearch/SearchResultDetail?inquirytype=OfficerRegisteredAgentName&directionType=ForwardList&searchNameOrder=DIERCKSENWILLIAM N2300000970912&aggregateId=domnp-n23000009709-13c9dce7-fba8-45e6-852d-e62c66f75aeb&searchTerm=diercksen&listNameOrder=DIERCKSENWILLIAM N140000058261

 

[Sandisw]

I have no speculation on how a trust could/would work, but I can say that a new FL business was registered recently with the same directors/officers as DVC, with the name “Palmetto Trust Association”:

https://search.sunbiz.org/Inquiry/CorporationSearch/SearchResultDetail?inquirytype=OfficerRegisteredAgentName&directionType=ForwardList&searchNameOrder=DIERCKSENWILLIAM N2300000970912&aggregateId=domnp-n23000009709-13c9dce7-fba8-45e6-852d-e62c66f75aeb&searchTerm=diercksen&listNameOrder=DIERCKSENWILLIAM N140000058261

Interesting…given the quote from Chang yesterday, and the report now that she told someone after the meeting nothing has been filed and the decision can still change, maybe the new tower, CFW and the rest of RIV and even AUL not declared and sold will all start a new type do DVC?

 

[hhisc16]

I have no speculation on how a trust could/would work, but I can say that a new FL business was registered recently with the same directors/officers as DVC, with the name “Palmetto Trust Association”:

https://search.sunbiz.org/Inquiry/CorporationSearch/SearchResultDetail?inquirytype=OfficerRegisteredAgentName&directionType=ForwardList&searchNameOrder=DIERCKSENWILLIAM N2300000970912&aggregateId=domnp-n23000009709-13c9dce7-fba8-45e6-852d-e62c66f75aeb&searchTerm=diercksen&listNameOrder=DIERCKSENWILLIAM N140000058261

The trust documents already talks about different types of memberships for the DVC trust?

 

[Ruttangel]

Holy cow! Maybe DVC will ROFR/Directly offer to buy back everything and just put it in a pot. End of resale brokers as we know it.

Also The option to have multiple home priorities would already be a massive upgrade on RIV/VDH resale.

 

[zavandor]

The trust documents already talks about different types of memberships for the DVC trust?

Holy cow indeed. It's happening!?!?

There will be two classes of membership: (i) Owners of Vacation Ownership Interests other than DVD shall be Class A owners with the rights and privileges as set forth in these Articles and the Bylaws; and (ii) DVD with respect to the Vacation Ownership Interests that it owns shall be the class B Owner with the rights and privileges as set forth in these Articles and the Bylaws.

So it's not a difference between owners, but a difference between DVD and everyone else.

 

[hhisc16]

Holy cow indeed. It's happening!?!?

There will be two classes of membership: (i) Owners of Vacation Ownership Interests other than DVD shall be Class A owners with the rights and privileges as set forth in these Articles and the Bylaws; and (ii) DVD with respect to the Vacation Ownership Interests that it owns shall be the class B Owner with the rights and privileges as set forth in these Articles and the Bylaws.

So it's not a difference between owners, but a difference between DVD and everyone else.

And Chang is the Director of the trust!

 

[JGINPL]

Holy cow indeed. It's happening!?!?

There will be two classes of membership: (i) Owners of Vacation Ownership Interests other than DVD shall be Class A owners with the rights and privileges as set forth in these Articles and the Bylaws; and (ii) DVD with respect to the Vacation Ownership Interests that it owns shall be the class B Owner with the rights and privileges as set forth in these Articles and the Bylaws.

So it's not a difference between owners, but a difference between DVD and everyone else.

Wonder where we can read more about the Class A Owners Rights and Privileges vs Class B

 

[Sandisw]

The trust documents already talks about different types of memberships for the DVC trust?

Where are the documents that detail this! Never mind…I found them…well, I guess my thought this idea was far into the future was way off base.

Gotta wonder though…maybe the PVB tower rooms will be the first property put under the trust.

 

[Sandisw]

Holy cow indeed. It's happening!?!?

There will be two classes of membership: (i) Owners of Vacation Ownership Interests other than DVD shall be Class A owners with the rights and privileges as set forth in these Articles and the Bylaws; and (ii) DVD with respect to the Vacation Ownership Interests that it owns shall be the class B Owner with the rights and privileges as set forth in these Articles and the Bylaws.

So it's not a difference between owners, but a difference between DVD and everyone else.

What seems to be missing is the differences in the rights and privileges of Class A vs Class B owners. Of course, it ain’t detailed enough yet to know what properties will be part of it…..but, wow…just wow..

 

[hhisc16]

Where are the documents that detail this! Never mind…I found them…well, I guess my thought this idea was far into the future was way off base.

Gotta wonder though…maybe PVB and its tower is going to be the first property put under the trust.

I wonder if the Cabins at Fort Wilderness will be first in the trust?
Just thinking since this is the first moderate dvc?

 

[Sandisw]

I wonder if the Cabins at Fort Wilderness will be first in the trust?
Just thinking since this is the first moderate dvc?

That would be an interesting move!!

 

[Dobermanns]

What seems to be missing is the differences in the rights and privileges of Class A vs Class B owners. Of course, it ain’t detailed enough yet to know what properties will be part of it…..but, wow…just wow..

Can DVD amend the POS for each of the current DVC resorts to include the two classes?

 

[Sandisw]

Can DVD amend the POS for each of the current DVC resorts to include the two classes?

I do not believe they can. That to me would be a material change and thus need the vote of owners.

But, it’s the trust that has two class of owners which means DVD has different rules than those who buy a vacation ownership plan via the trust.

It’s why I now have to wonder if they will be doing something with these new properties, including maybe undeclared VDH and RIV!!

No sense to mess with current resorts if you can start with the new ones.

Even with the Poly tower…they can certainly add some of the rooms to PVb…like has been reported…but not make the entire resort PVB. Nothing requires them to declare 100% of the building psrt of PVB.

For example, sell some of the units as deeded units that are declared to PVB and the other units get sold under the trust!

 

[Genie+]

There’s a list of historic DVC surprises. When it comes to the trust and restrictions I can’t help but think they’re positioning to recapture the resale and rental markets. If DVC has a limit or saturation point, it makes sense DVD is looking for ways to survive the future. Why not take back control of profits being made on your own product?