DVC 2007 Member Cruise - Preferred booking to first time cruisers

[MarkRG]

The bottom line is that they have easily sold out the previous member cruises and had waiting lists. There is NOTHING unfair about giving other members a chance to go before allowing repeat cruisers. NOTHING. We have not gone, nor do I ever expect that we will be able to go on a member cruise because of the way they schedule them. Yea, I would like very much to go, but I am not OWED an opportunity to go. I think it is wonderful that they are making an effort to ASSURE that other people have a chance to go. If it sells out with all new cruisers (which I doubt, and doesn't seem to be the intent), GREAT!!! That means that several thousand people will be newly excited about the member cruises. Perhaps what they should do is limit it to people who have never sailed on DCL, rather than never been on a Member Cruise. That would be even more defensible, IMHO. This thread is exactly the type of thread where people get the impression that DVC members are a bunch of spoiled snobs. Nobody owes you the chance to get on the member's cruise. Sure it would be nice, but it is not a right!

And, you can apply your point exactly the same to the members who havn't been on one. They also are not owed anything over the ones who have gone either. Any kind of exclusion or setting one segment of the members over another is just plain wrong.

However, if what was posted is accurate, (I'm not doubting the poster, but call and you'll get 5 different answers) there is still a good shot for repeaters to go.

 

[kathleena]

While I would prefer to see an all member lottery instead of the current first call, first book, I believe that DVC is a business and they can run it the way they want to. If they think on this cruise they want to give a segment of first time DVC cruisers the first shot at booking, then that is their choice. I can see all kinds of reasons why they would want to do this.

One of the reasons I see is to get more and more members interested in cruising. Why not give first shot to people who have never done the DVC cruise. This would eventually lead to maybe two cruises a year????

I just don't really have a problem with this at all. I think it's a nice perk to give to the first time DVC cruisers - to have first shot at the cabins.

 

[cobbler]

I feel bad for those of you that feel it is a slap in the face but I also do see merit in the idea.

I for one signed up to be - hopefully - randomly selected - to be called on the 2nd for the cruise.

I will be a first time cruiser and it isn't because I didn't want to get up early or have the patience to hang it out in the queue. I am a new member (just barely a year into my membership) and last year the booking time for 06 Member Cruise came less than a month after we closed and such. There was just no way I could do it with points/cash or otherwise.

So while it may suck for some, I am sure it has some merit, esp for newbie members like myself.

 

[cobbler]

PS - OT but how come with less than a month left to booking (or just over, depending on who you are) there isn't a cash basis chart?? You would think THAT would be up as well as the points..

 

[Doctor P]

And, you can apply your point exactly the same to the members who havn't been on one. They also are not owed anything over the ones who have gone either. Any kind of exclusion or setting one segment of the members over another is just plain wrong.

I'm with you till the last statement, which is obviously a bunch of hogwash. Any business can choose to favor a segment of its customers over another segment. The member cruise is not something that is guaranteed or mentioned in the legal documents--it's just something they have chosen to do. They can set the rules any way that they want and no member has the right to complain. Yes, you can be disappointed and upset, but they haven't done anything any more wrong than giving a friends and family discount, not giving discounts on MYW tickets but discounting AP's, or scheduling member events when schools are in session. They have chosen to market this event (first) to a particular segment of the membership. They can do that! And, I think it is a good idea on top of that, even though I won't benefit in any way.

 

[MarkRG]

I'm with you till the last statement, which is obviously a bunch of hogwash. Any business can choose to favor a segment of its customers over another segment. The member cruise is not something that is guaranteed or mentioned in the legal documents--it's just something they have chosen to do. They can set the rules any way that they want and no member has the right to complain. Yes, you can be disappointed and upset, but they haven't done anything any more wrong than giving a friends and family discount, not giving discounts on MYW tickets but discounting AP's, or scheduling member events when schools are in session. They have chosen to market this event (first) to a particular segment of the membership. They can do that! And, I think it is a good idea on top of that, even though I won't benefit in any way.

Hogwash, hm? Well, then you're really not going to like what I have to say next.

My outlook on life is everyone's equal, I don't really believe in first or your number is higher than mine being impressive. I don't favor anyone over anyone else. It's how I run the different Dis meets I've hosted. Everyone gets the same opportunity, the same button with their Dis name on it so they can all meet one another. I set a level playing field for all. And you mention buisness. I happen to work for a rather successful local one that holds that same outlook, one of the main reasons I enjoy working there. From the guy who sweeps the floors to the highest job position in the office, everyone's treated the same positive way and anything that's done in the company is open to all. And that also extends to the customer. All are treated equal there, no matter how much or how little buisness they've done with us, all are treated and given the same opportunites and the same perks, and it has served us very well.

DVC in the past has held to that as well, and all the Member events have been equally open to all.

Not anymore.

Now they are beginning to feel the pinch, as for a long time they were the only good option.

Not anymore.

The other major timeshare companies have watched, and learned, and changed to match DVC. They don't treat their group as just numbers anymore, they lay off the hard sell, they have their point systems that are as easy to use and follow as DVC's. And I would suspect, cheaper per point.

The reason I point this out is simple. On the 03 Member Cruise they were proud of their 80,000 membership. On the 05 they were proud of being over 100,000. This year they are only at 106,000. Where if growth was the same they should be over at least 110,000 by now. The other timeshare groups are starting to really cut into their new sales. I havn't done much research, but I would suspect a big motivating factor is the almighty dollar.

There's a new timeshare going up right now on I-4 right next to the Goodings mall with a very large sign with the three letters 'BVC' prominently displayed on it. I have no idea what the abbreviation means, but the inference is obvious, they are going on the attack. And DVC is starting to get into a more defensive position.

What that means to the Member Cruise is DVC, in this case, have a basically captive audience on the Wonder. That was made very obvious the 06 sailing by delaying the docking the first day at Castaway Cay to guarantee that everyone came to their presentation, wrapped into a 'game show', where for the first time I have seen them do a real hard sell. And that is coming right from the one person who benefitted the most from that hard sell tactic. I won the big drawing, an entire week in up to a 2br at any Interval International exchange, with very few restricitons. So I should be the one who was most placated. Sorry, I'm not. I don't like the change in buisness model that I'm seeing. I don't like the way they are treating this.

To me, what they are doing is to make a changeover in who goes so they get some fresh people to sell addons to. Sure, they are trying to put a nice spin on it by making it sound like the people who havn't gone have been somehow shortchanged out of going and they're being benevolent in giving them an opportunity. The fact is, everyone had the exact same opportunity to call. Sure the 800 number has messed up at first. I know it hung up on Carol A who has posted right here in this thread. It could have hung up on me or any one else who had been calling that morning. It didn't last all day, and not one of these cruises has sold out in much less than a day and even then people who wailisted did get in. And every last member sailing has had new cruisers on it from the Dis, there have been many new people to the cruise with both the 05 and 06 ones, so to infer new cruisers havn't gotten on is wrong. The only way that could have been done more fair for everyone would have been a full on drawing for everyone interested, eliminating the flaky phone system. I would have been happy with that. This half and half thing does have me perturbed. They are beginning to treat us just as numbers and I personally don't care for that.

Will I still make an attempt to go on the next one? Definitely. The entertainment they have provided on all three cruises was a serious cut above anything I have seen on the other sailings I have been on, mostly on the Magic, a few on the Wonder. And that has improved with each sailing. But I will go with a bit of skepticism, they are going to have to earn my trust now.

 

[Olaf]

I think the lottery system is an awesome idea, and with the phone troubles, it should be done that way, just don't exclude previous cruisers, that's where I think DVC is wrong in this case.

I agree. To exclude previous cruisers is just plain wrong. The phone system was a mess last year, and hardly fair. I started calling right on the dot. Was on hold for over an hour and half. Got on the boards and discovered that if I called the (407) number I might have better luck. Tada. Got through in 20 minutes on my mobile. Was still on hold with the land line to the 800 number.

 

[Doctor P]

Hogwash, hm? Well, then you're really not going to like what I have to say next.

I actually think you made a lot of great and well-justified points. I just don't know of any successful business that doesn't segment their market in some way. Your last post suggests that you are opposed to any kind frequent buyer program, any form of discount program that doesn't apply to each and every single customer, any advertising campaign that focuses on a particular market, any form of limited time sale, and any type of volume pricing. I don't think that opposing all of those is very good business, and each and every one is an example of giving a preference to one segment of your market.

 

[Scratch42]

For All those that do get to sail on the SSMC07.............

Hopefully, they will change their format and not have a Hard Sell Sailing!

I went to Celebrate 15 years of DVC and all I got was "You Need to Buy More Points!"

I would have, if they had offered VAKL!

Good Luck and hope that you are not as dissappoited as I was in DVC!

Once again, A Big Thank You to Those that I sailed with! Without you, this Celebration would have been a total BUST!

j

 

[MarkRG]

I actually think you made a lot of great and well-justified points. I just don't know of any successful business that doesn't segment their market in some way. Your last post suggests that you are opposed to any kind frequent buyer program, any form of discount program that doesn't apply to each and every single customer, any advertising campaign that focuses on a particular market, any form of limited time sale, and any type of volume pricing. I don't think that opposing all of those is very good business, and each and every one is an example of giving a preference to one segment of your market.

Hm... the thing is, what you have listed are mixed, not every last one is segmenting the market. Programs that would exclude anyone interested, yes I would be opposed to. Most frequent buyer programs out there now anyone can take advantage of. In most cases you only need to acqure some kind of usually free card to use them, which are usually offered every time you complete a sale, thru pamphlets on the counters, and so on. The opportunity is there. My company does offer discount coupons. But they are offered to everyone, on the counters, in the orders, in media ads, on our website, basically anyplace we can provide them, short of being litter, we do. The opportunity is there too. And I don't think very highly of specific market advertising, such as those envelopes full of local coupons. Mostly a waste of money and paper. Limited time sales, which just about every major store chain does, are also open to everyone, they just have time limits, not excluding anyone. The opportunity is there, too.

This is something where the opportunity is being purposely restricted to achieve a very specific result, and I don't like the way they went about it. In his last speech onboard Jim Lewis said 'Would you all like to do this again?', which, of course got a very resounding cheer. He said that knowing full well what was going to be sprung on everyone there less than a week later. They purposely held off saying so until the bulk of the people there were back home where they couldn't confront DVC directly on this. They did that to avoid the negative feedback that is happening right now.
They didn't want to take the responsibility for their actions, and answer the hard questions. I would be surprised if anyone who wrote them or contacted them gets back anything more than some kind of form written in-denial response, maybe even something as cold as quoting the contract.

I have had that happen to me. I bought in on tickets to Chicagoland Speedway, even before it was completed. After a few times attending there were some bad experiences. In providing polite feedback to the speedway on these all I recieved back was a very cold form letter informing me of my 'rights', which basically said I had none except to the seat I was sitting in. The lack of courtesy was, honestly, appalling. I did cancel them and even then was harassed by the person contacted in doing so. If DVC continues this rather harsher route they could easily be in for some people jumping ship (pardon the pun) to other point based timeshares out there.

 

[Melrosgirl]

I can't believe there is a 4 page thread about this.

 

[Scratch42]

I can't believe there is a 4 page thread about this.

Believe it!

It's happening!

j

 

[calypso*a*go-go]

I agree with many of the previous posts...they (DVC) just want "fresh meat". It is obvious to me now that the Member Cruise was never meant to be some type of reward, just a marketing tool. They have discovered that the same people are going on each cruise and have no intentions of buying add-on contracts @ SSR. For pete's sake, if anyone was going to, they've had more than enough opportunities through the Friends/Family promos. without having the added expense of a cruise to do it.

I think those of you that have attended the past cruises and have developed friendships with other members should just start e-mailing each other and find a common date to create your own member cruise. Let's see, what would the benefits be: lower prices, more ports-of-call, not worrying about hurricanes, etc. Many of you are in the travel industry and could probably book a group of cabins and arrange for private venues. Don't let the powers-that-be at DVC rain on your parade!

 

[Sammie]

I happen to work for a rather successful local one that holds that same outlook, one of the main reasons I enjoy working there. From the guy who sweeps the floors to the highest job position in the office, everyone's treated the same positive way and anything that's done in the company is open to all. And that also extends to the customer. All are treated equal there, no matter how much or how little buisness they've done with us, all are treated and given the same opportunites and the same perks, and it has served us very well.

Are they all paid the same from the guy that sweeps the floor to the highest position in the office, if not, everything is not equal.

Your business has decided that it's in thier best business interest to pay some more than others. Disney has decided that it is in their best business interest to have the guests that have not been on a cruise to book first.

I can understand not agreeing with it, but it is their right to do this.

Any kind of exclusion or setting one segment of the members over another is just plain wrong

So you are not in favor of the Home Resort booking advantage.

 

[dumbo71]

My feel is that DVC is taking a turn in a direction that I don't like it to be going. If this is the wave of the future, along with the hard sell approach to existing members, I'm not sure this is the type of membership I care to be a part of anymore.

I agree. Add to this the dummying down of the menus at the restaurants, cold pools, less than magical service and you have to wonder about the future of DVC and WDW.

I'm on the fence right now but I can tell you I'm leaning towards the side of the fence that is selling the rest of my points. I could always rent when I want a DVC stay.

 

[#1Mouse]

I agree with many of the previous posts...they (DVC) just want "fresh meat". It is obvious to me now that the Member Cruise was never meant to be some type of reward, just a marketing tool. They have discovered that the same people are going on each cruise and have no intentions of buying add-on contracts @ SSR. For pete's sake, if anyone was going to, they've had more than enough opportunities through the Friends/Family promos. without having the added expense of a cruise to do it.

I think those of you that have attended the past cruises and have developed friendships with other members should just start e-mailing each other and find a common date to create your own member cruise. Let's see, what would the benefits be: lower prices, more ports-of-call, not worrying about hurricanes, etc. Many of you are in the travel industry and could probably book a group of cabins and arrange for private venues. Don't let the powers-that-be at DVC rain on your parade!

That's exactly what some of us are doing. I have been on the 3 Member Cruises and realized it was the friends I met from the DIS that made my cruise special, not DVC.

Here's one for the "fresh meat" stratagy. We did an add on during this past cruise, but we didn't on our 1st or 2nd Member cruise. Also, the 2 couples we had dinner with also added on this cruise and they were repeat Member Cruisers. So if DVC's thought is that new Member Cruisers might be the ones that are more likely to purchase an add on - it's way off base.

 

[Pluto 2]

i have never been on the dvc cruise, i have never tried to go its at a bad time, but it definetly does not seem fair.
what they need to do is to have more then one dvc cruise a year.
they could have about three or four a year would be nice. to give more dvc members a chance to go. then if for some strange reason they do not fill up open it up to other people around the 6 month mark. lets say you have 4 dvc member cruises a year, if you are having a hard time filling them up then the next year you have three.

 

[MarkRG]

Are they all paid the same from the guy that sweeps the floor to the highest position in the office, if not, everything is not equal.

Your business has decided that it's in thier best business interest to pay some more than others. Disney has decided that it is in their best business interest to have the guests that have not been on a cruise to book first.

I can understand not agreeing with it, but it is their right to do this.

That's not exactly an accurate comparison. More like they are paid according to their job skills. But I was talking any kind of extras, which a Member event certainly is, such as company parties, special items such as the company has custom logoed polos, sweaters, jackets, etc. And they are provided equally to everyone.

So you are not in favor of the Home Resort booking advantage.

Again, not exactly an accurate comparison. The home resort booking advantage is about free choice, not setting one member above another. Everyone has an 11 month booking window someplace. You choose which resort to buy into. So, by that choice decide here you want to be able to book at the 11 month window. I chose Boardwalk and Vero, those are two places I have been and will continue to be booking at mostly. It was my choice, not DVC making it for me, as it has been for the next Member Cruise.

 

[MarkRG]

i have never been on the dvc cruise, i have never tried to go its at a bad time, but it definetly does not seem fair.
what they need to do is to have more then one dvc cruise a year.
they could have about three or four a year would be nice. to give more dvc members a chance to go. then if for some strange reason they do not fill up open it up to other people around the 6 month mark. lets say you have 4 dvc member cruises a year, if you are having a hard time filling them up then the next year you have three.

And I agree. When asked by the marketing team on previous cruises we have told them this. Have two cruises. A 4-day for the people who havn't cruised before and another, preferably longer, for the repeaters. The reason I say longer, once you take a 4-day you will find very quickly it is short, possibly too short for more than a first time trip.

 

[MarkRG]

I think those of you that have attended the past cruises and have developed friendships with other members should just start e-mailing each other and find a common date to create your own member cruise. Let's see, what would the benefits be: lower prices, more ports-of-call, not worrying about hurricanes, etc. Many of you are in the travel industry and could probably book a group of cabins and arrange for private venues. Don't let the powers-that-be at DVC rain on your parade!

Some are doing that. We're looking at booking a 7-day in June of 08 already. For me one of the special things about the DVC cruises has been the special entertainment they have brought onboard. Where can you go where you can attend presnetations by the likes of Roy Disney, or, Jodi Benson, or Art Linkletter? Take special tours with one of the Imagineers who was heavily involved in the building of the Wonder, giving a very intimate description of aspects of the construction of the ship that you would never know otherwise? He virtually bought you there, to Fincantieri, where the ship was built. The regular 7 day cruises, while longer which I like, and can be fun, this is one of the main reasons I prefer to go on the DVC cruises over a regular 4 or 7 day.