Drinking age

I thought he was saying the drinking age in the US used to be 18, and is now 21.

OP, I think lowering the drinking age takes some of the "forbidden fruit" away and would help cut down on binge drinking in HS and college.

I've always told my kids if they're out at a restaurant, they are more than welcome to try some of my drink.
This is my stance too. I feel like making it 18 would decrease binge drinking in college especially. I remember when I went to Ireland when I was around 18-19 for a study abroad program and my roommate would drink 1 bottle of vodka a day as if she were drinking a carton of milk. Other kids partied ridiculously hard every night and would come to class hungover.
 
This is my stance too. I feel like making it 18 would decrease binge drinking in college especially. I remember when I went to Ireland when I was around 18-19 for a study abroad program and my roommate would drink 1 bottle of vodka a day as if she were drinking a carton of milk. Other kids partied ridiculously hard every night and would come to class hungover.
I don't think 18 does enough though. 18 is (generally) when you're going to college and have new found freedom as it is. Make it 13 and then it's not as much a big deal when you get to 16 (driving age) or 18 (out on "your own").

Again, just my theory.
 
This is my stance too. I feel like making it 18 would decrease binge drinking in college especially. I remember when I went to Ireland when I was around 18-19 for a study abroad program and my roommate would drink 1 bottle of vodka a day as if she were drinking a carton of milk. Other kids partied ridiculously hard every night and would come to class hungover.
Yeah - that's because they started at 14 in the park drinking a 2-liter bottle of cider that was at 8%.
Also the Alchopops.
Ireland is a bit of a different case than the rest of Europe as far as alcohol IMO - it was a big part of the culture for a long time. Irish Wake is just drinking. An American wake was lots of drinking - this is back when people came to the states and would probable never come back. Irish wedding drinking is a whole different experience.
This explains it pretty well -

And yeah - I've seen the crazy vodka drinking as well - pretty much drink a pint of it before going out at 10PM for a drink back when the pubs closed at 11.
 
The BAC is another interesting piece to throw into the mix. In the US, the drinking age is 21 (presumably to curb youth drinking) but the legal limit is .08 for driving purposes. Yet, in Western Europe where the drinking age is lower, the threshold for being impaired is also lower. In much of Western Europe it's .05 and in Central and Eastern Europe, it can range from 0.0 to .03 BAC depending on country. I also notice that there is a plethora of options for non-alcoholic beer here and they actually taste good, whereas I don't see as many brands in America. Very interesting.
Funny you mention non-alcoholic beers. We were in a liquor store for the first time in a couple of years and were amazed how many different brands they have.
 

Yeah - that's because they started at 14 in the park drinking a 2-liter bottle of cider that was at 8%.
Also the Alchopops.
Ireland is a bit of a different case than the rest of Europe as far as alcohol IMO - it was a big part of the culture for a long time. Irish Wake is just drinking. An American wake was lots of drinking - this is back when people came to the states and would probable never come back. Irish wedding drinking is a whole different experience.
This explains it pretty well -

And yeah - I've seen the crazy vodka drinking as well - pretty much drink a pint of it before going out at 10PM for a drink back when the pubs closed at 11.
Oh, these were American kids that were doing the study abroad with me, not local Irish people. This was the first time many of these kids were tasting alcohol.

My roommate would drink vodka for breakfast too. The sight of it still haunts me.
 
I never had issue affording my liquor when I was 18.

And I have no issues with taxes on luxury items like alcohol and tobacco to help fund things like our healthcare system
I always had to bring the legal limit of alcohol with me when I went to visit family.
Yes, have to pay for that healthcare
 
Oh, these were American kids that were doing the study abroad with me, not local Irish people. This was the first time many of these kids were tasting alcohol.

My roommate would drink vodka for breakfast too. The sight of it still haunts me.
Well if its with OJ or Tomato Juice its ok..

And the Irish kids - yeah they drink that way as well tbh
 
/
She would pour it into cereal, eat the cereal and then drink the vodka from the bowl as if it was milk. If that isn't the peak college drinking experience, then I don't know what is.
Ok - yeah that is a bit much and maybe an intervention is warranted in that case.

That even bothers me - which is saying a lot.
 
The drinking age moved from 18 to 21 while I was in high school, and it had an impact on the number of kids killed in drinking and driving car accidents. This is fact, not opinion. In the class one year above me, 5 kids were killed in a single year; that was a 'specially bad year ... most years it was 1-3 kids. It was only one kid in my grade ... Scotty; I remember we took swim lessons together when we were kids. One of my cousins was killed in a drinking and driving car accident. In the classes younger than mine, most years it was zero. Removing easy access to alcohol made a big difference.
 
IDK my mom used to talk about the parties my grandma would host for her and her friends with drunk kids passed out on the lawn right around when it was changed from 18 to 21. I'm not sure that image is what people think of with a lower age.

I think the attitude to alcohol is a primary reason we here in the U.S. have a different mentality towards it. Here, with prohibition and still commonly held views on alcohol it's for lack of a better term a sin. Kids would drink regardless of the age simply because it's viewed as taboo not because of some age. Make it 16 and you'd probably have earlier drinking than you do now just because of the taboo nature to it.

Regardless I'm not so sure it's admirable to discuss how low some of the countries are in Europe or lack of an age itself given how much alcohol some countries drink. When you have to have a national campaign about lowering your weekly drinking for health reasons you might have a problem ;) (ahem check out Truth About Alcohol documentary regarding the UK)
 
I was out of high school and around 19 when the drinking age was changed in my state from 18 to 21. I was "grandfathered" in but if I went to other states where the drinking age had been 21, I fell under those rules.

That said, prior to 18 (high school), we did all our "forbidden" drinking, which wasn't much but we got by here and there. Once in college and turning 18, it was just a fact of life and we went to clubs/bars and drank what would be considered normal--it just wasn't much of a thing.

When the drinking aged increased to 21, that's when I started to see the change at the college level. You couldn't drink out at a club or much in public, so people started to get older students to get them liquor (as we did in high school) but started "pre-gaming" in the dorms so they could have a full-on buzz before they went out in public. There were not parents around or anyone else to monitor that, so it really kind of morphed into this binge-drinking culture that I think wasn't really there until the age change.

That said, there are facts that increasing the age did decrease alcohol-related deaths in the under 21 population.
 
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Many families in the U.K. allow their children to have a sip of wine or beer growing up and as they get older a glass of wine with a meal at home. Over 16s are allowed to have one glass of wine or beer when eating in a restaurant with adults. And it’s a rite of passage here for young men to be taken to the pub for a beer when they reach 18. A lot of teenagers don’t like their first tastes of beer/ales or wine. Alcopops and cocktails that mask the taste and quantity of spirits are the real danger I think.
My dear Grandmother used to give me little bottles of snowball and babycham with a straw at Christmastime, because she didn’t realise that they contained alcohol.😂 Babycham used to have a picture of a fawn (Bambi) on the label.
 
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That said, there are facts that increased the age did decrease alcohol-related deaths in the under 21 population.
Yeah no doubt, and agree with most of what you said.

I was not grandfathered in, but we had no issue getting alcohol at all - not being able to get into clubs and bars was the bigger issue.

I also think that the general attitude about drunk driving also changed.
It was tolerated for the most part for adults.
Police would let people go unless they were really bad and even that it was take them home or to the station to sleep it off. Depended on the town and if it was the state police, but still not like today.

Anyway - I don't see it going down.

And it’s a rite of passage here for young men to be taken to the pub for a beer when they reach 18. A lot of teenagers don’t like their first tastes of beer/ales or wine. Alcopops
Yeah those Alcopops were a big problems - they were talking about banning them at one point.

Taking my kid for a pint of Guinness at 18 was a big deal no doubt. That was in Ireland and then we did the same thing at 21 here in the states.
 
It also depends on the establishment. They can choose not to serve minors even with parents. I live in Wisconsin I was out to dinner with my daughter when she was in college and she ordered a drink but they refused to serve it to me for her.

On the other hand, her sorority knew all the places to go on mom’s and dad’s weekends lol.
The establishment should absolutely have the choice to serve whomever they'd like. But you may have also fallen afoul of the fact that your daughter was in college so presumably over 18. An adult and not covered under the child alcohol laws in WI. Many of my wife's classmates had the same issue. When they were 17 they could have beer at the bar with their parents, but once they turned 18 they couldn't.
 
The establishment should absolutely have the choice to serve whomever they'd like. But you may have also fallen afoul of the fact that your daughter was in college so presumably over 18. An adult and not covered under the child alcohol laws in WI. Many of my wife's classmates had the same issue. When they were 17 they could have beer at the bar with their parents, but once they turned 18 they couldn't.
Yeah the whole legal liability part can get dicey. If she's a minor being provided alcohol by her parents her parents are liable but once that person is considered an adult the liability falls on them as an individual and since they are not able to legally drink yet it becomes the weird time period.

My state also allows alcohol strictly limited to CMB (cereal malt beverage which is 3.2%). "(g) Subsection (a) shall not apply to the furnishing of cereal malt beverage by a parent or legal guardian to such parent's child or such guardian's ward when such furnishing is permitted and supervised by the child's or ward's parent or legal guardian." But it's all in the context of minor/not minor.
 
Many families in the U.K. allow their children to have a sip of wine or beer growing up and as they get older a glass of wine with a meal at home.
This is allowed in at least some states. I know in MA parents can allow their underage children to drink at home/in private. My parents were fairly lenient and let my sisters and I try some alcoholic drinks at home and family events. The kids with strict parents who didn't allow any alcohol at home were more likely to be the crazy binge drinkers when they got out on their own in college or to sneak around with friends at home and get into trouble.
 
It's uniformly 21 to purchase alcohol in the United States. However, I believe some states where a parent or legal guardian can legally provide alcohol to a minor. Might depend on the age of the recipient too.

https://drinkingage.procon.org/states-that-allow-underage-under-21-alcohol-consumption/

Some of the more interesting exceptions would be for "educational purposes". But the one I noticed was for a specific degree program in hotel/culinary/brewing/wine management/production. I took a 1.5 unit survey course on wine and I don't believe that qualifies. The prof actually owned a winery and offered tours, although I wasn't 21 at the time.
 
Yeah the whole legal liability part can get dicey.
Regardless of age the whole liability thing is a nightmare TBH.

A lot is put on the bartender, and then refusing to serve someone can get them in trouble with the owner etc.. especially if its a regular.
The owner should always back up the bartender, but the don't always.

I've seen cases where someone came into a bar already drunk from a bar that kicked them out, ordered a drink and left, had an accident and the last bar they had a drink at is responsible.

In the case of DUI it also goes counts against the bar that last served them and has no idea they have been out drinking before hand. Its not always obvious in that initial interaction.

It's uniformly 21 to purchase alcohol in the United States.
That is a good thing for the most part - regardless of what age they pick.
It was too easy to go to a neighboring state that was still 18 way back when.
I think you can still go to Canada at 18 - but even if you live near the border thats not so easy as the next state over.
 
IDK my mom used to talk about the parties my grandma would host for her and her friends with drunk kids passed out on the lawn right around when it was changed from 18 to 21. I'm not sure that image is what people think of with a lower age.

I think the attitude to alcohol is a primary reason we here in the U.S. have a different mentality towards it. Here, with prohibition and still commonly held views on alcohol it's for lack of a better term a sin. Kids would drink regardless of the age simply because it's viewed as taboo not because of some age. Make it 16 and you'd probably have earlier drinking than you do now just because of the taboo nature to it.

Regardless I'm not so sure it's admirable to discuss how low some of the countries are in Europe or lack of an age itself given how much alcohol some countries drink. When you have to have a national campaign about lowering your weekly drinking for health reasons you might have a problem ;) (ahem check out Truth About Alcohol documentary regarding the UK)
Well, yes, that business about regarding alcohol as a sin is true in a large part of the US (most notably in the Bible Belt), but there are probably equally as many families and areas where it isn't regarded that way. And yes, a lot of *those* are in Irish-American communities, German-American communities, Italian-American communities, and Franco-American communities -- which, as it happens, are always where I've lived in the US (except for one year in Tulsa, where campaigns to quelch underage drinking were the most ubiquitous, FWIW.) Culturally, majority-Catholic and majority-Lutheran or Epicopalian US communities don't tend to view alcohol itself as a sin at all, and never did. Being an irresponsible drunken eejit, however, is another thing altogether, but I don't want to delve too deeply into religious topics. (I love Jarlath Regan, too, but he *is* a comic playing stereotypes for laughs.)

I'm not suggesting that it's OK to be that cool parent who throws juvenile keggers; I had a friend with a parent like that, too; one who was a pretty far-gone alcoholic as it happens. That's clearly endangering minors, and I'm fine with that being punishable. However, as parents we are supposed to model and teach our kids responsible consumption behaviors, and I think it's more difficult to do that with our underage alcohol service laws as strict as they currently are in much of the US, because by the time they can legally drink in most states, even at home, they are already old enough to be largely out from under our parental authority. I think allowing a parent to buy a teen a glass of wine or beer as part of a family meal in a restaurant should never be an issue, or buying them a beer if they are out at a ball game together, or allowing light consumption for our own teens at home. Knowingly letting your kids, or someone else's, get stinking drunk in your own home or out of it was never a responsible thing, and I can tell you that my Irish immigrant parents would never have done so, nor would any of my aunts and uncles. In fact, they never drank like that, either, not even at weddings or wakes (in our village at home we're a family who are known for being notoriously lightweight -- we have a tendency to get maudlin and start singing early on, LOL). I was taught to know my limit and try to stick to it, in or out of Ireland. (And yes, a few times when away at college I did overindulge, but I was well aware that I was impaired, and knew to stay away from car keys, firearms, sharp objects, and smooth-talking men until the next morning -- when, of course, I regretted the headache *and* the singing!) Binge drinking is definitely bad, but finding out just how bad for the first time at 2am in a public place when you are a young adult with no parent around to help take care of you is also pretty bad. As my mother often told me when I was that age, "A big part of growing up is learning to understand the concept of moderation, and it's my job to help you do that." As it happens, my own kids are not fond of alcohol; the older one abstains completely because he doesn't like the feeling of being buzzed, and the younger one has yet to find a drink that doesn't taste to her like vinegar or lighter fluid. We did/do let them have a drink at home under supervision if they wish, and our liquor supply (kept in an unlocked cabinet) has never been raided.

As for the girl with the vodka in her cereal, that's way beyond the bounds of normal, and even the realm of risky youthful experimentation. It sounds to me like she was a closet alcoholic who just took her habit out into the open when she found herself in a place where it wasn't illegal for her to drink.
 
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