Dollywood dress code

[Ceila]

Duplicate, sorry.

 

[Ceila]

Crusoe2, it sounds to me as if you don't just have a problem with that t-shirt, but with anything that might cause children to ask questions about a gay couple. Your argument is that the shirt might prompt kids ask questions that you would rather answer "in private." However, a child might ask questions after seeing two men holding hands, or two women with their arms around each other. I hope you're not saying that you don't want to see displays of affection between gay couples, but that's how your posts are coming across.

As for how to respond to kids, depending on the age it is quite easy to explain that some couples are one man and one woman, some are two men, and some are two women. I've done this with my own kids and thankfully they have learned that when two people love each other it's a good thing.

 

[crusoe2]

We were at Sea World visiting the dolphin area once. It was mating time in the dolphin tank. Ohhhhh...the conversation that stemmed from that visit! I promised the kiddo that we'd talk about what we'd observed at a later time...he was satisfied with that!

I can just imagine. I've gotten lucky a time or two already about putting off that discussion until a better time. So far, DD has forgotten about it and it didn't come back up. I figured that just meant that she wasn't really that curious yet and maybe not ready for it.

 

[Buckalew11]

My .02 is this: talk to your kids when they are young and questions come up. Putting if off until you are in private is fine or back at your hotl room or whatever, but go ahead and talk about things appropriately. Kids grow up fast these days and learn about EVERYTHING under the sun at school and from friends. Very quickly, they'll stop asking you and learn from the wrong people. Often, once they get some answers from elsewhere, they are too embarrassed or whatever to ask mom and dad anymore.

Just my thoughts.

 

[MadtownMama]

I have no problem with the shirt and I don't believe that everyone who wears shirts with sayings such as those are "wanting attention". Maybe they are just a t-shirt wearer and that's what they pulled out of the closet. (I've caught myself doing that a few times, and was called out on why my shirt said "hooray for ****ies" and then felt like i had to explain why I was wearing such a shirt when honestly I just put no thought it was I was putting on that morning. It's a breast cancer shirt we purchased at a fundraiser).

I have no problem seeing that shirt worn in public, and as far as family enviroments, my daughter already knows that families come in all "different sizes". She has had friends with two mommies, have seen two boys holding hands/kissing walking down the street, etc. So it's just not a big deal to me.

With all that said, I will add that at Disney World my friend's husband had someone come up to him and tell him he had to turn his shirt inside out if he wanted to wear it. It read somethign about Undercover FBI agent on it.

 

[crusoe2]

Crusoe2, it sounds to me as if you don't just have a problem with that t-shirt, but with anything that might cause children to ask questions about a gay couple. Your argument is that the shirt might prompt kids ask questions that you would rather answer "in private." However, a child might ask questions after seeing two men holding hands, or two women with their arms around each other. I hope you're not saying that you don't want to see displays of affection between gay couples, but that's how your posts are coming across.

As for how to respond to kids, depending on the age it is quite easy to explain that some couples are one man and one woman, some are two men, and some are two women. I've done this with my own kids and thankfully they have learned that when two people love each other it's a good thing.

Not suggesting that at all - you are definitely reading something into my post that isn't there. As a matter of fact, we were at WDW during Gay Days this year and saw lots of gay couples and families. DD took little notice as far as I could tell and we definitely saw the hand-holding and couples with their arms around one another. So I think that just normal displays of affection, families with 2 moms or 2 dads, etc - that sort of thing probably isn't going to catch a kids attention in that setting. Not for long anyway. There's way too many other interesting things to hold their attention. But I do think she would have noticed a tee shirt slogan she didn't understand or heavy PDA (which I don't think is appropriate in public regardless of who you're doing it with). And I do think she would have pressed for a more in-depth explanation without realizing that it wasn't really the time or place to talk about it. I think the same would be true if she saw a curious tee shirt slogan on any subject matter.

 

[LIDisneyFan]

If the shirt had profanity or nudity I would say is was reasonable. Otherwise I think we (as a society) need to stop trying to be the 'word' police and the 'feelings' police. And people ned to stop pinning their own predjudices on "for the children's sake".

We are soon going to run out of letters (the n-word, the f-word, the c-word, the...) Actually, the f-word alredy means two different things.

Can you tell editing speech is a hot button with me? To me it is a slippery slope about what is offensive. I know a Christian who feels cross jewelry is offensive since it trivializes their religious beliefs.

Obviously Dollywood can do what they want.

 

[ChattaAlley]

Like I said, Dolly has a huge G/L following and she knows it and loves it. There isn't a doubt in my mind that Dolly meant "I love you too" when she mouthed that back. She is a good person with a huge heart (must be why she needs that big chest )

Dolly loans her name to the park. She isn't like Walt Disney with his park. Dollywood is owned by Herschend Family Entertainment. It used to be called Silver Dollar City.

Ha I have always known this Actually Dolly along with HFE owns Dollywood. Dolly became a co-owner in 1986 and the this part branched off and became park of The Dollywood Company. So yes Dolly does own Dollywood.

 

[luvmy3]

I have nothing against gays or gay marriage but I do take issue with people choosing what is supposed to be a family-friendly atmosphere to speak out for gay rights. My 8yo, like many others her age, doesn't know anything about sex or gay-anything yet. But seeing edgy tee shirt slogans that she doesn't understand will most likely lead to questions and waiting in line for an amusement park ride isn't where I want to have that conversation. I think that I have the right to choose the time and place for that and my child certainly has the right to learn about this subject in private.

So, while I support gay marriage, I think that the Dollywood employee did the right thing. That just isn't the time or the place.

Do you really think a person wearing a shirt that says "XYZ" takes away your right to educate your child the way you want because they may ask a question about it? How about just saying "I'll explain later, or when you are older, or whatever"

That's a little obtuse don't you think? Certainly it is possible that a parent might be able to explain what gay means without getting into the sexual part of it but I think it would be tricky. Gay is, afterall, about sexual orientation. A lot would depend on how much the child already knows and what questions happen to cross their mind during the course of the conversation. Bottom line, for me, is that my daughter deserves the courtesy of having that first conversation about sex (of any kind) in private so that she can feel comfortable asking any questions she wants and discussing the subject at length. Could turn out that she's perfectly comfortable with it and not embarrassed in the least. But she also may initially be uncomfortable with her new knowledge - many children are - and I don't want to compound that by having it happen in public.

When my kids first asked what being gay was all I said it was when a woman loves a woman, or a man loves a man. It was pretty easy to not mention anything about sex. If your child isn't even aware of what sex is, then there is no need to bring it up just because you are talking about gay people. Do you bring it up if your child asks about heterosexual people?
And, if your child is at an age where they understand what sex actually is anyway, then hearing about homosexuality is no big deal, unless of course you do have a problem with it.

 

[crusoe2]

Do you really think a person wearing a shirt that says "XYZ" takes away your right to educate your child the way you want because they may ask a question about it? How about just saying "I'll explain later, or when you are older, or whatever"



When my kids first asked what being gay was all I said it was when a woman loves a woman, or a man loves a man. It was pretty easy to not mention anything about sex. If your child isn't even aware of what sex is, then there is no need to bring it up just because you are talking about gay people. Do you bring it up if your child asks about heterosexual people?
And, if your child is at an age where they understand what sex actually is anyway, then hearing about homosexuality is no big deal, unless of course you do have a problem with it.

I think it is, or at least can be, a little more complicated to explain than that. Sometimes you can get away with such an easy explanation - depends on the child and the circumstances. But I could also see a child responding to that with the question "So since Daddy loves my brother, does that mean they're gay?" That could be a very logical train of thought to a kid. Explaining why the answer is no without discussing sex could be a little tricky. And could be something that child is not really ready to hear. That's at the heart of my point - all the in-your-face sex in our society sometimes forces a parent's hand on this topic. I find it ironic that so many people on these boards are adamant about a parent's right to raise their children as they see fit but will insist that an adult's right to publicly declare their sexual orientation anywhere they choose is more important than a parent's right to decide when their child is ready to know about that subject.

Anywho, I'll just have to agree to disagree for now. If I don't get off the Dis and go to the grocery store my family is going to mutiny.

 

[Uncle Remus]

I think it is, or at least can be, a little more complicated to explain than that. Sometimes you can get away with such an easy explanation - depends on the child and the circumstances. But I could also see a child responding to that with the question "So since Daddy loves my brother, does that mean they're gay?" That could be a very logical train of thought to a kid. Explaining why the answer is no without discussing sex could be a little tricky. And could be something that child is not really ready to hear. That's at the heart of my point - all the in-your-face sex in our society sometimes forces a parent's hand on this topic. I find it ironic that so many people on these boards are adamant about a parent's right to raise their children as they see fit but will insist that an adult's right to publicly declare their sexual orientation anywhere they choose is more important than a parent's right to decide when their child is ready to know about that subject.

Anywho, I'll just have to agree to disagree for now. If I don't get off the Dis and go to the grocery store my family is going to mutiny.

I do it for more important reasons than circumventin' your right to educate your child when you want.

 

[luvmy3]

I think it is, or at least can be, a little more complicated to explain than that. Sometimes you can get away with such an easy explanation - depends on the child and the circumstances. But I could also see a child responding to that with the question "So since Daddy loves my brother, does that mean they're gay?" That could be a very logical train of thought to a kid. Explaining why the answer is no without discussing sex could be a little tricky. And could be something that child is not really ready to hear. That's at the heart of my point - all the in-your-face sex in our society sometimes forces a parent's hand on this topic. I find it ironic that so many people on these boards are adamant about a parent's right to raise their children as they see fit but will insist that an adult's right to publicly declare their sexual orientation anywhere they choose is more important than a parent's right to decide when their child is ready to know about that subject.

Anywho, I'll just have to agree to disagree for now. If I don't get off the Dis and go to the grocery store my family is going to mutiny.

Yes, we defintely disagree, I have a hard time seeing the same thing.
To me there is no irony, the T-shirt wearer isn't educating your child or forcing your child to share their beliefs, they are just wearing a shirt expressing their own. You as the parent still have your right to raise your child as you see fit. While there are shirts that I find inappropriate for certain times/places, (like the F-word one at the Pooh movie) I don't in any way think that someone choosing to wear one is forcing me to raise my child any differently. I still have the choice/power to educate my child on the subject, or choose not to if I don't feel they are ready to learn about it.

And the whole not being able to discuss gay couples without mentioning sex to me is absurd. If you can talk about heterosexual couples and their relationships without talking about sex, you can do it when talking about homosexual couples just the same.

 

[PeterPan09]

I used to feel differently about what people wore to the parks-now I'm to a point that if it doesn't have the Seven Dirty Words You Can't Say On TV on it-I don't care. If your shirt says "I Hate (insert group/person here)" I think you should be asked to change. "Hate" is the 8th dirty word in my book.

If I wear a T-shirt proclaiming that I'm a Christian and you don't like it-oh well. It's who I am and I'm not hiding that in my drawer so you can feel better. I don't feel people should hide their convictions.

If the reason the shirt was banned from Dollywood was that it promoted gay marriage-then I'm not happy about that-but it is a privately owned place and they're allowed to ban what they want. I'm also free to not go there with my $$ if that's the case.

 

[PollyannaMom]

I think I'm with the park on this one. If they had asked the couple to leave, that would have been wrong, but asking (nicely) for the shirt to be turned over, was probably a way of trying to avoid the kind of ugly scene that might have occured between guests over it. That's what I see them as trying to protect families (all families) at the park from.

 

[IdesOmarch]

Like this one at Capital Pride:

That's a good one. My favorite ones are the ones that say, "I'm not Gay but my Boyfriend is" (For guys) Girls would read "I'm not Gay but my Girlfriend is" Well you get the idea. I love those.

 

[PeterPan09]

One more quick thing-IMHO someone wearing a t-shirt that defines their convictions is NOT saying that you must also be as they are. All it's saying is that they would like you to allow them to be who they are as they are allowing you to be who you are.

 

[Aisling]

One more quick thing-IMHO someone wearing a t-shirt that defines their convictions is NOT saying that you must also be as they are. All it's saying is that they would like you to allow them to be who they are as they are allowing you to be who you are.

I can't stand walking billboards. Just BE who you are, for Pete's sake.

 

[cassandrap83]

Here's where I get confused:

It's not PC, and it is considered a slur to say "That is so gay!" or "You're so gay" when talking about something that is "stupid". The same way it is not PC & also considered a slur to say "That is so retarded!" or "You're so retarded."

So, why is it okay to print these type of slurs on T-shirts? I understand that it is just a play on words, and it is pretty clever, but if we're going to say that it is inappropriate to say "That is so gay!" then it should be across the board. (gays & non-gays alike should not support this slur). It was bad taste by the person wearing the shirt, and I agree with the Dollywood employee for asking that it be turned inside out.
----------------------------------------
As far as people saying that they would prefer to not be put in a situation that could cause their children to ask questions...my response is this: Just tell your kids that sometimes boys have boyfriends & sometimes girls have girlfriends - everybody is different. And then, leave it at that. If you haven't had "the talk" with your child yet, then there is no need to go any further. If you have had "the talk", then shame on you for not presenting the whole picture.

 

[badcramps]

I think it is, or at least can be, a little more complicated to explain than that. Sometimes you can get away with such an easy explanation - depends on the child and the circumstances. But I could also see a child responding to that with the question "So since Daddy loves my brother, does that mean they're gay?" That could be a very logical train of thought to a kid. Explaining why the answer is no without discussing sex could be a little tricky. And could be something that child is not really ready to hear. That's at the heart of my point - all the in-your-face sex in our society sometimes forces a parent's hand on this topic. I find it ironic that so many people on these boards are adamant about a parent's right to raise their children as they see fit but will insist that an adult's right to publicly declare their sexual orientation anywhere they choose is more important than a parent's right to decide when their child is ready to know about that subject.

Anywho, I'll just have to agree to disagree for now. If I don't get off the Dis and go to the grocery store my family is going to mutiny.

This is the most farfetched explanation of why it is "hard" to tell kids that gay people exist that I've ever seen. (How in the world did you manage to tell your kids about the existence of straight people? Or should I assume that they don't know about them either?)

It sounds like you think kids are complete morons. (Gee, when you tell your kid that mommy loves grandma does she ask "does that mean mommy is going to marry grandma?" Are you seriously suggesting that a child cannot understand the concept of the kind of love that married people have and the kind that relatives have without explaining the many ways genitals can fit together? I assume your kid now understands that "when a man and a woman love each they get married." Has she ever asked why her father didn't marry her grandmother (his mother)--after all they are a man and a woman and they love each other!? Even if she did, I have no idea how explaining what sex is would help to answer that question. Would you explain that people who are related to each other don't usually want to jump each other's bones? Would you say that children are typically disgusted by thinking of their parents naked let alone thinking of having sex with them. Why oh why would you talk about sex in order to explain how daddy loves grandma but not in the "wants to marry her" kind of way????)

If you have issues with gay people (which clearly you seem to) why can't you just be honest about it?

Me--I'm sure I won't be able to shield my kids from knowledge of HETEROsexuals for very long. Every where you go heterosexual people are always out in the streets declaring that they love a member of the opposite sex, calling each other wives and husbands, saying they are married--and even putting babies in women's uteruses through sex--gasp!) I'll probably just have pop some hetero porn into the dvd player and say "see kids--that's what straight is and that's how babies get into straight people's stomachs--disgusting isn't it?"

 

[Wishing on a star]

Just popping back in here, and want to say:

Hey, let's not kid ourselves here... marriage may not be all about sex and/or sexuality. But, last I heard, the definition of the slang word 'GAY' relates to those who are physically and sexually attracted to members of the opposite sex.

Nobody can convince me that the word 'gay' in the most common usage ( which is no longer aanother word for 'happy' ) is not a sexual reference.

Same thing would go for the words hetero/straight, bi, etc... when referring to ones sexual orientation.

So, I just ain't buying that whole argument.

PS: I have used, or considered using, the words 'get a room' more than once. And, it was straight/hetero couples.

Anybody who is trying to justify and cloud the issues here by trying to twist the semantics of the word gay, I am not buying it.

And, again, Dollywood is well within their rights to ban whatever sexual or controversial, references that they wish. Nothing changes that....

All I am saying is that they had better have a VERY specific policy, in writing... and if it bans the reference to sexual orientation... That means it should also include shirts that say 'Adam and Eve - not - Adam and Steve.'

One's right to, so called, free speach does not extend to privately owned establishments such as DollyWood.
Nobody was denied access or service.

Even this couple, who seem to be enjoying their 15 minutes of fame just too darned much, know that they have no basis to claim that their rights were violated.