DVC and DDP - unique question (I think)

[irazabul]

With all the threads on DVC and the DDP and the discussions surrounding why point ressies do not get free dining, I was wondering what DVC owners think about the following suggestion:

Why doesnt DVC offer the DDP for POINTS? I am thinking something like 1 point per night per child and 3 points per night per adult. They can simplify it by saying everyone staying on the ressie has to do it if the option is chosen and for all nights (or some hybrid of these rules).

I personally would like it if something like this is offered and I would think it would work out well for DVC - DVC can actuarily determine how many people would take advantage of this, thus increasing the inventory of points DVC can sell, knowing some percentage will go to DDP. Just thumbnailing it, DVC actually can make money off of this (for example, you pay maintenance fee per point, yet some points would be used for purposes not related to physical maintenance)

The more I think of it, it is shear genius and a win-win for both owners and DVC! How can we get something like this going?

 

[dallastxcpa]

The number of points per resort is set so if DVC were to do this that would mean they would have to rent the rooms in order to recoup the cost.

I don't mind paying if I choose to use the dining plan, but honestly with our AP discount and the TIW card you are far better off not using the plan.

 

[irazabul]

The number of points per resort is set so if DVC were to do this that would mean they would have to rent the rooms in order to recoup the cost.

I don't mind paying if I choose to use the dining plan, but honestly with our AP discount and the TIW card you are far better off not using the plan.

For those of us that go once a year or even if twice, I dont think AP and TIW would be better off, but I havent really done detailed math on that.

I do think that the added inventory of rooms/points DVC will have if people paid for DDP with points will allow DVC to either sell more points or have more room to rent, offsetting (maybe even more) any additional cost.

 

[Deb & Bill]

Points have no cash value. They cannot be used for anything but lodging.

 

[Chuck S]

I do think that the added inventory of rooms/points DVC will have if people paid for DDP with points will allow DVC to either sell more points or have more room to rent, offsetting (maybe even more) any additional cost.

DVC could not sell "more points" in existing resorts if they were to allow payment for the DDP with points, they would still have to have the set limit on the chart in case no one chose to pay for the DDP with points. Other wise, they would illegally be overselling the resort.

Also, it would take a great deal more points than 1 per child & 3 per adult per night. There are costs associated with renting out points that would also have to be covered. There is the DVC staff that releases room to CRO, there is the CRO reservation staff, the additional cost of daily housekeeping on cash reservations, etc. Those costs would also have to be included in the "trade value" of those points. So the points needed would likely be at least double your proposed amount.

Third, all the paperwork indicates that points can be used for accommodations only.

It just wouldn't be a financially viable alternative.

 

[TDC Nala]

I am not entirely sure what is wrong with paying for the dining plan with a points reservation.

 

[christa112]

I am totally game for giving up some of my points for the DDP.

The AP and TIW discounts will not be worth it for us. We are only planning on visiting every other year.

 

[dianeschlicht]

I am not entirely sure what is wrong with paying for the dining plan with a points reservation.

Read your contract....Does it say you purchased points for an all inclusive vacation, or does it say you purchased a X% timeshare of a X building? It doesn't say anything about "all inclusive", so points do not refer to food...only lodging, and that's because you have purchased "time" in the form of points for your "vacation home"....NOT your meals. Points at each resort are limited to the amount of "time" all of the owners can "share".... That is based on the number of units and the number of days in a year. What's so difficult to understand about that?

 

[CarolMN]

Let me try -

In order for members to use points to pay for the Dining Plan or Tickets, DVC would have to turn the equivalent number of room nights over to CRO to be rented for cash. There is a cost to do that.

By the time DVC adds on the "overhead" to rent out the DVC rooms, the Dining Plans and tickets would cost more points than most would be willing to pay.

Those who would like to turn points into cash to buy Dining Plans or tickets (or another vacation) can certainly rent out their points. I think most who do that would agree it is not always an easy or quick way to generate cash.

 

[irazabul]

Read your contract....Does it say you purchased points for an all inclusive vacation, or does it say you purchased a X% timeshare of a X building? It doesn't say anything about "all inclusive", so points do not refer to food...only lodging, and that's because you have purchased "time" in the form of points for your "vacation home"....NOT your meals. Points at each resort are limited to the amount of "time" all of the owners can "share".... That is based on the number of units and the number of days in a year. What's so difficult to understand about that?

Seriously, how many owners have read through the contract?...and I'm a lawyer (let the flames begin ). I assume that the contract allows for changes to a lot of things - whether it be contractual or from a policy perspective - and whether owners like it or not. DVC has the power to put in place new programs if they feel it best for them primarily, and it is good or not materially bad for owners (they could make changes in acordance with the contract, I am sure, that are really bad for owners, but that is bad for business for them so they probably would not do so).

I do not know enough about the intricate operations (both contractually and practically and from a cost perspective), to really know the impact of a point for DDP program.

 

[jco_direwolf]

Why doesnt DVC offer the DDP for POINTS? I am thinking something like 1 point per night per child and 3 points per night per adult. They can simplify it by saying everyone staying on the ressie has to do it if the option is chosen and for all nights (or some hybrid of these rules).

While everyone is correct this isn't going to work. But i think the simple reason is the overhead. Each point as people are saying equates to some fraction of a room. To make back the money on it WE (the owners) have to rent that room. For every room-night that is goes unrented (besides the overhead rooms, some % of the points are held by the association to cover for issues like maintenance.)

But 1 and 3 would be a HUGE loss for US, the owners. DDP costs $11 and $41 per day. At board rates (which are what $~10/pt?) for the points it's not break even, although the boards charge less per point than DVC does when they book a room out on a Cash basis, but not really THAT much less. Add into that they will charge overhead. My guess to make this even close it would be 3 and 12 (the two have to be about a factor of 4 different), plus something upfront from the person booking it ~$30-40.

So you would be willing to spend your points, as much as the room that night per person to get DDP? Because based on the mark-up DVC feels they have to charge to make it worth while, I think seriously those are the points you are taking per person.

And think the DDP isn't a good deal when it costs cash. I can tell you if it was 1 and 3 points, a lot of people would use it, since it would be like buying the DDP at 25% off, which is better that TiW.

johno

 

[jco_direwolf]

Those who would like to turn points into cash to buy Dining Plans or tickets (or another vacation) can certainly rent out their points. I think most who do that would agree it is not always an easy or quick way to generate cash.

You have to remember when you rent out points, your time is worth something, plus I use the value of about $5 as the value of a point this year.

MF are around $3, and the points ($100/50 =~ $2/pt) yes some people paid less per point for the buy, but most are paying more per point in MF. So if you rent out your points for $10/pt you are really only making $5, before your costs (your "raw" materials are costing you $5.)

Anyone rent out enough points they have a good feel for how long a transaction takes? 5 hours? 10 hours? Longer? Remember you have to include the time you spend marketing your wares.

johno

 

[irazabul]

While everyone is correct this isn't going to work. But i think the simple reason is the overhead. Each point as people are saying equates to some fraction of a room. To make back the money on it WE (the owners) have to rent that room. For every room-night that is goes unrented (besides the overhead rooms, some % of the points are held by the association to cover for issues like maintenance.)

But 1 and 3 would be a HUGE loss for US, the owners. DDP costs $11 and $41 per day. At board rates (which are what $~10/pt?) for the points it's not break even, although the boards charge less per point than DVC does when they book a room out on a Cash basis, but not really THAT much less. Add into that they will charge overhead. My guess to make this even close it would be 3 and 12 (the two have to be about a factor of 4 different), plus something upfront from the person booking it ~$30-40.

So you would be willing to spend your points, as much as the room that night per person to get DDP? Because based on the mark-up DVC feels they have to charge to make it worth while, I think seriously those are the points you are taking per person.

And think the DDP isn't a good deal when it costs cash. I can tell you if it was 1 and 3 points, a lot of people would use it, since it would be like buying the DDP at 25% off, which is better that TiW.

johno

I guess I was using only very simple math (around $10-11 per point value) to come up with the 1 and 3 numbers, without figuring in anything else. Oh well - back to paying cash for the DDP.

 

[jco_direwolf]

Seriously, how many owners have read through the contract?...and I'm a lawyer (let the flames begin ).

I have. I'm an engineer...

I do not know enough about the intricate operations (both contractually and practically and from a cost perspective), to really know the impact of a point for DDP program.

Well you can estimate the costs because DVC allows us to exchange points right now for Cruises, and Adventures by Disney (both of which have published point value and a published dollar value, sort of a rosetta stone.) Last year when I did the math, it appeared they value a point right about $8 (At least that is the number that is stuck in my head.)

johno

 

[Dean]

Seriously, how many owners have read through the contract?...and I'm a lawyer (let the flames begin ). I assume that the contract allows for changes to a lot of things - whether it be contractual or from a policy perspective - and whether owners like it or not. DVC has the power to put in place new programs if they feel it best for them primarily, and it is good or not materially bad for owners (they could make changes in acordance with the contract, I am sure, that are really bad for owners, but that is bad for business for them so they probably would not do so).

I do not know enough about the intricate operations (both contractually and practically and from a cost perspective), to really know the impact of a point for DDP program.

You know the sayings about getting what you pay for.

As for using points to pay for cash options, the issue has been discussed here many times in terms of the DDP and tickets especially. As mentioned earlier, if they did, there's a "cost" involved. I guess the question is whether a return of about $5 to $6.75 a point would be worth it to the members when you're paying around $5 a point in fees. Also consider that these points would have to generate cash and the only was DVC/DVD has of doing that is renting out rooms. This is something they have not been as successful at as they would like plus CRO takes 50% of the proceeds off the top. The other kicker is it would dilute the other programs that rely on the same methodology and thus likely increase the points cost of all other cash equivalent exchange options like DCL and CC. I think we'd all love to see a viable program where you had the options of using points like cash, the problem is the emphasis is on the word viable.

 

[jco_direwolf]

I guess I was using only very simple math (around $10-11 per point value) to come up with the 1 and 3 numbers, without figuring in anything else. Oh well - back to paying cash for the DDP.

Then shouldn't the point values been 1 and 4 using the very simplest math I can think of.

11/10 =~ 1 and 41/10 =~ 4? For it to be 1 and 3 your points would be worth $11 and $13 each. You really end up with an issue because points are atomic. If you make a so the Child's plan is 1pt = $11 then you lose $8 per adult ($41-$11*3), if you make it so it's $13 then the child's plan is over charged by $2 so now it's better to pay for adult plan with points and child's plan with cash.

To be honest I think you came up with numbers that would be appealing and acceptable to most people. And sure I'd consider paying with point for the DDP if I could get it at a better discount than TiW.

johno

 

[Dean]

Then shouldn't the point values been 1 and 4 using the very simplest math I can think of.

11/10 =~ 1 and 41/10 =~ 4? For it to be 1 and 3 your points would be worth $11 and $13 each. You really end up with an issue because points are atomic. If you make a so the Child's plan is 1pt = $11 then you lose $8 per adult ($41-$11*3), if you make it so it's $13 then the child's plan is over charged by $2 so now it's better to pay for adult plan with points and child's plan with cash.

To be honest I think you came up with numbers that would be appealing and acceptable to most people. And sure I'd consider paying with point for the DDP if I could get it at a better discount than TiW.

johno

I'm sure you're right. I think many members would be interested if getting $10 a point in return, even $8 would get many people's attention. However, those numbers are not realistic and I think $7 a point is the absolute max one should even hope for in this line of thinking.

 

[jco_direwolf]

I'm sure you're right. I think many members would be interested if getting $10 a point in return, even $8 would get many people's attention. However, those numbers are not realistic and I think $7 a point is the absolute max one should even hope for in this line of thinking.

Well $10 per point without doing anything, except making a phone call. My guess is DVC couldn't pull it off for more than ~$5 per point.

Although as I said last summer I have it in my head they where offering the european Adventures by Disney for something like $8 per point (The more I think about it, the more I think that HAS to be my faulty memory, because that sounds pretty good...)

I do remember that some AbD vacations you where able to get cheaper than others. It was clear to me that AbD locked in rates with DVC for things before they knew what they where going to charge or cost...

As I said in another post, a DVC point this year is worth between $5 and $6, for most people.

johno

 

[Dean]

Well $10 per point without doing anything, except making a phone call. My guess is DVC couldn't pull it off for more than ~$5 per point.

Although as I said last summer I have it in my head they where offering the european Adventures by Disney for something like $8 per point (The more I think about it, the more I think that HAS to be my faulty memory, because that sounds pretty good...)

I do remember that some AbD vacations you where able to get cheaper than others. It was clear to me that AbD locked in rates with DVC for things before they knew what they where going to charge or cost...

As I said in another post, a DVC point this year is worth between $5 and $6, for most people.

johno

I agree that $5-6 a point is realistic even without the economic downturn taken into account.