Dose disney need to do free dining after posting higher numbers

[Q-man]

It is a very useful tool and WDW has ~22,000 on property rooms to fill. An empty room produces no revenue at all. Wonder how many of the annual guests are now DVC owners in the 4,000 DVC rooms that are in addition the 22,000 non-DVC rooms?

 

[disney david]

It is a very useful tool and WDW has ~22,000 on property rooms to fill. An empty room produces no revenue at all. Wonder how many of the annual guests are now DVC owners in the 4,000 DVC rooms that are in addition the 22,000 non-DVC rooms?

But the question is which brings in more money and free dining or discount rooms? Which get guest spending more and which coast them more per discount?

Are guest buying alcohol when they use their free dining or just taking he savings? For the third meal are they bring this town food or going grocery shopping and Disney not getting any of that money?

 

[Q-man]

But the question is which brings in more money and free dining or discount rooms? Which get guest spending more and which coast them more per discount?

Are guest buying alcohol when they use their free dining or just taking he savings? For the third meal are they bring this town food or going grocery shopping and Disney not getting any of that money?

First and foremost is filled rooms. You can never sell that night it sat empty ever again. It is gone. If you don't get them to the parks in the first place they won't be spending any money with you.

Different people respond to different things and/or have different decision making hierarchies and Disney has two very good tools to work with to fill the slow times. Any net positive is better than nothing at all.

Family size comes into the math too. Staying deluxe with 2 kids under 10 and 35% off the room is likely the better deal. 2 kids over 10 and staying at a moderate or value then 'free dining' math is likely in your favor. 2 adults and one young child? Then the room discount is likely the better choice. Family of 5 all over 10 and free dining is pretty much a slam dunk.

 

[disney david]

First and foremost is filled rooms. You can never sell that night it sat empty ever again. It is gone. If you don't get them to the parks in the first place they won't be spending any money with you.

Different people respond to different things and/or have different decision making hierarchies and Disney has two very good tools to work with to fill the slow times. Any net positive is better than nothing at all.

Family size comes into the math too. Staying deluxe with 2 kids under 10 and 35% off the room is likely the better deal. 2 kids over 10 and staying at a moderate or value then 'free dining' math is likely in your favor. 2 adults and one young child? Then the room discount is likely the better choice. Family of 5 all over 10 and free dining is pretty much a slam dunk.

Thanks so you think the moderates and deluxes should offer the same free dining. Or should the deluxe offer the regular plan and the moderates and value both offer the quick service plan. That way they could get more people to stay deluxe which brings in more money on the rate.

 

[Q-man]

Thanks so you think the moderates and deluxes should offer the same free dining. Or should the deluxe offer the regular plan and the moderates and value both offer the quick service plan. That way they could get more people to stay deluxe which brings in more money on the rate.

I'm just giving my breakdown of what the present system's math is for the consumer. I don't know that Disney needs to change anything. They've got years of data to make those decisions off of and two good tools to fill rooms during slower times.

Disney has also done a pretty good job of creating events to attract guests during off times; Flower and Garden, Food and Wine, Halloween and Christmas parties, Princess half marathon, StarWars weekends, etc.

IMO, Disney needs to maintain a few slow periods for maintenance and refurbishments while inconveniencing/disappointing as few guests as possible.

 

[disney david]

I'm just giving my breakdown of what the present system's math is for the consumer. I don't know that Disney needs to change anything. They've got years of data to make those decisions off of and two good tools to fill rooms during slower times.

Disney has also done a pretty good job of creating events to attract guests during off times; Flower and Garden, Food and Wine, Halloween and Christmas parties, Princess half marathon, StarWars weekends, etc.

IMO, Disney needs to maintain a few slow periods for maintenance and refurbishments while inconveniencing/disappointing as few guests as possible.

Once again thanks

It still my opinion that they should change the offer to a room discount. Because now people wait for free dining so they need to do something about that because it might be better to use something else for now then bring back free dining if needed.

 

[Q-man]

Once again thanks

It still my opinion that they should change the offer to a room discount. Because now people wait for free dining so they need to do something about that because it might be better to use something else for now then bring back free dining if needed.

Why do you think that? What makes you so sure room discounts are better for the bottom line than free dining is?

I've shown you the math that for a moderate if Disney can feed a room's worth of people 1 TS, 1CS, and 1 snack for a hard cost of less than $75 a day 'free dining' is better for Disney's bottom line than discounting a $250 room 30%($75) Also, free dining for deluxes is way better for Disney's bottom line than a 30% discount on a $450-600 room(that's $140 or more a nt). Because there is no way the hard cost for a room's worth of people for 1 TS, 1 CS, and 1 snack is $140 a day. Values is where free dining and the bottom line gets iffy for me. 15% discount of $150 is $22.50. Hard cost of 2 CS, and 1 snack for a room's worth of people for less than $22.50 a day? Ouch.

I'll also reiterate Disney's main competition for family vacation dollars are cruises and all inclusive properties and both of those include the food in the up front cost.

 

[disney david]

Why do you think that? What makes you so sure room discounts are better for the bottom line than free dining is?

I've shown you the math that for a moderate if Disney can feed a room's worth of people 1 TS, 1CS, and 1 snack for a hard cost of less than $75 a day 'free dining' is better for Disney's bottom line than discounting a $250 room 30%($75) Also, free dining for deluxes is way better for Disney's bottom line than a 30% discount on a $450-600 room(that's $140 or more a nt). Because there is no way the hard cost for a room's worth of people for 1 TS, 1 CS, and 1 snack is $140 a day. Values is where free dining and the bottom line gets iffy for me. 15% discount of $150 is $22.50. Hard cost of 2 CS, and 1 snack for a room's worth of people for less than $22.50 a day? Ouch.

I'll also reiterate Disney's main competition for family vacation dollars are cruises and all inclusive properties and both of those include the food in the up front cost.

Don't get so defensive it my opinion they don't need to offer free dining. yes you showed me math of Hilton and other hotels but we all don't know what DISNEYs operation coast for hotels vs ding locations what their expense on food and labor. Disney different they didn't always offer free dining but they offered room discount. When times got hard and need to et more people into the rooms and parks they offered free dining. My point is now they are doing better and making more money do they need to offer discounts.

I said room discount instead but really just mean do they need to offer free dining since they are getting more profit.

 

[Q-man]

Don't get so defensive it my opinion they dint need to offer free dining. yes you showed me math of Hilton and other hotels but we all don't know what disbwy operation coast for hotels vs ding locations what their expense on food and labor. Disney different they didn't always offer free dining but they offered room discount. When times got hard and need to et more people into the rooms and parks they offered free dining. My point is now they are doing better and making more money do they need to offer discounts.

I said room discount instead but really just mean do they need to offer free dining since they are getting more profit.

I'm not defensive. I'm just trying to figure how you're looking at this. It is a pretty simple equation to me. Which costs less to fill rooms, free dining or room discounts? In my experience in the hospitality industry the free dining is the cheaper way to do it.

In my opinion the rise of the cruise industry and all inclusive properties where dining is in the up front costs is the biggest cause.

 

[jcb]

Don't get so defensive it my opinion they don't need to offer free dining. yes you showed me math of Hilton and other hotels but we all don't know what DISNEYs operation coast for hotels vs ding locations what their expense on food and labor. Disney different they didn't always offer free dining but they offered room discount. When times got hard and need to et more people into the rooms and parks they offered free dining. My point is now they are doing better and making more money do they need to offer discounts.

I said room discount instead but really just mean do they need to offer free dining since they are getting more profit.

Actually, if you are talking about 2008-2009, WDW offered sharp room discounts to get folks into the parks. "Seven for Four" was one where folks got to stay seven days for the price of four. This was more than just room discounts, of course, but by the time you get past 4 days on a park admission ticket, additional cost to the consumer is pretty low so the real value was the room discount.

To answer your second point - why does Disney need to offer discounts? -I think they still see a fall off in attendance/spending in the fall period (September to mid-December) and feel free dining is the way to boost attendance. The fact that they are getting more profit simply means what they did in the past - which included "free" dining - worked (to some degree. But to keep the profit margins for the last quarter, the bean counters appear to think they have to have some kind of a promotion.

While I don't think Disney based its decision on the furor that would be caused if they didn't offer "free" dining, I think they realize "free" dining is now an expectation for the consumers who plan on attending in the fall months. I also think they realize it works to get folks into the park.

 

[disney david]

Actually, if you are talking about 2008-2009, WDW offered sharp room discounts to get folks into the parks. "Seven for Four" was one where folks got to stay seven days for the price of four. This was more than just room discounts, of course, but by the time you get past 4 days on a park admission ticket, additional cost to the consumer is pretty low so the real value was the room discount.

To answer your second point - why does Disney need to offer discounts? -I think they still see a fall off in attendance/spending in the fall period (September to mid-December) and feel free dining is the way to boost attendance. The fact that they are getting more profit simply means what they did in the past - which included "free" dining - worked (to some degree. But to keep the profit margins for the last quarter, the bean counters appear to think they have to have some kind of a promotion.

While I don't think Disney based its decision on the furor that would be caused if they didn't offer "free" dining, I think they realize "free" dining is now an expectation for the consumers who plan on attending in the fall months. I also think they realize it works to get folks into the park.

Thanks but they stop those discounts when they saw attendance go up and then offered free dining. My main point is how much longer do you think they will offer free dining soon they will have to stop.

 

[disney david]

I'm not defensive. I'm just trying to figure how you're looking at this. It is a pretty simple equation to me. Which costs less to fill rooms, free dining or room discounts? In my experience in the hospitality industry the free dining is the cheaper way to do it.

In my opinion the rise of the cruise industry and all inclusive properties where dining is in the up front costs is the biggest cause.

Listen my main point was do they still need to offer free dining. I brought up room discount when I should not have figured it be a good way to slowly get people off the free dining.

 

[jcb]

Thanks but they stop those discounts when they saw attendance go up and then offered free dining. My main point is how much longer do you think they will offer free dining soon they will have to stop.

"Stop" - probably not for a while.

But over the last several years (as someone previously pointed out), the "free" dining off is being cut back from what it was (e.g., more block out dates, having guests pay tips, counter service for value resorts). That is just the visible part of free dining; for all we know, WDW has also reduced the number of rooms that can be booked for free dining.

I expect WDW to keep scaling it back - to slowly "wean" (Disney's words) guests off of the promotion if at all possible.

 

[disney david]

I'm not defensive. I'm just trying to figure how you're looking at this. It is a pretty simple equation to me. Which costs less to fill rooms, free dining or room discounts? In my experience in the hospitality industry the free dining is the cheaper way to do it.

In my opinion the rise of the cruise industry and all inclusive properties where dining is in the up front costs is the biggest cause.

Before we continue this I need to know something you believe chip and dale are A list characters or B list.

 

[disney david]

"Stop" - probably not for a while.

But over the last several years (as someone previously pointed out), the "free" dining off is being cut back from what it was (e.g., more block out dates, having guests pay tips, counter service for value resorts). That is just the visible part of free dining; for all we know, WDW has also reduced the number of rooms that can be booked for free dining.

I expect WDW to keep scaling it back - to slowly "wean" (Disney's words) guests off of the promotion if at all possible.

Your last paragraph is what I am trying to ask but don't wright as good as you and have a hard time getting my point out. I wish I could wright as good as you so but so to some things I can't. Thanks jack like usual your the best.

 

[Q-man]

While I don't think Disney based its decision on the furor that would be caused if they didn't offer "free" dining, I think they realize "free" dining is now an expectation for the consumers who plan on attending in the fall months. I also think they realize it works to get folks into the park.

I would also think free dining is a better tool to keep you and your wallet on property instead of over at Universal than a room discount. It is difficult to get your free dining benefit if you're across town for the day.

 

[disney david]

I would also think free dining is a better tool to keep you and your wallet on property instead of over at Universal than a room discount. It is difficult to get your free dining benefit if you're across town for the day.

Well you could get free breakfast go to universal then come back and get free diner. And use you third meal at universal. While your right it most likely keeps people on property more then room discount. But don't think it will keep people from going to universal. You can get a ADR for late and early and have a good amount of time at universal.

 

[Q-man]

Before we continue this I need to know something you believe chip and dale are A list characters or B list.

No idea, but they are the involved in of many of our family's favorite WDW memories. Best character interaction there is. The kids are already asking if our pecan tree will produce nuts before our fall trip so they can take some to Chip and Dale. We have a great video of Dale dipping the youngest while dancing with her.