Drug testing and the workplace....

[jodifla]

I'm against drug testing. It's a privacy violation.

Exceptions I can see: If you are working with drugs, or driving, or working with hazardous material, or working with children.

 

[Geoff_M]

are there really that many false positives and if so, what causes those?

There are any number of over-the-counter medicines that can trigger a false positive. For example, if you take Ibuprofen (Advil, Motrin, Nuprin, etc.) it can trigger a positive for pot. Most OTC cough & cold medicines (Nyquil, Robitussin, Sudafed) can make it look like you use amphetamines, or Ecstasy, or opiates. Even Amoxicillin or tonic water can cause positives for cocaine! The first thing they do when you test positive is start asking you questions about things you might have taken or eaten that was the reason for the result.

 

[bumbershoot]

oops, I meant to type "can't".

OK that makes more sense.

You know, all I could think of was an ex boyfriend, who was a stoner extraordinaire on his off times, but was a paraprofessional working with preschoolers with issues for his job. He was a spectacular employee, he loved those little kids and they adored him. He was very lucky (actually quite a lot of the local school district is lucky) that they didn't do drug testing. His use of that one drug caused no problems with his job, he was always 100% fabulous with the little ones.

Can you imagine your family member being left in pain because the nurse was signing for their meds and stealing them instead of administering them to the patient? How horrible.

It was only Tylenol, so I think it was just laziness or the nursing home charging for things but not giving them to save money, but once my grandmother was moved to hospice care, they did a re-evaluation of everything including her pain levels (she was in advanced Alzheimers and didn't talk anymore), they discovered that she hadn't been given anything for pain in years. It was in her charts, a certain number of "lightweight" pain relievers a day, but there was no indication she had ever been given one, and no one could remember seeing her get one. Once they figured out that she seemed to be in pain, and started giving her the OTCs, her indicators of pain disappeared and she seemed much happier. Guess the nursing home figured since she couldn't talk she couldn't tell on them.

 

[WonderfulDreamer2]

Do you work in a hospital, or someplace else? Do you guys use a Pyxxis machine? One of the SNFs I used to deliver to used a Pyxxis, but only as the E kit. The others all had E kits that were kept locked in a cabinet and only the charge nurse had the key. That only protects the E kits, though; all regularly prescribed meds were kept in the med cart, and the only check was a ledger they had to initial as they gave meds, and periodic med counts. I heard a lot of stories about nurses getting caught signing for meds that they didn't actually give to patients. Can you imagine your family member being left in pain because the nurse was signing for their meds and stealing them instead of administering them to the patient? How horrible.

I work in a hospital on a post operative 23 hour stay unit so we give very few scheduled drugs. We do have a locked cabinet for po antibiotics and such but most of our drugs are kept in the pyxxis system, include premeasured syringes of 10ml saline flush. Of course, it's also a good way to keep up with inventory as pharmacy is alerted when we start running low. There are days I push more Morphine, Valium and pass out Lortab and Percocet than you could believe. I remember the old days when I first graduated when there was a locked box that you just signed a sheet for what you removed and pharmacy changed out that box daily. It was just so easy. I dated a guy who worked with me whose mom lost her license due to stealing drugs from her patients/med box. And no. I can't imagine leaving a patient in pain for that. I've been the nurse and the patient and the patient part sucks a lot more than the nurse part ever could.

 

[WonderfulDreamer2]

There are any number of over-the-counter medicines that can trigger a false positive. For example, if you take Ibuprofen (Advil, Motrin, Nuprin, etc.) it can trigger a positive for pot. Most OTC cough & cold medicines (Nyquil, Robitussin, Sudafed) can make it look like you use amphetamines, or Ecstasy, or opiates. Even Amoxicillin or tonic water can cause positives for cocaine! The first thing they do when you test positive is start asking you questions about things you might have taken or eaten that was the reason for the result.

Maybe it's because of the line of work I'm in, but any time I've been asked to submit a drug test (and I've never had to except for pre-employment) I had to bring the actual prescription bottle with me of any medication I was taking and then list any OTC meds I had taken over the past 30 days including supplements and herbs. Due to a few meds I take, I show up positive for something really weird. Even the Employee Health Nurse didn't know what it was. Once the compared it to the bottles and info I had given them, there was never a problem. Now, I have to tell you I've been told you would have to eat about a bucket of poppy seeds to have even a hint of a positive for opium. And I've honestly never heard of any antibiotic or tonic water that would show positive for cocaine. I'm thinking there is some urban ledgend stuff going on here. But, I've been wrong before and could be now. I pass out the drugs, not take them so I'm not up on what causes what.

 

[Michelle67]

A friend of mine got fired this year because her prescription meds showed up as something weird. Can't remember what for the life of me. She should have fought it, and probably would have won, but she was so humiliated and angered by the way she was treated that she decided she wouldn't want to work there anymore anyhow. For example there was some comment made about how when they had called to tell her she had come up positive they could tell that she was "obviously impaired" during the phone conversation. Ummm, actually she had worked grave and they called her about an hour after she got to sleep. Yeah, I'd sound pretty "impaired" too! She reacted in anger and didn't fight it, but now she is sorry because she has to worry about it on reference checks.

 

[LisaB]

Now, I have to tell you I've been told you would have to eat about a bucket of poppy seeds to have even a hint of a positive for opium. And I've honestly never heard of any antibiotic or tonic water that would show positive for cocaine.

About the poppy seeds that is absolutely not true 1 poppy seed muffin can do it. I am not sure about tonic water but do know about some meds causing a false positive for cocaine and there are so many meds that so up false positive for amphetamines.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

OK that makes more sense.

You know, all I could think of was an ex boyfriend, who was a stoner extraordinaire on his off times, but was a paraprofessional working with preschoolers with issues for his job. He was a spectacular employee, he loved those little kids and they adored him. He was very lucky (actually quite a lot of the local school district is lucky) that they didn't do drug testing. His use of that one drug caused no problems with his job, he was always 100% fabulous with the little ones.


It was only Tylenol, so I think it was just laziness or the nursing home charging for things but not giving them to save money, but once my grandmother was moved to hospice care, they did a re-evaluation of everything including her pain levels (she was in advanced Alzheimers and didn't talk anymore), they discovered that she hadn't been given anything for pain in years. It was in her charts, a certain number of "lightweight" pain relievers a day, but there was no indication she had ever been given one, and no one could remember seeing her get one. Once they figured out that she seemed to be in pain, and started giving her the OTCs, her indicators of pain disappeared and she seemed much happier. Guess the nursing home figured since she couldn't talk she couldn't tell on them.

I bolded. There is no way in this world that I would want my child being taught by anyone who uses drugs- even if it is in their off time. YOU might think it didn't effect his job but I beg to differ. If he wasn't using drugs in his off time maybe he would have been an even better teacher. Not flaming but if I knew of a teacher using drugs I would pull my kid from the school.

ETA- Most places that do ramdom drug testing or testing for employment have you fill out a questionaire that tells them of any meds you are on so they can take that into account. That will eliminate a false positive.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

I'm against drug testing. It's a privacy violation.

Exceptions I can see: If you are working with drugs, or driving, or working with hazardous material, or working with children.

I can see where you are coming from but don't you think that say a heroin addict is working at a bank. Wouldn't the company potentially be at a greater risk to hire someone who more than likely would need to steal to keep up their habit? Or perhaps become a danger to those around them? Drug users have unpredictable personalities and can be very strong when high. I would find it a matter of safety as well.
Drugs are illegal. I as an employer would not want someone working at my business that was engaging in illegal activities. YMMV.

 

[Todd&Copper]

I am an attorney for the federal government and we are subject to random drug tests. I have no problem with it. Presently, drugs are illegal*, and I think it is a reflection on your integrity (or lack thereof) if you continue to engage in illegal behavior while pledging to uphold the law.

*I am not making a judgment call on whether drugs should or should not be legal, just stating the facts as they presently exist.

 

[SC Minnie]

My one big issue with companies that DO drug test is that, Management was always exempt from it!

When our company started random drug testing they started with management and the corporate offices before pushing it out to the mills. There are many jobs in our mills than can be extremely dangerous if not deadly if you are impaired.

 

[Mom2Nick]

I think it depends on the occupation. If you could endanger someone else, then I think the employer should have the right to test you.

What about if you could endanger the company? IMO it's justified in every situation if the company feels it's necessary. High or drunk accountants have the potential to do a lot of damage to a company. It's not just about drunk/high salesmen driving a company car or a high forklift operator - kwim?

We have a brethalyzer in our office and have used it on more than a few occasions. Regardless of who you are and what position you hold in the company, you are expected to report for your job clean and sober period. If we suspect you are high or drunk we will test you, regardless of who you are and what position you hold in the company.

The difference between us and many other companys is that testing positive doesn't mean you are automatically fired. We will try our darndest to help you get clean and sober before you lose your job.

 

[Geoff_M]

Now, I have to tell you I've been told you would have to eat about a bucket of poppy seeds to have even a hint of a positive for opium.

No, I think what you're thinking of is that you have to eat about a bucket of poppy seeds to get an opiate "buzz". The muffin part is 100% true. The "myth" was featured on a Mythbusters episode and they confirmed that all it takes is one poppy seed laden muffin. Our occupational health office knew about the problem too. At the time I tested positive we still had our own in-house cafeteria that made their own baked goods on a weekly schedule (Tuesday was "nutty donut" day, Thursday was "sticky bun" day, etc.) One of the featured items was poppy seed muffins. Occupational health wanted them to stop making them because of all of the drug re-tests they were triggering, but the cafeteria management refused because they were so popular. So they reached a compromise... they moved "poppy seed muffin" day to Friday and stopped doing random testing on Fridays. This also had the effect of allowing the time over the weekend for the poppy seeds to clear people's systems before Monday when testing resumed.

You're got to remember that what drug testing looks for are traces of drug metabolites that remain in your system for days after you've used the drugs. Something like a poppy seed bagel or muffin are enough to provide such levels of metabolites for a period of time (though probably for a much shorter time than if you'd used morphine instead) that will trigger a false positive. IIRC, in the Mythbusters episode the effect lasted over 24 hours. In my case, I ate the muffin around 9 AM (at our normal "coffee break" time) and went in for testing later that day. My friends tried to warn me not to eat the muffin, but I laughed it off as an "urban legend" too and munched on.

And I've honestly never heard of any antibiotic or tonic water that would show positive for cocaine.

Remember that tonic water contains quinine. As for antibotics.... here's a list of causes, by drug type, from a company that offers drug tests:Link (scroll to the bottom). There may be a number of urban legends surrounding drug testing (like the one about a guy that uses the urine of his girlfriend while not knowing she's pregnant) and I'd discount some of the stuff you can find on "how to pass your drug test" web sites, but when the folks selling the tests reference it, I think it's a lot more believable.

 

[LukenDC]

My employer conducts pre-employment drug testing. As HR director, it was my responsibility to develop and implement the drug testing program.

At first I was opposed to it because it seemed an affront to human dignity to have to give a urine sample before employment. My view has evolved over the years, however, and not one prospective employee has complained about the process or the requirement.

We are very upfront about the drug testing requirement at every stage of the recruitment process. All of our employment ads state that employment is contingent upon a pre-employment drug test and we have an announcement about the drug tests in our application. I am surprised and annoyed by the drug users who still go through the process, wasting our time, knowing full well that they will fail the drug test.

 

[lillygator]

What about if you could endanger the company? IMO it's justified in every situation if the company feels it's necessary. High or drunk accountants have the potential to do a lot of damage to a company. It's not just about drunk/high salesmen driving a company car or a high forklift operator - kwim?

We have a brethalyzer in our office and have used it on more than a few occasions. Regardless of who you are and what position you hold in the company, you are expected to report for your job clean and sober period. If we suspect you are high or drunk we will test you, regardless of who you are and what position you hold in the company.

The difference between us and many other companys is that testing positive doesn't mean you are automatically fired. We will try our darndest to help you get clean and sober before you lose your job.

wow a breathalyzer? what kind of company?

 

[Mom2Nick]

wow a breathalyzer? what kind of company?

Manufacturing and Distribution company. Our warehouse workers are driving forklifts, our assembly people are working with 480 volt systems, our production and lab crew are working with hazardous materials and we have salesmen and drivers using company vehicles.

 

[Muffin]

I wasn't hired for a job that I really, really wanted a few years ago due to testing positive for opiates in the pre-employment drug test.

I had eaten 3-4 poppyseed muffins over the 3-4 days leading up to and including the day of the test.

Anyone who says poppyseeds won't cause a false positive is ignorant.

 

[mamacatnv]

We have a mandatory post accident drug and alcohol screening process.
However a positive does not mean termination. In the event of a positive the screening company contacts the employee to discuss the possibility of OTC or RX drug conflict before they ever contact us. We don't get results until the results are uncontested and verified.

Mgmt. reserves the right to make the call in regards to continuing employment.

In the event of being under the influence of alcohol, it is most likely the person will be placed on leave and offered some sort of treatment plan thru the company health plans.

In the event of a controlled substance other than marijuana - the person would most likely be terminated but given the option of seeking treatment and then the possibility of being rehired.

In the event of marijuana the person would be warned and then subject to follow up testing at a later date. Marijuana is tricky, it is darn near impossible to prove "under the influence" and thus we are more lenient when it comes up. However, our state is a zero tolerance state and we have the right to terminate if we choose.

 

[ChrizJen]

My one big issue with companies that DO drug test is that, Management was always exempt from it!

As far as the legal issue, let the cops figure that out. It is not a employers responsibility to play "Big Brother". Employers hire you to do a job, thats all that they should focus on.

Should employers also look into everbodies lives to see if they pay taxes? Murder? Drive too fast?

Well, where I work, we also do background checks. We will not hire anyone with a felony conviction. So in a way, we're already doing that too.

I personally have no problem with pre-employment and /or random drug screening. I have nothing to hide, so they can test away!! But I can also see the point of view that what a person does in his/her own free time is his/her own business. As long as you're not actually under then influence while you're at work, do I really have the right to punish you for what you did last weekend?

 

[Mouse House Mama]

Well, where I work, we also do background checks. We will not hire anyone with a felony conviction. So in a way, we're already doing that too.

I personally have no problem with pre-employment and /or random drug screening. I have nothing to hide, so they can test away!! But I can also see the point of view that what a person does in his/her own free time is his/her own business. As long as you're not actually under then influence while you're at work, do I really have the right to punish you for what you did last weekend?

Well if it is still in your system one can argue that you are still under the influence.